Tier 1 Enterpreneur point based leave to remain Refused

Hello,

Unfortunately my Leave to remain has been refused. I have been given an administrative review.from which i have no hope at all
As my solicitor have messed up my case. My case was very straighy for ward n geniunene. But our presentation was none. Plus my accountant didnt provide my RTI or FPS submission. On which the home office refused to. Onsider my employees worked.

2 allegations:-
As i have claimed 40 hours and home office is considering only 30 hours. Even though my employees have over worked. Dont know why they r not considering it.
My hours and time period for 2 full tim employees for 12 months is all complete.

And secondly they could find my investment of 280,000 but only 88,000 coroboration according to them was found.

I am planning to give a fresh application.
I have few questions:-
1) will they return all my docuements that i submitted in my first application? After admin review is refused? If they dont? How can i ask for it. As i havent made any copies of anything

2) Can i appeal in court? What kind of court is? What r different steps in which i can go in court?How much will it cost me? How much time will be taken?

3) if i win the case in court(whichever it is) will the Home office compensate me for the money i spent on court n all?

Many thanks

Hi Sogar

Sorry to hear that.
The list of documents is available in published guideline (dated 19/11) if your application has been submitted without Acceptable Evidence i.e. Printout of ‘Real Time’-Full Payment Submissions; a fresh application is advisable.

Have you submitted Audited or Un Audited Account(s) along with letter confirming your full investment as Un secure D/L & Director Loan Agreement Showing full amount as claimed?

Unfortunately my Leave to remain has been refused. I have been given an administrative review.from which i have no hope at all
As my solicitor have messed up my case. My case was very straighy for ward n geniunene. But our presentation was none. Plus my accountant didnt provide my RTI or FPS submission. On which the home office refused to. Onsider my employees worked.

2 allegations:-
As i have claimed 40 hours and home office is considering only 30 hours. Even though my employees have over worked. Dont know why they r not considering it.
My hours and time period for 2 full tim employees for 12 months is all complete.

And secondly they could find my investment of 280,000 but only 88,000 coroboration according to them was found.

I am planning to give a fresh application.
I have few questions:-
1) will they return all my docuements that i submitted in my first application? After admin review is refused? If they dont? How can i ask for it. As i havent made any copies of anything

2) Can i appeal in court? What kind of court is? What r different steps in which i can go in court?How much will it cost me? How much time will be taken?

3) if i win the case in court(whichever it is) will the Home office compensate me for the money i spent on court n all?

Many thanks

Hi Sogar,

Can you please mention what exactly Home Office says in there Rejection letter.
Home Office can't Reject the application saying that " One Full time employee has worked more than 30 hrs "
I'm Sure that is not the reason it may be because that you haven't submitted RTI or FPS ?
Second thing about Investment did you submit Share capital or Director's Loan ?
If it is in the form of Director loan you should've provided Director's Loan Agreement which should be unsecured and in favour of Third Party Creditors. Also it should reflect the Company Accounts saying Creditors : and amount company owe to you.
My Personal Request is please go through the Policy Guidance and understand what it says before you've applying for extension. If you're Genuine and Honest everything will be Fine if you make a Fresh Application.
Can you please share what are the document you have provided for the extension and What exactly Home office says in rejection letter so that other forum members can help you out

PS : I request you while posting any thing like this please try to elaborate things whether you are 200K or 50k Extension ?

Thank u for ur reply. I myself am applying for fresh application.

I have £200,000 enterpreneur route

The home office has said as follows:-
1) as evidence of this investment you have provided accounts, accountants letter , business bank statements, director loan , tax docuements and company house current appointment report.
From this evidence we r not satisfied that points can be awarded of this investment because you have not supplied the acceptable evidence as specified under Appendix A of the immigration Rules to establish the business in which you have in uk business because the investment is in the form of director loan and under paragraph 46-Sd (a) of immigration rule we require evidence of these funds in indentifiable transactions in your business bank statements. The amount as only of £88,000 was corroborated from your personal to business .
We have there fore unable to provide any points.

2)creation of job in uk:-
As evidence u have supplied: Accountants letter, P32, wage slips , P46, contracts , identity docuements.
The evidence showed a total of 3005 hours worked, the requirement of 3120 over a 24 month period was not met.

However no hours could be used as u didnot supply any RTI evidence. We require FBS submissions for each worker for every month they worked confirming earnings for that month and no evidence of the start-dates for new employee in question.
Additionally , no evidence as required was supplied to show employees before and after you joined the business.

This is the review of Home office.
Pls help
Thanks

For investment have you sent both personal bank statement investment transaction and business bank statement
Can u explain please

Yes i have sent all bank statements of personal n business showing the investment. And even bank statements of maintenance funds personal and bank statement.

How much fund those transactions covered because UkVI claimed £88000 only not 200k

I have invested £ 280,000.
Unfortuantely they could only corroborate £88,000.
I have even attached supporting docuements of these funds such as bank statements and bank letter confirming that these amounts came from personal to business account.
Plus accountant letter confirming these amounts have been invested.

I donot understand why they couldnt find any other amounts.


My second question is will they return me all previous originls docuements which i have given them on my previous applcations and in how many days.
So that i can apply for fresh applications?

And if admin review gets refused(for which i will apply by the end of this week, as i will again send them supporting evidence, which is not new, as they have all the docuements to explain where they ave made error) how much time do i have to submit the fresh application ?

Regards

Hi

Before suggesting anything further, can you please clarify,
1. If the director loan payment made from one or multiple accounts. For example acceptable £88000 from account A & remaining £192,000 from account "B"

2. Investment transactions at your business bank statement got your name & trasaction "Reference"? Like "Director Loan"?

3. 46SD (h)... Either document RTI OR original HMRC P45/P46 to show Specified dates & tax payment. Does your supporting documents "P45/P46" or both were complete and having all the details?

anyone please help me to understand what is appendix A in guideline and where i will find it
thanks

s sogar wrote:Additionally , no evidence as required was supplied to show employees before and after you joined the business.

This is the review of Home office.
Pls help
Thanks

Did you take over or invest in an existing business other than one established by yourself? The above documents are required only in this case.

I didnt not take over any business..it is my own personal business. No one is a share holder in it.

My investment accounts r in different banks.
As when i came in uk i had a different bank.
Then after 2 years i opened a new bank both personal n business.
The amount they could corroborated was in my new bank but they couldnt find anything in my previous bank.
As i have also attached bank a letter confirming that the rest of amount did come through.

And yes every bank has my own name on it.
And yes i have submitted Hmrc tax docuements and p46.

Only i missed RTI submission becoz my accountant didnt provide me any?

s sogar wrote:I didnt not take over any business..it is my own personal business. No one is a share holder in it.

My investment accounts r in different banks.
As when i came in uk i had a different bank.
Then after 2 years i opened a new bank both personal n business.
The amount they could corroborated was in my new bank but they couldnt find anything in my previous bank.
As i have also attached bank a letter confirming that the rest of amount did come through.

And yes every bank has my own name on it.
And yes i have submitted Hmrc tax docuements and p46.

Only i missed RTI submission becoz my accountant didnt provide me any?

1. It seems that the caseworker did not manage to find the full 200k being deposited to your business. I suggest everyone to highlight these transactions with markers for caseworkers. It seems that they have enquired about your old bank account and since it was closed, they though the transaction was not valid. Did you clarify you changed your bank accounts in a cover letter for them ??

2. Unfortunately HO wants FPS submissions for all your employees. I know few payroll software packages do NOT even give you FPS reports and HO strict requirements for this is quite stupid FPS report has exactly what is reported on P11 & P32 reports but HO unfortunately does not accept alternative evidence. Given that this is missing, the chance of AR to succeed is slim.

3. I also do not understand why they ask you to show RTI for employees before you joined the business !!? You started the company yourself and you do not need such evidence as it makes no sense. This seems to be the caseworker mistake.

zimba88 wrote:

s sogar wrote:I didnt not take over any business..it is my own personal business. No one is a share holder in it.

My investment accounts r in different banks.
As when i came in uk i had a different bank.
Then after 2 years i opened a new bank both personal n business.
The amount they could corroborated was in my new bank but they couldnt find anything in my previous bank.
As i have also attached bank a letter confirming that the rest of amount did come through.

And yes every bank has my own name on it.
And yes i have submitted Hmrc tax docuements and p46.

Only i missed RTI submission becoz my accountant didnt provide me any?

1. It seems that the caseworker did not manage to find the full 200k being deposited to your business. I suggest everyone to highlight these transactions with markers for caseworkers. It seems that they have enquired about your old bank account and since it was closed, they though the transaction was not valid. Did you clarify you changed your bank accounts in a cover letter for them ??

2. Unfortunately HO wants FPS submissions for all your employees. I know few payroll software packages do NOT even give you FPS reports and HO strict requirements for this is quite stupid FPS report has exactly what is reported on P11 & P32 reports but HO unfortunately does not accept alternative evidence. Given that this is missing, the chance of AR to succeed is slim.

3. I also do not understand why they ask you to show RTI for employees before you joined the business !!? You started the company yourself and you do not need such evidence as it makes no sense. This seems to be the caseworker mistake.

Totally agree. FPS/RTI is a must. However, point 3 as above, looks like a mistake from case worker. any seniors please advice.

187. You can only use employment created when you were engaged in the business. If you
joined an existing company as a director you may only submit employment created after you
joined the company.
Extra documents needed if you took over or joined an existing business
188. If you have taken over or joined a business that employed workers before you joined it, you
must provide the following documentation for the year immediately before the jobs were created
and the year that the jobs were created, showing the net increase in employment,which you
must sign and date:
Tier 1(Entrepreneur) Policy Guidance version 11/2015 - Page 53
1. Duplicate HMRC Full Payment Submission (you could submit either 12 months worth
of monthly Full Payment Submissions, or a financial year end document running AprilMarch)
to HMRC under ‘Real Time’, or
2. If the business started employing staff for which points are being claimed before they
were reporting under ‘Real Time’, a P35 form.

if you have started this business on your own. and there was other shareholder/director at any point. your case shouldnt fall under this in my opinion. if it was only this point, you have good chance to succeed on admin review. but i guess RTI/FPS is a MUST MUST for which chances are really slim. any other seniors might possibly have some ideas here.

Thank so much for the advice.
Yes i also dont understand why they did silly mistakes.
If they couldnt find any investment they shuld have asked or if RTI /FPS SuBmission were missing.
Atleast they could have for it. Rather than refusing.
Any ways i am also holing we get admin review positive. Because clearly the case worker over looked few things. But as my solicitor advised it is very slim.

Lets hope for best.

Can anyone also pls give advice on , if the admin review gets refused, will they return all my docuements except passports which i submitted for first application?
And in how many can i put in fresh application after admin refusal? How many clendar days, will i be left with?

Many thanks

Hello Sogar,

I am sorry to hear that your application got rejected. What I can only understand as below

1 that you submitted your new personal bank statements which show the transfer from that account to the business. (£88000)
2. You closed your old account where you transferred the the amount of £192.000 to your business account which you didn't submit this when you applied your extension?

Could you please tell us where this is correct?

As per your RTI, i don't think that there is a chance for you to do AR as i also did the same thing. My documents were the confirmation from my accountant as well as employment contracts signed by employee and this was ignored by HO as it is not what they're after.

You may argue that it is evidential flexibility that they should apply, and i understand they failed applying that. If i didn't have any other way to apply, i might have pursue this to JR but as sometime we just need to back down see a bigger picture of our situation.

I did put a fresh application in the end as my AR got rejected without even answering my statements about the start dates of employments.


Thank you.

Can anyone also pls give advice on , if the admin review gets refused, will they return all my docuements except passports which i submitted for first application?

And in how many can i put in fresh application after admin refusal? How many clendar days, will i be left with?

Sogar,

Could you please also answer my previous thread? so that we can also learn from your case. Why did they only find £88.000 from your statements? does this mean that you did not submit the rest of statements?

I am not sure why they calculate the hours of 3002 if you already submitted the wages or the tables which shows the hours of employments.

It would be appreciated if you could elaborate more on this.

I don't think there is any limit to apply as a fresh application, but you must bear in mind that it is really expensive to do it.

When i got refused, they didn't return all the documents and retain few of them. I am not sure why this happened, but they have a right to retain any documents including passports.

Thank you.

s sogar wrote:Can anyone also pls give advice on , if the admin review gets refused, will they return all my docuements except passports which i submitted for first application?

And in how many can i put in fresh application after admin refusal? How many clendar days, will i be left with?

I have been refused once a few years ago and they did not return any of my documents. Basically they retain all the documents you have submitted including passport ofcourse. But that was a few years ago. Well, you can find this yourself as you have already been refused, did they return any of your documents? if not, then it would be same when you apply for admin review and it gets refused.

Regarding fresh application, i guess you will become overstayer the moment you receive your refusal letter. however if you apply before 28 days of overstaying, and if its successfull then you would be safe. if not then technically you would have overstayed since your admin review refusal (for more than 28 days )and all future applications would fall under some period of mandatory ban i guess.

Please wait for seniors to respond though.

Dear rsrameshsunli,

Does that mean if the fresh application is being refused after admin review, then the next application will be refused subsequently as it is more than 28 days?

Thank you

robertholdon wrote:Dear rsrameshsunli,

Does that mean if the fresh application is being refused after admin review, then the next application will be refused subsequently as it is more than 28 days?

Thank you

NO. You will become an over stayer since your admin review refusal date. If you submit your application before 28 days of refusal. your application will still be considered normally though you are an overstayer technically.

Now, if this second application is refused for some other reason such as missing RTI, missing documents etc... By the time you get this result, and if the result was a refusal. your 28 days limit would have exceeded and all your future applications will fall under some period of ban.

However if the result was an approval , then you will be safe.

Thank you for ur response but as i already mentioned , none of my accounts were closed.
I submitted all the banks statements and even mentioned the dates of my investments. And even the letter of director loan mentioning the amount.
Its a real mystery why they couldnt corroborated the investments.

And even with employees hours , one employee they didnt even count the hours. And others they counted only 30 hours per week whereas my employees worked 40 hours.

I hope i have manged to satisfy ur questions asked.

Now
If they dont give back the docuements how can we aubmit the fresh applications...i mean without all the docuements they will make the same errors. Whats the use of fresh application if we cannot amend the errors and give fresh applications?

Please can someone confirm whether they give back all yhe docuements except the passports or not?

Many thanms

Can some pls explain what docuements can we provide if the previous docuements r not sent as they were all originals and i dont have any copies at the moment.

Thanks

s sogar wrote:Thank you for ur response but as i already mentioned , none of my accounts were closed.
I submitted all the banks statements and even mentioned the dates of my investments. And even the letter of director loan mentioning the amount.
Its a real mystery why they couldnt corroborated the investments.

And even with employees hours , one employee they didnt even count the hours. And others they counted only 30 hours per week whereas my employees worked 40 hours.

I hope i have manged to satisfy ur questions asked.

Now
If they dont give back the docuements how can we aubmit the fresh applications...i mean without all the docuements they will make the same errors. Whats the use of fresh application if we cannot amend the errors and give fresh applications?

Please can someone confirm whether they give back all yhe docuements except the passports or not?

Many thanms

1. I always advise against transferring money in instalments. This creates problems and makes it difficult to prove you invested money. Did you mark the transactions with a highlighter for them to see ?? Does your loan agreement drafted before you transferred all the money ??

2. Your RTI submission were missing which is a required evidence for job creation. However you cannot simply claim that your employee worked 40 hours per week, this needs to be supported by the salary payments to them. Your total salary payments over 12 months divided by their hourly rate will give you the total number of hours worked in a year. You divide this by 52 and you get hours worked a week. If this is greater than 30 then you should be awarded points for job creation. How much did you pay your employees and what was their hourly rate ?

3. Obviously they will not return your documents before the AR. But your documents (except your passport) are usually returned to you after the AR is decided. You can apply for a new application within 28 days, immediately after your AR is decided.