Applying for WP with HSMP in hand

Hi,

I have applied for HSMP on 05-Mar and I'll be getting it on Monday (Decision is made, has to be collected from VFS). Meanwhile my employer in India wants to apply workpermit for me.

1) Can I apply for WP with a valid HSMP?

2) If I apply, will my HSMP get cancelled?

Pl. advcie.


Kumar

kumar1981 wrote:Hi,

I have applied for HSMP on 05-Mar and I'll be getting it on Monday (Decision is made, has to be collected from VFS). Meanwhile my employer in India wants to apply workpermit for me.

1) Can I apply for WP with a valid HSMP?

2) If I apply, will my HSMP get cancelled?

Pl. advcie.


Kumar

Yes, if you get WP visa, it will override your HSMP visa.

but why would ur employer want to spend money on getting u a work permit when u can already work with the hsmp visa that u have. does ur employer know that u can work in uk under the hsmp/tier1 visa

Vinay,

Thanks for your reply. As per company policy, employee should travel in workpermit visa only. Hence the concern.

looks like ur company wants to make sure people dont leave the company and work for others. maybe thats why they are insisting on work permit and not allowing hsmp. or maybe they are not aware of hsmp / tier 1 and that it allows u 2 work in uk.

as per uk employment laws, i feel it would be a violation if they are barring hsmp workers. uk employment laws would be valid at all stages of employment selection process if selecting workers for employment in uk. maybe it is time for you to report ur company to the appropriate authorities in uk eg- that ur company is not allowing people with uk residence rights for jobs and preferring people who need resident labour market test to work. both employment laws enforcemnent organisations and BIA will have a say in this area i feel. but be aware of the possible repurcussions at workplace.

interesting criteria for employment that ur company insists on for work in uk. surely it is a restrictive process and am not sure it is entirely legal of them to restrict employees rights like that in the uk. once an employee has been selected to work in the uk and you have a valid employment visa that allows u to work then i feel they have no right to insist u change ur visa category. that is none of their business.

bapio won injunction and appeal on issues where the govt was trying to restrict hsmp holders employment rights in uk only for doctors on a retrospective basis. the house of lords appeal hearing is over and judgement is reserved at present. wonder what the judgement will be.

vinay shanthi wrote:looks like ur company wants to make sure people dont leave the company and work for others. maybe thats why they are insisting on work permit and not allowing hsmp. or maybe they are not aware of hsmp / tier 1 and that it allows u 2 work in uk.

as per uk employment laws, i feel it would be a violation if they are barring hsmp workers. uk employment laws would be valid at all stages of employment selection process if selecting workers for employment in uk. maybe it is time for you to report ur company to the appropriate authorities in uk eg- that ur company is not allowing people with uk residence rights for jobs and preferring people who need resident labour market test to work. both employment laws enforcemnent organisations and BIA will have a say in this area i feel. but be aware of the possible repurcussions at workplace.

interesting criteria for employment that ur company insists on for work in uk. surely it is a restrictive process and am not sure it is entirely legal of them to restrict employees rights like that in the uk. once an employee has been selected to work in the uk and you have a valid employment visa that allows u to work then i feel they have no right to insist u change ur visa category. that is none of their business.

bapio won injunction and appeal on issues where the govt was trying to restrict hsmp holders employment rights in uk only for doctors on a retrospective basis. the house of lords appeal hearing is over and judgement is reserved at present. wonder what the judgement will be.

How can UK employment laws apply to a person who is working in India and a citizen of India?

i didnt mean in india. i meant in uk. the job is in uk, so uk employment laws will be applicable in uk and it covers people being considered for employment from my understanding. a company cannot restrict an employees for prospective employees rights. i read up on this topic when i was concerened about many uk hospitals started discriminating against hsmps initially saying hsmp visas not for duration of job. but later they stopped doing that after a few people filed tribunal cases and filed complaints against such discriminatory advertisements and requirements in employment asking people to take work permits for the jobs when they had hsmp visas. similar situation to what this person is facing. it doesnt matter where the person in staying now. he has a hsmp visa and hence is exempt from the resident labour market test and eligible to work in uk and the company cannot ask him to take work permit when he is already in a category that is allowed to work. by asking for work permit they are trying to restrict his choice.

there were some hsmps who were in india during breaks in job and were applying for jobs. in that situation do u mean to say that uk employment laws dont cover them because they are applying from india. u r misinformed i feel. i have read a bit on this topic, although i accept i may be wrong too but going by a few cases that were settled out of court among doctors on hsmp i feel the company is on a sticky wicket on this issue of asking for workpermit when person has hsmp visa.

if the OP wants free advise. he can try to contact this ACAS http://www.acas.org.uk/ i think it is a free service but check it out if it indeed is free yourself

also see http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/ ... G_10026557 i feel asking for work permit when he is already entitled to work as has hsmp visa is indirect discrimination restricting his rights to being able to change jobs etc while in uk

vinay shanthi wrote:i didnt mean in india. i meant in uk. the job is in uk, so uk employment laws will be applicable in uk and it covers people being considered for employment from my understanding. a company cannot restrict an employees for prospective employees rights. i read up on this topic when i was concerened about many uk hospitals started discriminating against hsmps initially saying hsmp visas not for duration of job. but later they stopped doing that after a few people filed tribunal cases and filed complaints against such discriminatory advertisements and requirements in employment asking people to take work permits for the jobs when they had hsmp visas. similar situation to what this person is facing. it doesnt matter where the person in staying now. he has a hsmp visa and hence is exempt from the resident labour market test and eligible to work in uk and the company cannot ask him to take work permit when he is already in a category that is allowed to work. by asking for work permit they are trying to restrict his choice.

there were some hsmps who were in india during breaks in job and were applying for jobs. in that situation do u mean to say that uk employment laws dont cover them because they are applying from india. u r misinformed i feel. i have read a bit on this topic, although i accept i may be wrong too but going by a few cases that were settled out of court among doctors on hsmp i feel the company is on a sticky wicket on this issue of asking for workpermit when person has hsmp visa.

if the OP wants free advise. he can try to contact this ACAS http://www.acas.org.uk/ i think it is a free service but check it out if it indeed is free yourself

also see http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/ ... G_10026557 i feel asking for work permit when he is already entitled to work as has hsmp visa is indirect discrimination restricting his rights to being able to change jobs etc while in uk

You are are mixing 2 things out here... first of all the OP is still in India and not in the UK...

OP is coming to the UK not on his own but through his present company and there is no such policy that the job has to be advertised in the UK and it falls under UK employment laws... and you are saying that every HSMP candidate is covered by the UK employment law while they are in their respective home countries??? If that is the case then every HSMP candidate from around the world can take their employers to court by quoting the UK immigration or employment laws... Tommorrow HSMP candidates can claim discrimination for not being considered for a job because they are still in their home countries... lol

If the company's policy is to apply for a WP for all their candidates and not ready to consider the HSMP route and the OP is already planning to leave the current employer and finding a new job , then what is stopping the OP from leaving the company and coming to UK and finding a job here. After all the OP has got the HSMP visa.

This is funny... A candidate from India wants to come to the UK through his current employer on HSMP visa with plans to leave him in the near future and he is being advised to report his current employer to the UK employment authorities claiming discrimination...

hi olisun, i am not trying to argue pointlessly. i am just stating the fact that wp will limit his employment options and hsmp will not. a company can hire people but they have no business insisting on what type of visa u hold. as long as u hold a valid employment visa the rest is of no concern to them.

i am not saying all hsmp holders will take employers to court.

being on hsmp means the OP can do extra contract work on weekends etc if he wants to supplement his income. he wont be able to do that on WP. there is no need for the OP to leave the job for hsmp to be more useful to him.

also quite a few employers might not be aware that hsmp is an employment visa. so the OP will maybe just have to inform them that hsmp allows him to work. i do know people who took employers to employment tribunals when they had hsmp visa and employer was insisting on them having WP if they were to get the job etc and hence trying to eliminate them from the selection process. both employers gave in later. infact i might know a 3rd person who took an employer to employment tribunal in similar issue. so i am not going to pointlessly convince u on this issue when i know some of the people i know have already won on these issues. they didnt even have to go thru with the case, employer gave in soon after case was filed. all of them are doctors in the nhs. i have said what ever i know, so if u have more queries on this issue i wont be able to enlighten u more. i was just mentioning this to make he OP aware that this was illegal as per employment laws in uk and he has been selected for job in uk and so uk employment laws will apply. see international code of recruitment published by dept of health. even that says all foreign employees have all rights as uk workers in work conditions and also selections etc as long as they are eligible for jobs in uk. it clearly says the same is applicable whether the employee is recruited in uk or abroad the same codes are referenced in WHO as well. i have copies of both the english code and also the scottish code. i am not wasting more time on this. have a nice day.

Hi Olisun,

Your interpretation is correct. Initially I wanted to get HSMP and find a job in UK. Now my[b] present [/b]employer in [b]India[/b] wants to apply for workpermit and send me to the UK for 1 year. I felt that going to UK with my current employer is safe as I need not search for a job. After a year I can decide to come back or apply for HSMP again. Please answer my question:

1. Can I apply for WP with a valid HSMP?

2. If I can, will my HSMP get cancelled?

Thanks for your time.

Hi,
You can still work fr your Present Co. on HSMP...I would advice not to go got WP..What if your emploer doesnt send u to UK after getting WP(and cancelling your HSMP)...???????
If they r really genuine, then they shd. send u on HSMP..Also WP will cost them and additionla time,respurces and money will be wasted...THINK, why would they waste so much money to geta WP??

Rest is upto you..I will never trust such a company which wants to cancel your HSMP(and your freedom)...Remember on WP, you cannot switch jobs, so even if your employer abuses you/pays u less salary, you cannot do any thing..Only thing is that they can call you back to India any time...Basically u will be at the MERCY of your employer,if you riase your voice they will threaten to send you back to India..WHY DO U WANT TO LOSE YOUR FREEDOM BUDDY??

Ashish

kumar1981 wrote:Hi Olisun,

Your interpretation is correct. Initially I wanted to get HSMP and find a job in UK. Now my present employer in India wants to apply for workpermit and send me to the UK for 1 year. I felt that going to UK with my current employer is safe as I need not search for a job. After a year I can decide to come back or apply for HSMP again. Please answer my question:

1. Can I apply for WP with a valid HSMP?

2. If I can, will my HSMP get cancelled?

Thanks for your time.

By now you know that going for the WP will invalidate you HSMP visa but at the same time if you think that you plan to stick with your current employer for a long time then you have a few options.

Try convince you current Employer to send you on your current HSMP visa but I cannot see that happening as your current employer knows that you might leave them if they send you on your HSMP.

And if you leave them then they might have to go through the trouble of finding a replacement for you including embarassment in front of the client and loss in revenues.

If you cannot convince your employer, do not plan to live in the UK permanently, are confident that you can pass any future HSMP (Tier(s)) and / or not confident you may get a job easily after landing in the UK on HSMP visa then and think it makes sense to go on a WP with the current employer.

OR leave the current employer and come to the UK and find a Job yourself...

Let me guess you are working for TCS?

vinay shanthi wrote:i do know people who took employers to employment tribunals when they had hsmp visa and employer was insisting on them having WP if they were to get the job etc and hence trying to eliminate them from the selection process. both employers gave in later. infact i might know a 3rd person who took an employer to employment tribunal in similar issue. so i am not going to pointlessly convince u on this issue when i know some of the people i know have already won on these issues. they didnt even have to go thru with the case, employer gave in soon after case was filed. all of them are doctors in the nhs.

So you are saying that all the doctors were in India and took the NHS to court???

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Let me ponder a while on this....

Olisun, I'm not with TCS..:-)

vinay shanthi wrote: once an employee has been selected to work in the uk and you have a valid employment visa that allows u to work then i feel they have no right to insist u change ur visa category. that is none of their business.

I think , he has not selected for this post yet. He is already employee of an organization in India, and compnay want to send him on deputation. They have ever right to make policies they want.
They surely don't want to sponsor person in question, for initial expenses and job, only to see him left them after a month or two in UK.
As suggested by somebody, if he don't want any restrictions, he should refuse to come here on WP and resign and manage all things to get going here. Or convince his employer that, he will be with them for entire duration of assignment.

hi kumar

ashishashah has advised u well. if u can come try to come under hsmp. but if u cant then i guess wp is better than nothing (if u r keen on coming here on wp).

olisun. no the people i know on hsmp who had filed tribunal cases were in the uk and applying for new jobs and hospital was trying to say they need wp because job duration longer than hsmp duration hence need wp and because they need wp they come under resident labour market test and hence didnt consider their applications etc. later after they filed cases they got jobs. later they abandoned that policy not allowing hsmps for jobs longer than hsmp duration. but bapio house of lords appeal is over and judgement is reserved. so things might change again for doctors depending on the outcome of the judgement

do give me a call i can help with that kind of issue .07448545593