Victims of ETS Scam

hello all i need help from gurus yesterday i was in manchester tribunal and my hearing on float list tribunal was so busy so my case is not heard yesterday my barrister told me now they will send you new hearing daye i want to know how long it will take to send me another hearing date i applied for visa flr fp for family and private life based on my British wife and british child home office refused my application in January 2016 regarding toiec issue also my solicitor send bundle to tribunal and hopo bit we didn't receive any bundle from homeoffice . can anyone help me what is ghe next procedure or if i apply flr fp again is they refused my application same refusal regarding toiec or shall i wait for new hearing date thanks

Wait.

noorali26 wrote:hello all i need help from gurus yesterday i was in manchester tribunal and my hearing on float list tribunal was so busy so my case is not heard yesterday my barrister told me now they will send you new hearing daye i want to know how long it will take to send me another hearing date i applied for visa flr fp for family and private life based on my British wife and british child home office refused my application in January 2016 regarding toiec issue also my solicitor send bundle to tribunal and hopo bit we didn't receive any bundle from homeoffice . can anyone help me what is ghe next procedure or if i apply flr fp again is they refused my application same refusal regarding toiec or shall i wait for new hearing date thanks

Unfortunately this is the same problem for everyone. You were at Manchester , and I was there on Wedmessy. Stayed there the whole day, until 3 pm, no respondent bundle, and they did not receive our appellant bundle either as the Presenting office had changed address without notifying anyone.

As vinny said, you will have to wait, as depressing as I find it.

This float list should be quashed in my view. Total mess.

thank you but if i apply flr fp again will they still refuse my application because i applied my student extension in march 2014 with toiec or they grant me the visa . thanks

What makes you think that they won't refuse on the same basis?

noorali26 wrote:thank you but if i apply flr fp again will they still refuse my application because i applied my student extension in march 2014 with toiec or they grant me the visa . thanks

The would have refused under suitability requirement.

Therefore it is mandatory . Applying for FLR (FP) will be a waste of money .

yeah because my solicitor said to me we can apply the flr fp but they will refuse you again because your submitted toiec in 2014

Has the solicitor requested your test result from ETS?

The voice recording?

I have been able to get it twice by sending an email.

In the last request I was told that home office needs to give permission and they have not.
Not sure what they are hiding as it is in everyones interest to get the voice recording and get a voice recording expert to write a report.

no solicitor not requested but i emailed so many times to ETS but they dont reply

Congrats everyone. The Court of Appeal dismisses the Home Secretary's appeal from Qadir/SM (TOEIC/ETS etc). The Upper Tribunal's decision was open to it and it will stand. Beatson LJ gave the lead judgment, Black LJ and Sales LJ agreed. Some of the submissions originally made by the Home Secretary in writing were said to be "fundamentally misconceived". The Upper Tribunal made no error of law in allowing Qadir/SM's appeals. The Home Secretary to concede certain other similar pending cases and/or offer settlements and remittals, etc. Good luck to all with pending cases on similar points.

from Z Malik, not the one in One Direction

It appears that it was an Extempore Judgement.

Will be interesting to see what the judge says.

Court of Appeal has dismissed the appeal of home office on the issue of TOEIC so high-court decision in favour of students will be maintained.

A long-running programme to deport foreign students from the UK on the basis of hearsay evidence was in ruins today, after the appeal court ruled against the Home Office.
The decision to quietly shelve the legal challenge is a damning moment for Theresa May, who presided over the department when it used flimsy evidence to threaten tens of thousands of foreign students with detention and deportation.
The Home Office argued in a court case that the students had fraudulently completed English language tests, but was unable to point to any expert evidence substantiating its accusations. Its own officials, whose testimony it had put forward as proof of student fraud, were dismissed by the court as lacking "qualifications or expertise, vocational or otherwise, in the scientific subject matter of these appeals".
The department appealed that ruling but today its case was dismissed as "fundamentally misconceived".

Link: http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2016/10/ ... legal-appe

atmone wrote:Congrats everyone. The Court of Appeal dismisses the Home Secretary's appeal from Qadir/SM (TOEIC/ETS etc). The Upper Tribunal's decision was open to it and it will stand. Beatson LJ gave the lead judgment, Black LJ and Sales LJ agreed. Some of the submissions originally made by the Home Secretary in writing were said to be "fundamentally misconceived". The Upper Tribunal made no error of law in allowing Qadir/SM's appeals. The Home Secretary to concede certain other similar pending cases and/or offer settlements and remittals, etc. Good luck to all with pending cases on similar points.

from Z Malik, not the one in One Direction

will it help? because my visa curtailed because toeic as well.

We are in the same boat - I am born and bred british citizen, met my husband while he was waiting for his entrepreneurs visa to be extended, got married didn't bother switching to marriage visa as we didnt think we needed to. suddenly they withdrew his right to stay and did not give in country right of appeal because they accused him of TOEIC deception. We asked for recording proving he used proxy - home office said they do not have it ETS has it and they are satisfied that he used deception. we then applied under human rights as I was pregnant, they refused this again using TOEIC and said we have a genuine relationship but the fraud use justifies separation from his child and that I will be here to raise my child alone if i decide not to leave the country with him! our appeal has been waiting almost 6 months with not even a notice of hearing from the courts. The ridiculous thing is he has been here 10 years now and wont qualify for ILR, further he has an IELTS test which was taken a few years before and he scored top marks in! why the hell would he need to use a proxy when he was fluent in english!

The Qadir case is certainly amazing, however we will only know if it is useful to other victims when the judgment is published.

My husband had £250k to invest in this country and had already paid more in taxes than i have in my career! not exactly someone who would be abusing the system.

Saddest part - he has been unable to see his dad for 3 years because of the false accusations and they passed away very suddenly last week and HO said they would not let him back in if he attended the funeral.

Has anyone had success at first tribunal? how long is it taking people to actually get in front of a judge? i think HO just keeps appealing any successes lord knows why.

With a Child, i believe your husband's case should succeed , even if deception was employed.

Were you able to get the tapes.

I use to get the recordings, but recently ETS are saying Home Office Permission is required. However Home Office has refused to give consent.

I am surprised ETS was able to give you firm confirmation that a proxy was used. They have refused to even give me that confirmation.

Obie wrote:With a Child, i believe your husband's case should succeed , even if deception was employed.

Were you able to get the tapes.

I use to get the recordings, but recently ETS are saying Home Office Permission is required. However Home Office has refused to give consent.

I am surprised ETS was able to give you firm confirmation that a proxy was used. They have refused to even give me that confirmation.

Hi Obie, thanks for your response, HO said that ETC confirmation was enough for them, and they said that they do not hold the tapes and they are satisfied with that that deception was used and that we will not get the tapes. I believe the wording was the same for all TOEIC users - they have used voice detection software, used independent experts blah blah blah - satisfied that proxy was used.

I would hope a British wife and child would be enough, but sadly this doesn't seem to be the case, we have put a request for expedited hearing due to death of father but i highly doubt we will get it, and even if we do and we win HO will still apply to appeal on some made up error of law. Timescale is still looking like 12-18 months more.

In my experience, not all TOEIC cases are challenged. If judge provide sufficient reasoning, then they will not challenge.

Obie wrote:With a Child, i believe your husband's case should succeed , even if deception was employed.

Were you able to get the tapes.

I use to get the recordings, but recently ETS are saying Home Office Permission is required. However Home Office has refused to give consent.

I am surprised ETS was able to give you firm confirmation that a proxy was used. They have refused to even give me that confirmation.

HO refused me over toeic ,in my second Flr(m),and I didn't even use toeic certificate in my any of visa .i have one year old son British citizen and my wife is British citizen too,I have louge my appeal but god know when I'm gonna get hearing what's ur opinion Obie?

That is very unfortunate.

I know I have not use toeic in any of my visa extension
What's ur opinion obie?

Hi Obie,

I really hope that is the case here then! fingers crossed.

Hamzah88 - what grounds did they refuse you on then?

Hamzah88 wrote:I know I have not use toeic in any of my visa extension
What's ur opinion obie?

Why did they refuse you then?

sarsk87 wrote:Hi Obie,

I really hope that is the case here then! fingers crossed.

Hamzah88 - what grounds did they refuse you on then?

But complacency is not the right approach.

As judges are unpredictable.

Oh I am totally preparing for the worst, I cannot just hope the matter resolves itself, I thankfully have a good job in the city and have contacts in the legal industry. I am using a proper legal firm, unfortunately as my husband is not working (not able to) and i have been on maternity this has been an incredibly expensive and stressful time, It makes me sad that those people ruined it for all the innocent genuine people out there. They focus in the media of just students but it is anyone that has ever gone near TOEIC who have already established private lives / businesses / careers etc. The fraudsters deserved what they got, but the blanket approach was a lazy, expensive and life destroying exercise.

I have worked in the legal field my entire career so I am unfortunately all too aware of the unpredictable nature of judges.

I would love to hear of anyone else going through similar things at the moment and where they have reached in their fight

Sarsk87-they refused me with same reason like yours .But Has ur husband ever use toeic certificate and extaion his visa with toeic certificate?