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How Long can u b out of work on HSMP (for ILR)

Archived UK Tier 1 (General) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

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webhunter
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How Long can u b out of work on HSMP (for ILR)

Post by webhunter » Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:39 am

Due to the current economic downturn one or more of the HSMP holders might be out of work from short to long durations.

Now my question, is there a requirement on how long one can be out of work on a HSMP visa, when they eventually qualify for ILR.

As I understand when one applies for ILR, you are required to show economic activity in the last 5 years, and what happens when one is out of work for short to long times, ane even more importantly if he/she does'nt have job when they actually apply for ILR.

Most of us will qualify for ILR sooner or later, I thought the above questions are very important/relevant to the current downturn.

republique
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Re: How Long can u b out of work on HSMP (for ILR)

Post by republique » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:08 pm

webhunter wrote:Due to the current economic downturn one or more of the HSMP holders might be out of work from short to long durations.

Now my question, is there a requirement on how long one can be out of work on a HSMP visa, when they eventually qualify for ILR.

As I understand when one applies for ILR, you are required to show economic activity in the last 5 years, and what happens when one is out of work for short to long times, ane even more importantly if he/she does'nt have job when they actually apply for ILR.

Most of us will qualify for ILR sooner or later, I thought the above questions are very important/relevant to the current downturn.
you have to look at other post via the search function for details
the rule of thumb is when you apply for ILR you should be working or you might be rejected.
No one on the board yet has applied without working. Work gaps are not a problem but the moment you apply you should be doing something

webhunter
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Post by webhunter » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:12 pm

my gut feeling is, it is a perfectly valid scenario for someone to be out of work when they apply for ILR ( assuming it is perfectly valid for some one on HSMP to be out of work during their 5 year period).

So based on the documentation I could find, I did'nt see anywhere mentioning that it is mandatory for someone to be employed whey they apply for ILR. I think it is more an assumption that the applicants make, than is a requirement from HomeOffice.

republique
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Post by republique » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:32 pm

webhunter wrote:my gut feeling is, it is a perfectly valid scenario for someone to be out of work when they apply for ILR ( assuming it is perfectly valid for some one on HSMP to be out of work during their 5 year period).

So based on the documentation I could find, I did'nt see anywhere mentioning that it is mandatory for someone to be employed whey they apply for ILR. I think it is more an assumption that the applicants make, than is a requirement from HomeOffice.
there is no rule that says so which is why i said the rule of thumb is to do what i said
feel free to apply unenemployed
and let us know how you make out

tech
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Post by tech » Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:19 pm

For Self employed applicants (or combinatiion of employment and self-employment) the issue doesn't arise. you need show progress of your company.

Actually this period starts after you have received you last extension. If you have got extension in say Feb 08, you need show your economic activity from feb 08.

For employed appplicants, you need to show whatever income you made from your last extension. If you are out of work,when you apply for ILR, you need substantial funds to support yourself and it will fall under complex application category.

webhunter
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Post by webhunter » Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:35 pm

well, from what you guys mention , it looks like being employed at the time of application for ILR is very important. I am not due for ILR for the next year or two ( based on what the March 13th JR decides), but it definitely helps me be prepared for the ILR application date so that we dont try and change employment months/days before the application.

Atleast I think people who fall under the JR, have the possibility of getting an other extension(after 5 years) if they unfortunately fail to have employment at the time of application. And soon after finding employment they can apply for ILR.

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Post by z00ps00p » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:06 pm

At least for Tier 1 (General) workers, as per the Immigration Rules Part 6A ¶245E, you do need to be employed or self-employed at the time you apply for ILR:
To qualify for indefinite leave to remain, a Tier 1 (General) Migrant must meet the requirements listed below. If the applicant meets these requirements, indefinite leave to remain will be granted. If the applicant does not meet these requirements, the application will be refused, unless the applicant qualifies for leave to remain by virtue of paragraphs 33E to 33F of these Rules.

Requirements:
(a) The applicant must not fall for refusal under the general grounds for refusal, and must not be an illegal entrant.

(b) The applicant must have spent a continuous period of 5 years Lawfully in the UK, of which the most recent period must have been spent with leave as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant, and the rest may be made up of leave:

  (i) as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant,
  (ii) as a Highly Skilled Migrant,
  (iii) as a Work Permit Holder,
  (iv) as an Innovator,
  (v) as a Self-Employed Lawyer,
  (vi) as a Writer, Composer or Artist.

(c) The applicant must be economically active in the UK, in employment or self-employment or both.

(d) The applicant must have sufficient knowledge of the English language and sufficient knowledge about life in the United Kingdom, with reference to paragraphs 33B to 33F of these Rules, unless the applicant is under the age of 18 or aged 65 or over at the time the application is made.
A plain reading suggests that you must indeed not be unemployed when you apply for ILR. (¶33E-33F reference rules for extension of stay once ILR is applied for.)

Similar rules apply for HSMP ILR applicants:
Requirements for indefinite leave to remain as a highly skilled migrant

135G. The requirements for indefinite leave to remain for a person who has been granted leave as a highly skilled migrant are that the applicant:

(i) has spent a continuous period of 5 years lawfully in the United Kingdom, of which the most recent period must have been spent with leave as a highly skilled migrant (in accordance with paragraphs 135A to 135F of these Rules), and the remainder must be made up of leave as a highly skilled migrant, leave as a work permit holder (under paragraphs 128 to 133 of these Rules), or leave as an Innovator (under paragraphs 210A to 210F of these Rules); and

(ii) throughout the five years spent in the United Kingdom has been able to maintain and accommodate himself and any dependants adequately without recourse to public funds; and

(iii) is lawfully economically active in the United Kingdom in employment, self-employment or a combination of both; and

(iv) has sufficient knowledge of the English language and sufficient knowledge about life in the United Kingdom, unless he is under the age of 18 or aged 65 or over at the time he makes his application.

Indefinite leave to remain as a highly skilled migrant

135GA. Indefinite leave to remain may be granted provided that the Secretary of State is satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 135G is met and that the application does not fall for refusal under paragraph 135HA.

Refusal of indefinite leave to remain as a highly skilled migrant

135H. Indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom is to be refused if the Secretary of State is not satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 135G is met or if the application falls for refusal under paragraph 135HA.

Additional grounds for refusal for highly skilled migrants

135HA. An application under paragraphs 135A-135C or 135G-135H of these Rules is to be refused, even if the applicant meets all the requirements of those paragraphs, if the Immigration Officer or Secretary of State has cause to doubt the genuineness of any document submitted by the applicant and, having taken reasonable steps to verify the document, has been unable to verify that it is genuine.

webhunter
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Post by webhunter » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:52 pm

Thanks, that seem to indicate, indeed one needs to be economically active (employed) at the time of application.

I firmly believe it will additional headache to apply for ILR with out being employed at that time. However, I also would like to highlight that being economically active is also a requirement for extension. However, economically active (at least for extension) need not necessarily means employed, but alos active searching of employment.

Anyway, to conclude this thread I would say it is better to be in some form of employment at the time of ILR application. Although I think it is perfectly acceptable for some one to be out of work (for a few months time) during their 5 year period.

republique
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Post by republique » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:03 pm

webhunter wrote:Thanks, that seem to indicate, indeed one needs to be economically active (employed) at the time of application.

I firmly believe it will additional headache to apply for ILR with out being employed at that time. However, I also would like to highlight that being economically active is also a requirement for extension. However, economically active (at least for extension) need not necessarily means employed, but alos active searching of employment.

Anyway, to conclude this thread I would say it is better to be in some form of employment at the time of ILR application. Although I think it is perfectly acceptable for some one to be out of work (for a few months time) during their 5 year period.
And my first reply said just as much

QEF8DD
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Post by QEF8DD » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:36 pm

republique wrote: And my first reply said just as much
yeah.. but that was just proof #1.. at least two proofs from different sources are required to confirm the claim.. lol.. Starting to see the funny side of tier1 rules...:-)

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Post by mkniazi » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:07 pm

Is there any limit on earnings to be economically active?

shockboy2000
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Post by shockboy2000 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:47 am

Dear Sir/Madam,



Thank you for your enquiry.

The longest period that an applicant is able to be out of work during their 5-year period is 28 days. If there is a period of more than 28 days then their 5-year period would start again from the date that they take up a new job.

Yours faithfully,



xxx xxxx
Immigration Group
UK Border Agency

tech
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Post by tech » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:13 pm

This rule is applicable for work permit holders. not for HSMP or Tier1 . Hope this helps.

shockboy2000
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Post by shockboy2000 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:22 pm

tech wrote:This rule is applicable for work permit holders. not for HSMP or Tier1 . Hope this helps.
I certainly hope it is WP only, but my question to Borders Agency was very specific about me being on HSMP only, and they came back with this 28days business. Theyre going to process my ILR, not yourself unfortunately...hence a slight panic moment (as ive had to wait more than 28days between jobs to get SC clearances).

I might ask them again, to show the immigration law they are referring to...will be another few weeks to get a response...

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Post by Gob00st » Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:53 pm

shockboy2000 wrote:
tech wrote:This rule is applicable for work permit holders. not for HSMP or Tier1 . Hope this helps.
I certainly hope it is WP only, but my question to Borders Agency was very specific about me being on HSMP only, and they came back with this 28days business. Theyre going to process my ILR, not yourself unfortunately...hence a slight panic moment (as ive had to wait more than 28days between jobs to get SC clearances).

I might ask them again, to show the immigration law they are referring to...will be another few weeks to get a response...
28 days seems unreasonable for HSMP or Tier 1 holder. HSMP or Tier 1 holder is suppose to able to change between any valid jobs without any sponsor. How could they expecting only 28 days in total within 5 years for job changing?

Senior member or ILR holder please clarify.
Thanks.
Gob00st

shockboy2000
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Post by shockboy2000 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:30 pm

28 days seems unreasonable for HSMP or Tier 1 holder. HSMP or Tier 1 holder is suppose to able to change between any valid jobs without any sponsor. How could they expecting only 28 days in total within 5 years for job changing?

Senior member or ILR holder please clarify.
Thanks.
Gob00st[/quote]

28 days in 1 period/at one time, not total of 5 years.

How about just a person who got ILR with a period of unemployment on HSMP that was > 28 days at one single time, respond.
i.e. facts to contradict the statement i received from borders agency.

tech
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Post by tech » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:10 pm

28 days rule is based on caseworker guidance for processing work permit ILR applications. It is not mentioned anywhere in the any guidace notes for Tier1/HSMP holders where as for workpermit holders it is very clearly mentioned.After 28 days wp holders go out of status if they haven't secured a job and clock resets.

HSMP/tier 1 holders need to be economcally active and should be employed or self employed at the time of application.
They can't reject you because of this when there is no guidance explicity states this fact.

but new citizenship bill clearly makes this mandatory. while you are on probatioanry citzenship. out of 15 months, you need be employed 12 months otherwise. you will be rejected

ran
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Post by ran » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:17 pm

Hiya all,

Shockboy2000 is there any news on your ILR - hope there was no trouble.
But I think tech's take on the matter is correct. Probably the letter you got from HO was their standard reply in such cases and they didn't even bother to change it even though you mentioned that you were on HSMP and not WP visa. I have come across such experiences, in various member's posts about their correspondence with HO, in this forum itself.
Hope all goes well.

Regards,
Ran

shockboy2000
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Post by shockboy2000 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:45 am

ran wrote:Hiya all,

Shockboy2000 is there any news on your ILR - hope there was no trouble.
But I think tech's take on the matter is correct. Probably the letter you got from HO was their standard reply in such cases and they didn't even bother to change it even though you mentioned that you were on HSMP and not WP visa. I have come across such experiences, in various member's posts about their correspondence with HO, in this forum itself.
Hope all goes well.

Regards,
Ran
hi, no...i will b due for ILR in december this year if it's 4 years .

Reason for me asking: i had 5 weeks not working due to waiting for a security clearance to come through for a new job.

And possibly will have period of unemployment this year (but will go work at mcdonalds if i have to :)

i just wanted to clear up what economically active meant to Home Office, not what the ilr wanna-bes on this forum want it to mean.
Still keen to hear from someone who has had an ILR go through with some largish gaps in employment

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what is this 180 days rule

Post by maheshnair » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:15 am

Hi Guys ,

ILR also says ...you can be out of country for 3 months and also 180 days in a year .

Does this mean you are in-active economically in this period ....

Usually people on HSMP are contractors , they definitely will have 1-2 months breaks between contracts ............


I think,what they actually mean by 28 days is ...If you are on work permit and say ur current work permit gets cancelled by employer ...U have 28 days to get a new work permit ......

I know a lot of guys ......who is jobless for 3 months and getting ILR

shockboy2000
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Re: what is this 180 days rule

Post by shockboy2000 » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:22 am

maheshnair wrote:Hi Guys ,

ILR also says ...you can be out of country for 3 months and also 180 days in a year .

Does this mean you are in-active economically in this period ....

Usually people on HSMP are contractors , they definitely will have 1-2 months breaks between contracts ............


I think,what they actually mean by 28 days is ...If you are on work permit and say ur current work permit gets cancelled by employer ...U have 28 days to get a new work permit ......

I know a lot of guys ......who is jobless for 3 months and getting ILR
It's 180days TOTAL across the 4/5 year qualifying period, not each year. You could spend 1/2 your qualifying period out of the UK if it was 180 days a year...6months in uk, 6 months not :)

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Post by boonworkpermit » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:45 pm

I will apply for ILR in a few months.
I was out of job for more than 5 months recently. :shock:
I basically took a break from my last employment for
three months (doing nothing for two months and
traveling out of country for one month) and started
looking for a job during the last two months of the gap.
I am currently full time employed and will be when I apply for ILR.

I will let you know soon whether they decide against my ILR.
:roll:

imb-victor
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Post by imb-victor » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:37 pm

boonworkpermit,

Any update on the success of your ILR application.

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