Deception in Tier 2 general application

sahni wrote:Thank you Mole..
By considering all ur points, thinking of that plan B , Dnt know what to do ..My daughter has been studying here in uk for 5 years..Will they consider it? Because if we go to our native country she wont be able to follow the education system there.

No, this is will likely not be considered as a valid reason.

CR001 wrote:

sahni wrote:Thank you Mole..
By considering all ur points, thinking of that plan B , Dnt know what to do ..My daughter has been studying here in uk for 5 years..Will they consider it? Because if we go to our native country she wont be able to follow the education system there.

No, this is will likely not be considered as a valid reason.

Anyone else has related experience pls?

sahni wrote:Anyone else has related experience pls?

I don't think you will get members sharing such experience. Those that have been involved or caught in such scams have chosen to leave the UK as there is no way that they can win this type of fight.

Frontier Moles' post is the one you should take note of.

CR001 wrote:

sahni wrote:Anyone else has related experience pls?

I don't think you will get members sharing such experience. Those that have been involved or caught in such scams have chosen to leave the UK as there is no way that they can win this type of fight.

Frontier Moles' post is the one you should take note of.

Thank you...It's highly painful that we have to pay for some others benefit.

Yes, it is unfortunate. Alarm bells should have been ringing when you were asked to pay for the CoS if this was the case, and usually is when it is a f a k e CoS.

Will your life be in danger if you go back to your home country? U may have options

abib1 wrote:Will your life be in danger if you go back to your home country? U may have options

@abib1, OP has been a guest worker in UK for 4/5 years.
Due to misadvice/poor decision taking they have been effectively living in UK on borrowed time for all this time.

Deception is not grounds for asylum.
There is no suggestion that asylum is appropriate.
You have been repeatedly warned about taking this approach already.

I am guessing here but there are a number of noted scam cases that have been heard. Looking at your dates it is possible that you are one out of a number of those. The false COS scams mostly followed the same methods. Some were more sophisticated than others but in the main there were two methods.

Direct method - you answer an ad or approach a rep on the basis that you need a tier 2 visa. A COS is offered on a straight fee basis. Sometimes there is actually a work role but in the main it is a straight purchase and use scheme. There were two possibilities with the COS, it was real but the Sponsor was never going to employ you or if they did certainly not at a salary or the role stated.
It was a totally false COS and you were either told that or not. Those that knew it was false we're using it to buy time to find a genuine role and swap to it before the immigration decision was made. Those that believed it to be real obviously got a shock.

Indirect method - this was the more sophisticated scam. Place ads in various media targeting those with expiring leave or under curtailment. Get them to apply for roles on std application forms. Un-Surprisingly everyone who applied gets a role and an associated COS. But you are never given a COS but get directed to a nominated rep to get them to process the visa. This scam works very well because it plays on a vulnerable group, offers them a job, it is normall to pay a rep etc upfront for the application etc. So you get fobbed off for a couple of weeks until they have scammed a number of people then they either say the company has lost their licence or gone bust or they put in the applications without the fees, one scam actually put in the applications using the false COS and paid the fees just to give themselves more disappearing time. Either way they have taken a large chunk of "fees". Once the scammers have decided it is the end game everyone in the scam disappears never to be heard of again.

Frontier Mole wrote:I am guessing here but there are a number of noted scam cases that have been heard. Looking at your dates it is possible that you are one out of a number of those. The false COS scams mostly followed the same methods. Some were more sophisticated than others but in the main there were two methods.

Direct method - you answer an ad or approach a rep on the basis that you need a tier 2 visa. A COS is offered on a straight fee basis. Sometimes there is actually a work role but in the main it is a straight purchase and use scheme. There were two possibilities with the COS, it was real but the Sponsor was never going to employ you or if they did certainly not at a salary or the role stated.
It was a totally false COS and you were either told that or not. Those that knew it was false we're using it to buy time to find a genuine role and swap to it before the immigration decision was made. Those that believed it to be real obviously got a shock.

Indirect method - this was the more sophisticated scam. Place ads in various media targeting those with expiring leave or under curtailment. Get them to apply for roles on std application forms. Un-Surprisingly everyone who applied gets a role and an associated COS. But you are never given a COS but get directed to a nominated rep to get them to process the visa. This scam works very well because it plays on a vulnerable group, offers them a job, it is normall to pay a rep etc upfront for the application etc. So you get fobbed off for a couple of weeks until they have scammed a number of people then they either say the company has lost their licence or gone bust or they put in the applications without the fees, one scam actually put in the applications using the false COS and paid the fees just to give themselves more disappearing time. Either way they have taken a large chunk of "fees". Once the scammers have decided it is the end game everyone in the scam disappears never to be heard of again.

I got COS through my solicitor only ,so I applied for tier2 and after 4 weeks he only told to withdraw the application .
He said someone who worked for the company issued 7 Cos with same serial number and sold !! These 7 ppl applied for visa in that month. The company is still running nicely even now I'm getting company reports monthly through company check.

So you knowing bought a COS and it was sold to you through a solicitor. That same solicitor knew it was a fraudulent COS as even if it were a real COS it was sold specifically to you in order for you to facilitate the fraudulent act of applying for a tier 2 visa where there was no genuine vacancy and it was purely to extend your stay.

You do know the solicitor is full of B/S and is certainly part of the scam ? The solicitor can't know the specifics of the scam unless he was involved. The story of a stolen COS is totally pants and has no basis in truth whatsoever. The COS was almost certainly a previously issued and used one, recycled to those desperate and willing enough to buy it.

Have you reported the solicitor to the authorities, probably not because you think he may offer a way out. He won't and he can't as he will be struck off if he supports your story.

So that leaves you in a court with a nonsensical belief you can turn this around. What are you proposing to say? How are you going to explain that you bought a COS through a solicitor? What have you got as evidence? How can that evidence if any show that you were not knowingly involved in the attempted fraud?

The hearing can not have a happy ending.

Frontier Mole wrote:So you knowing bought a COS and it was sold to you through a solicitor. That same solicitor knew it was a fraudulent COS as even if it were a real COS it was sold specifically to you in order for you to facilitate the fraudulent act of applying for a tier 2 visa where there was no genuine vacancy and it was purely to extend your stay.

You do know the solicitor is full of B/S and is certainly part of the scam ? The solicitor can't know the specifics of the scam unless he was involved. The story of a stolen COS is totally pants and has no basis in truth whatsoever. The COS was almost certainly a previously issued and used one, recycled to those desperate and willing enough to buy it.

Have you reported the solicitor to the authorities, probably not because you think he may offer a way out. He won't and he can't as he will be struck off if he supports your story.

So that leaves you in a court with a nonsensical belief you can turn this around. What are you proposing to say? How are you going to explain that you bought a COS through a solicitor? What have you got as evidence? How can that evidence if any show that you were not knowingly involved in the attempted fraud?

The hearing can not have a happy ending.

After the withdrawal only we doubted that he is also a part of this scam.. He is still not admitting it..
only thing I can say is I'm innocent..I do not have any other evidences..I know i don't have any other options..was just thinking if anyone of u know how to deal with it.

Hope for best but plan for worst:
Plan B. Plan to leave for home in orderly fashion.

I am struggling to see how you can be innocent in the matter. You purchased a COS through your solicitor.

That in itself shows you did not in anyway actually apply for a job, pass an interview nor actually meet the Sponsor.

If that is your defence- your innocent - that will last precisely the time it takes to read the above in court.

You are extremely naive in this matter and believing your solicitor is not part of the scam demonstrates this. Where do you think the COS came from? The solicitor procured it for you, it is no mystery to him or anyone in the immigration industry it came via a dubious source. He bought it and sold it to you. Even if he believed it to be real it was still bought. It was never a genuine vacancy, it was never a real job, it was procured solely to deceive UKVI into giving you a tier 2 visa.

You have participated in a fraud - knowingly and willingly - you are far from innocent in the matter.

You're admitting your guilt by saying you bought a CoS.

A genuine position would never require you to buy a certificate of sponsorship.

Not knowing the law doesn't justify a crime.

If you were actually advised by your solicitor to do this, that should be a crime in itself on his part - he facilitated fraud. CoS being valid or not.

I'd have reported the solicitor ages ago.
You have deception on your record thanks to him. There is no way he 'wasn't in' on the scam and it's irrelevant.
CoS valid or not, he advised you to commit deception. And you did.

I'm sorry this happened, but there's no other way of seeing it.

My daughter has been studying here in uk for 5 years..
So if we apply after 2 years for their FLR will it be
affected? I'm talking about the 7 years children rule ..
If I get a chance for another appeal..

2 years is a long time and you would not be able to work, neither would your partner if he is/was on your dependent visa (unless partner qualifies for some visa). How old is the child?

None of you would have the right to remain in the UK. No free NHS, can't leave to go on holiday, cannot rent a property. You will be creating a very difficult situation for yourself and your family and it still will not change the deception.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/immigr ... 20869.html

And there is no simple 7 years child rule anymore. Its merged into Immigration rules.

CR001 wrote:2 years is a long time and you would not be able to work, neither would your partner if he is/was on your dependent visa (unless partner qualifies for some visa). How old is the child?

None of you would have the right to remain in the UK. No free NHS, can't leave to go on holiday, cannot rent a property. You will be creating a very difficult situation for yourself and your family and it still will not change the deception.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/immigr ... 20869.html

Oh..
My child is 13 yrs now, came to uk when 8 yrs

Once this appeal is dismissed then you will then face removal from the UK. Family removal is messy and a prolonged process but it will happen.

Your immigration history will be blighted for using deception and there is very little chance any other route to remain in the U.K. Will be successful. You are grasping at straws thinking your daughters stay in the UK will make any difference. She came here 5 years ago, not a particularly long time, she left your home country at 8 years old, so spent her formative years in her home country. None of this is a barrier to removal.

The biggest issue and you seem to think you can side step it is the fraud you attempted. Why would you believe you could benefit from your illegal act and your futile attempt to remain using the appeal system.

I would seriously consider your return options to your home country and making the most of any voluntary exit package you have access to.

Frontier Mole wrote:Once this appeal is dismissed then you will then face removal from the UK. Family removal is messy and a prolonged process but it will happen.

Your immigration history will be blighted for using deception and there is very little chance any other route to remain in the U.K. Will be successful. You are grasping at straws thinking your daughters stay in the UK will make any difference. She came here 5 years ago, not a particularly long time, she left your home country at 8 years old, so spent her formative years in her home country. None of this is a barrier to removal.

The biggest issue and you seem to think you can side step it is the fraud you attempted. Why would you believe you could benefit from your illegal act and your futile attempt to remain using the appeal system.

I would seriously consider your return options to your home country and making the most of any voluntary exit package you have access to.

Dear

Thanks for replying..

I got my appeal dismissed on human rights grounds and got permission for requesting appeal UTT.
At the hearing I was not allowed to talk any thing about the deception or whatever happened in the previous application.
They said it's only because I have my daughter studies here, I got the right for appeal.So the judge asked me to describe my current situation and about my children. It was not scary or anything ; thank god even the HOPO didn't ask too many things and all.
Because they have already made a decision on the application the deception won't be removed. Deception will not affect the human rights grounds I guess.

Thank you all..

Again you are clutching at straws here. Your appeal was DISMISSED. So the court has in this instance said you do not have even a HR case. So the next stage is to appeal to the UTT where again the appeal is likely to be dismissed. Then there is a JR which will not even get a hearing.
By all means carry on but the result will remain the same.