Tier 1 (General) Dependent - (dentist) work and study

Hi,

My wife is a dentist from India and is on Tier 1 dependent visa. Question pops up in my mind so require clarification on the same.

My wife is preparing for Overseas registration exam for qualifying herself for doing practice in UK.

Questions are:-
1. Can my wife able to do practice/study(short term course/ or diploma course meanwhile she is preparing for her ORE exam in UK.

2. If she clears ORE then will she able to work as full time in UK on Tier 1 dependent visa or she has to get the sponsorship visa for the same.

Thanks
Chirag

If you are not covered by HSMP JR, then 319D(b)(iii) may apply.

sushdmehta wrote:If you are not covered by HSMP JR, then 319D(b)(iii) may apply.

Thnxk for the quick reply.


(1) has obtained a degree in medicine or dentistry at bachelor's level or above from a UK institution that is a UK recognized or listed body, or which holds a sponsor license under Tier 4 of the Points Based System; or

A) Does it means that passing ORE which is recognized by General Dental Council - my wife still not be able to work as a dentist here on Tier 1 dependent visa???

(2) is applying for leave to remain and has, or has last been granted, entry clearance, leave to enter or leave to remain that was not subject to any condition restricting their employment, and has been employed during that leave as a Doctor or Dentist in Training.

A) On MY wife passport it only mentioned that no recourse to public funds where as no Employment as a Doctor or Dentist in Training has not be mentioned- does it mean she can able to still work as dentist in training???

The information provided is confusing pls let me know whether my understanding is correct or not?

chirag

cgohil wrote:A) Does it means that passing ORE which is recognized by General Dental Council

No, a bachelors or higher qualification(s) in Dentistry from a UK medical school.
ORE is an exam for registration under GDC. This exam has nothing to do with immigration requirements.

cgohil wrote:my wife still not be able to work as a dentist here on Tier 1 dependent visa???

She can only work in "non-training" or staff grade posts, i.e.- posts that do not have "training" component that is mandatory for CCST, which in turn is needed to become a consultant.

cgohil wrote:On MY wife passport it only mentioned that no recourse to public funds where as no Employment as a Doctor or Dentist in Training has not be mentioned- does it mean she can able to still work as dentist in training???

AIUI, this restriction was first imposed on non-dentist doctors and then dentists were added on to the list too (can't remember in which year - 2010, 2009 or earlier).

So if your spouse had applied for dependant leave to enter / remain at the time when dentists were subject to these restrictions, then she should be able to work in training posts. But do expect the employers to not rely on just the vignette in the passport and make some background checks to ensure whether your wife is actually exempt from the restriction or if it is just a missing endorsement on the vignette.

IMHO, with no endorsement on the vignette specifying this restriction, it does appear that she applied for dependant leave at a time when this restriction did not apply to dentists. So, she should be fine.

sushdmehta wrote:

cgohil wrote:A) Does it means that passing ORE which is recognized by General Dental Council

No, a bachelors or higher qualification(s) in Dentistry from a UK medical school.
ORE is an exam for registration under GDC. This exam has nothing to do with immigration requirements.

cgohil wrote:my wife still not be able to work as a dentist here on Tier 1 dependent visa???

She can only work in "non-training" or staff grade posts, i.e.- posts that do not have "training" component that is mandatory for CCST, which in turn is needed to become a consultant.

cgohil wrote:On MY wife passport it only mentioned that no recourse to public funds where as no Employment as a Doctor or Dentist in Training has not be mentioned- does it mean she can able to still work as dentist in training???

AIUI, this restriction was first imposed on non-dentist doctors and then dentists were added on to the list too (can't remember in which year - 2010, 2009 or earlier).

So if your spouse had applied for dependant leave to enter / remain at the time when dentists were subject to these restrictions, then she should be able to work in training posts. But do expect the employers to not rely on just the vignette in the passport and make some background checks to ensure whether your wife is actually exempt from the restriction or if it is just a missing endorsement on the vignette.

IMHO, with no endorsement on the vignette specifying this restriction, it does appear that she applied for dependant leave at a time when this restriction did not apply to dentists. So, she should be fine.

Thnx sush for clear explanation ---- My wife has applied for dependent visa on 17th jan 2011

Where can I able to get the information about - this restriction was first imposed on non-dentist doctors and then dentists ??

I suppose in order to confirm it I need to call home office only.

I am not getting clear information on any website hence tried to post my question on this forum..

thnx once again....

chirag

Did some searching ....

These restrictions were introduced for (non-dentist) doctor dependants in April 2008 (Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules HC 321 - February 2008). But, dentists were added to the list only in April 2010 (Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules HC 439 - March 2010).

cgohil wrote:My wife has applied for dependent visa on 17th jan 2011

Then 319(D)(b)(iii) should be applicable to her.

sushdmehta wrote:Did some searching ....

These restrictions were introduced for (non-dentist) doctor dependants in April 2008 (Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules HC 321 - February 2008). But, dentists were added to the list only in April 2010 (Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules HC 439 - March 2010).

cgohil wrote:My wife has applied for dependent visa on 17th jan 2011

Then 319(D)(b)(iii) is not applicable to her.

this is a good news ---

I have refer the link which you have send to me -

It says:-

Amendments to Rules for family members
7.34 The existing restrictions on employment as a doctor or dentist in training for family members
of migrants with limited leave to remain are being amended in line with the amendments to the
similar restriction for Tier 1 migrants, Tier 4 (General) migrants and Tier 5 (Youth Mobility
Scheme) migrants.

i suppose that is why they have not mentioned "no Employment as a Doctor or Dentist in Training" on her passport?

Thnx
chirag

See my edited response above (misread 2011 as 2010).

cgohil wrote:i suppose that is why they have not mentioned "no Employment as a Doctor or Dentist in Training" on her passport?

AIUI, 319D(b)(iii) makes no reference that this restriction on dependants will be applicable only when the main migrant has the same restriction imposed. Neither does the dependant policy guidance suggests so.

In light of this, IMHO, the endorsement "No Employment as a Doctor or Dentist in Training" should have been noted on the vignette in her passport - in line with the immigration rules. If it is not there, I believe, it is in error.

sushdmehta wrote:See my edited response above (misread 2011 as 2010).

cgohil wrote:i suppose that is why they have not mentioned "no Employment as a Doctor or Dentist in Training" on her passport?

AIUI, 319D(b)(iii) makes no reference that this restriction on dependants will be applicable only when the main migrant has the same restriction imposed. Neither does the dependant policy guidance suggests so.

In light of this, IMHO, the endorsement "No Employment as a Doctor or Dentist in Training" should have been noted on the vignette in her passport - in line with the immigration rules. If it is not there, I believe, it is in error.

After reading ur reply I got disappointed ???? I have to check my passport for "no Employment as a Doctor or Dentist in Training" stamp.

so now have to check the other options??
tell me one thing if she clear ORE - can she able to work as private practice in dental clinic on Tier 1 dependent? or she has to have either sponsorship or has to have education from UK.

chirag

cgohil wrote:can she able to work as private practice in dental clinic on Tier 1 dependent?

Cannot be answered in general, as whether or not she may be eligible to work in such a job would depend on what the eligibility requirements are for the "job in question".

cgohil wrote:or she has to have either sponsorship or has to have education from UK.

If she does not meet the requirements (immigration and / or qualifications) specified for the job(s) in question, she will then need to meet those requirements (either through sponsorship or UK qualification(s) or through other possible means).

sushdmehta wrote:

cgohil wrote:can she able to work as private practice in dental clinic on Tier 1 dependent?

Cannot be answered in general, as whether or not she may be eligible to work in such a job would depend on what the eligibility requirements are for the "job in question".

cgohil wrote:or she has to have either sponsorship or has to have education from UK.

If she does not meet the requirements (immigration and / or qualifications) specified for the job(s) in question, she will then need to meet those requirements (either through sponsorship or UK qualification(s) or through other possible means).

Hi Sush,

I have asked home office for my queries and I got below answers to it.

Your wife can work as a qualified dentist but not as a dentist in training. I am not sure why her visa stamp does not mention “no employment as a doctor or dentist in trainingâ€

You need to understand the difference between "training posts" and "non-training posts" within the profession of dentistry in the UK. Google .. or enquire from acquaintances in the field .. or from GDC .. or from BDA!

Your wife cannot work in "training posts" but may work in a "non-training" post - irrespective of who the employer may be (NHS, private practice, private hospital etc.).

sushdmehta wrote:You need to understand the difference between "training posts" and "non-training posts" within the profession of dentistry in the UK. Google .. or enquire from acquaintances in the field .. or from GDC!

Your wife cannot work in "training posts" but may work in a "non-training" post - irrespective of who the employer may be (NHS, private practice, private hospital etc.).

thanks sush...

Now I will find out the information about what is the difference between training post and non training post??

Thanks for your support so far in digging for the answers.

will update u if I have found ny useful information.

chirag

cgohil wrote:

sushdmehta wrote:You need to understand the difference between "training posts" and "non-training posts" within the profession of dentistry in the UK. Google .. or enquire from acquaintances in the field .. or from GDC!

Your wife cannot work in "training posts" but may work in a "non-training" post - irrespective of who the employer may be (NHS, private practice, private hospital etc.).

thanks sush...

Now I will find out the information about what is the difference between training post and non training post??

Thanks for your support so far in digging for the answers.

will update u if I have found ny useful information.

chirag

Update after calling GDC and Immigration office.

GDC Response:-
They told ORE is mandatory exam for getting registration and eligible to work in UK.

If u do postgraduate of 2 yrs also then u can not directly practice as dentist in UK - still u require to clear ORE exam - which is very unfair for student spending so much of money and not getting to work in UK.

Immigration:-
Tier-1 dependent can work in UK as dentist but not in training post.


So conclusion:-
1. My wife has to clear ORE if she wanted to do practice in UK.

chirag

You might want to know about temperory registration, the details in the following link

http://www.gdc-uk.org/Dentalprofessiona ... ation.aspx

cheers,
alladin

cgohil wrote:

cgohil wrote:

sushdmehta wrote:You need to understand the difference between "training posts" and "non-training posts" within the profession of dentistry in the UK. Google .. or enquire from acquaintances in the field .. or from GDC!

Your wife cannot work in "training posts" but may work in a "non-training" post - irrespective of who the employer may be (NHS, private practice, private hospital etc.).

thanks sush...

Now I will find out the information about what is the difference between training post and non training post??

Thanks for your support so far in digging for the answers.

will update u if I have found ny useful information.

chirag

Update after calling GDC and Immigration office.

GDC Response:-
They told ORE is mandatory exam for getting registration and eligible to work in UK.

If u do postgraduate of 2 yrs also then u can not directly practice as dentist in UK - still u require to clear ORE exam - which is very unfair for student spending so much of money and not getting to work in UK.

Immigration:-
Tier-1 dependent can work in UK as dentist but not in training post.


So conclusion:-
1. My wife has to clear ORE if she wanted to do practice in UK.

chirag

alladin wrote:You might want to know about temperory registration, the details in the following link

http://www.gdc-uk.org/Dentalprofessiona ... ation.aspx

cheers,
alladin

cgohil wrote:

cgohil wrote:

sushdmehta wrote:You need to understand the difference between "training posts" and "non-training posts" within the profession of dentistry in the UK. Google .. or enquire from acquaintances in the field .. or from GDC!

Your wife cannot work in "training posts" but may work in a "non-training" post - irrespective of who the employer may be (NHS, private practice, private hospital etc.).

thanks sush...

Now I will find out the information about what is the difference between training post and non training post??

Thanks for your support so far in digging for the answers.

will update u if I have found ny useful information.

chirag

Update after calling GDC and Immigration office.

GDC Response:-
They told ORE is mandatory exam for getting registration and eligible to work in UK.

If u do postgraduate of 2 yrs also then u can not directly practice as dentist in UK - still u require to clear ORE exam - which is very unfair for student spending so much of money and not getting to work in UK.

Immigration:-
Tier-1 dependent can work in UK as dentist but not in training post.


So conclusion:-
1. My wife has to clear ORE if she wanted to do practice in UK.

chirag

thnx,

but temporary registration will help for in supervised posts for training, teaching, or research purposes only...

any on tier 1 dependent visa u can not work as a training post.....

true., not possible to work in training posts.

cheers,
alladin

cgohil wrote:

alladin wrote:You might want to know about temperory registration, the details in the following link

http://www.gdc-uk.org/Dentalprofessiona ... ation.aspx

cheers,
alladin

thnx,

but temporary registration will help for in supervised posts for training, teaching, or research purposes only...

any on tier 1 dependent visa u can not work as a training post.....

hi cgohil

i am a oversea dentist myself and i am a TIER I dependent too. of my husband.

i have passed ORE first part .

as fas as i know.

1. even after we pass we (overseas dentists) are required to do a one year/ 6 months. VT equivalance ( vocational training) or sometimes u may be exempted iIF you show paperwork that u have enough work experience as a dentist from back home. but this basically will be decided by the Deanery you will apply for. if its 6 months/ one yr or none required .

2. if at all VT training is required for her. then with her present visa status i believe she can't do training.

3. whereas she can work directly after clearing ORE, without undergoing any training . BUT only in private clinics not nhs surgeries or hospitals, if she gets a such job. As that's a dentist job and not training , so she cud do that.


hope i made some sense.

Overseas Dentist can work in the UK provided he or she clears the ORE (Part-1 and Part-2) and then has to find the VTE place which is called as Vocational Training by Assessment and the same is not funded by Deanery hence you can work under VTE and the same is not classed as Dentist in Training. Although getting the VTE is extremely difficult as the practice has too go through too many hassle without and financial gain hence generally nobody is interested in offering the ORE passed candidate as VTE .. rather they would prefer to take VT candidate as the same is funded by DEANERY and that would be classed as Dentist in Training.

Hi,
My wife is dentist currently practicing in India. She will be coming to UK on a dependent visa. Is it not possible for her to practice in UK after clearing ORE. If there is any other means by which overseas dependent dentist can do their practice?

Rajendrababu wrote:Hi,
My wife is dentist currently practicing in India. She will be coming to UK on a dependent visa. Is it not possible for her to practice in UK after clearing ORE. If there is any other means by which overseas dependent dentist can do their practice?

It does depend on your VISA status but If she is on a dependent visa and as long as she clears the ORE and VTE status than she would be able to apply for a UK Dentist Post ... until than it's not possible to work as Dentist in the UK. There is no other mean to get away from this painful process !!

There is a full guideline details available on GDC website for overseas Dentists.

Thanks kvyas for your reply. Can you or anyone please let me know the process of finding a VTE place and how hard or easy the process.

Hi,
My wife is a dentist in India and she is on her dependent visa, preparing for ORE. If she clears ORE and wait till she gets Indefinite leave to remain, will there be a problem in getting a vocational Training post after 5 years of time? Is there any age limits to apply for VTE?