E.U States Allowing Visa free Travel-E.U Fam&Residence c

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:01 pm

In Italy you will get the very same card and the very same rights, apart from the possibility to apply for Italian citizenship in 6 months, which is reserved for the spouse of Italian nationals.

charles4u · Post by **charles4u** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:12 pm

Why would some get a different card in the same country as a family member of an EU citizen, I just believe its so unrealistic as the country is a member of EU, Their citizens should be EU citizens then I guess automatically their family member becomes family member of an EU...

I got some information saying Nederlands and UK including Poland dont consider their citizens EU citizens when living in their national country ( or is it when living in another EU country ? ), so maybe that makes their family member automatically not an EU family member.

I want to understand this things...Like someone not considered EU citizen but can go with ID to another Eu country,Can take up employment without working permit and can claim rights..

So what else does this country's citizens (UK, Poland and Nederlands) needs to be qualify under EU citizens rights cus to me they have all already. This EU law is just so funny with so much complications, some using national law while some uses EU law.

Then I guess Richard is right...just Italy-Spain-Romania-France are pure EU citizens and their family members gets its automatically.

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:26 pm

I couldn't find information about Cyprus in this thread, so checked the embassy website, and apparently Cyprus admits family members in possession of a Residence Card.
See http://www.mfa.gov.cy/mfa/highcom/highc ... enDocument, and especially section F

F. Spouses/ Dependants of Europian Union citizens

Â· In accordance with the European Union Directive No. 2004/ 58/ EC of 29/04/2004, third country nationals, who are spouses or dependants of EU citizens do NOT require a visa to enter the Republic of Cyprus, on the condition that they are resident in an EU country and are in possession of a residency permit. Those persons travelling without a visa in accordance with the above regulation must have in their possession documentation proving their relationship to an EU citizen. In other words their residency permit if the relationship is stated on it and if not the marriage certificate and a copy of the spouses passport.

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:09 pm

That really does leave only the UK and Ireland.

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:49 pm

Richard66 wrote:That really does leave only the UK and Ireland.

Not if you believe some embassies, see the London embassies of Austria, France, Finland and maybe more.

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:41 am

86ti wrote:Austria.

And after 6+ months the Austrian MFA even managed to inform their London embassy and publish it on their embassy web site. Interestingly under 'How to Apply for a Visa' but no information in the 'Do I Need a Visa?' section...

Austrian Embassy/London wrote:SPOUSE/DEPENDANT of EU/EEA NATIONALS:

You will NOT need a visa to visit Austria for a maximum of 90 days, if you are:

* A family member of an EU/EEA national
* AND if you hold a British â€œResidence Card of a Family Member of an EEA Nationalâ€

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:56 am

You know I would not really take embassiesÃ¬ and consulates' Internet sites as evidence of anything. I have found out that at times the sites of two different consulates in the same country say two different things and both wrong. It is best to stick to the law and to jurisprudence.

The same goes for forms: I, for example, in another case, have the law on my side, though the information on the form I need to fill in to claim my right contradicts the law the form is based on. Which should I trust? The law or the form? Which should we trust? The embassy or the law?

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:03 am

Richard66 wrote:You know I would not really take embassiesÃ¬ and consulates' Internet sites as evidence of anything. I have found out that at times the sites of two different consulates in the same country say two different things and both wrong. It is best to stick to the law and to jurisprudence.

My point relates to a recent question to easyJet at Liverpool airport (which I faild to mention). Unsurprisingly, they had no clue (they lady there had to phone someone else up) but said that they would contact the embassy to clarify. If they couldn't do that they would ask the border police.

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:46 pm

The airline is incompetent. They call the embassy and speak to the cleaner who happens to be dusting the phone at the time and anything goes. Did I not have boarding refused because the airline spoke to the first person who answered the phone and gave an opinion? The opinion was that my wife would have been denied entry if not in possession of a visa and you know as well as I do that the EEA immigration rules do not say that. The problem there was, just as I say, that what some loggerhead at the Embassy said counted more than the EEA rules, Directive 2004/38 and letters from the EC combined.

We might as well abolish the law and rely entirely on opinion.

Living in Italy has taught me that if you want your rights respected you need to take a printout of the law along with you and be prepared to throw your weight about.

Speaking of that, I recently asked a lawyer for an opinion (official). I had to call his attention after he produced it that he had based himself on a law which was no longer in force.

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:14 pm

Hi there I wonder if someone can help me with this,

Cyprus Embassy would not give me entery visa for cyprus because my residence card application is still in process in UK.
her is my case

Hi Darlinfe,
I am Indian,
my wife is greek cypriot (cyprus national)
I and my wife both work and live in UK, she is execising EU treat in UK
I have applied for EEA2 in sept 2008 6 months before
I was on HSMP till november 2008.
I am waiting for HO to process my application.
I have planed to go to Cyprus in the last week of March, so I have one month in hand.

Cyprus embassy said they won't give entery as my visa status in uk is not clear.

I think they are not treating as EU national family member because My wife is cypriot not from another EU nation ( silly isn't it, they give freedom of movement to family member of other states, but to the family member of their nationals, even they are part of cyprus)

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Regards
Shaz

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:21 pm

Tyro wrote:I think they are not treating as EU national family member because My wife is cypriot not from another EU nation ( silly isn't it, they give freedom of movement to family member of other states, but to the family member of their nationals, even they are part of cyprus)

I have answered you question already. They don't give you a visa before you can proof your legal residence in the UK as they said. They wouldn't issue a visa if your wife were from another EEA country either.

Your case has nothing to do with this thread. Only with embassy policies.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:29 pm

86ti wrote:They don't give you a visa before you can proof your legal residence in the UK as they said. ...

There is no residency requirement for visas for family members of EU citizens. A number of ECJ decisions has made this clear.

Also note that the UK has no requirement that family members of EU citizens get a Residence Card. It is entirely optional. The person is resident in the UK even if they do not have a Residence Card.

86ti wrote:Your case has nothing to do with this thread.

Good point. Lets start a new thread for this!

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:15 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
86ti wrote:They don't give you a visa before you can proof your legal residence in the UK as they said. ...
There is no residency requirement for visas for family members of EU citizens. A number of ECJ decisions has made this clear.

Also note that the UK has no requirement that family members of EU citizens get a Residence Card. It is entirely optional. The person is resident in the UK even if they do not have a Residence Card.

Right! Totally forgot about that. The embassy obviously wants the HO to do all the bloody work for them.

Still, I don't see a discrimination based on nationality.

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:21 am

Hi Guru and 86ti,

So please advise where do I stand now,

my wife is cypriot and exercising EU treaty in UK.
We want to travel to cyprus but Cyprus embassy asked me residence card in UK,

my residence card application is in process since last 6 months and may take few months,

please advise how I can convince cyprus embassy that I am allowed to get entery on the basis of new EU rules.

Many Thanks

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:28 am

Tyro wrote:So please advise where do I stand now

You can ask SOLVIT Cyprus to assist you but don't hold your breath getting anything resolved within the next month. Also, don't forget that you have to convince the airline let you board on return.

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:47 am

Thanks there,
SOLVIT is already looking into this for me.

how I can convince the authority on my return,
do i have to get a family permit to come back UK as well.

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:01 pm

Tyro wrote:how I can convince the authority on my return, do i have to get a family permit to come back UK as well.

Your problem is the airline. UK border control should be fine with the CoA alone. You can try to ask the airline to contact the border police in advance/at check-in. But that seems risky.

Having a FP would be your best option. You would need to find out how long the BHC in Cyrpus needs to process your application.

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:15 pm

86ti wrote:I just sampled "the world's most reliable travel information source" Timaticweb which is used by airlines to determine visa requirrments (but obviously not by all). The database is accessible through Delta and Emirates. It appears to have been updated recently.

To make it short I just list the EU member countries that would not accept family member residence permits (that is, what the database makers think): Austria, Denmark, Lithuania, Slovakia and the UK. I checked for a resident of the UK and also Ireland, but entries for Bulgaria, Cyprus and Romania appear all to be the same. In fact, the information generated by the web interface seems template based but the text is not always the same for different countries.

The negative list is now: Lithuania, Slovakia and the UK. In the case of the first two nothing is mentioned for family members whereas for the UK only it's own issued residence card would entitle to entry and the airlines are explicitly warned not to let anyone board who claims to be a family member.

Skiingswede1980 · Post by **Skiingswede1980** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:24 am

Hi,

I am a Swedish national living in the UK. My South African wife has a family member residence permit here in the UK and she has successfully travelled to Sweden with myself without a visa.

From the above thread I understand that she should be able to travel to France together with myself visa-free as well but the embasssy says she needs a visa.

Has anyone actually tried and succeeded in entering France on a family member residence permit together with their EU national partner/spouse?

Any feedback is much appreciated!!

Plum70 · Post by **Plum70** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:50 am

Skiingswede1980 wrote:Hi,
I am a Swedish national living in the UK. My South African wife has a family member residence permit here in the UK

A FMRS is only applicable to non-EEA family members of A8 nationals. As you are Swedish, I believe you meant to say UK residence card?

When I travelled with my husband to France last year, my schengen visa (not UK residence card) was examined at the UK airport before I was allowed to check in. No checks on entering Ferney-Voltaire, but on exit at CDG, the airline check-in staff struggled to comprehend that my UK residence card was valid for entry and residence in the UK. I had to explain at each check point that it was not a UK visa but a residence permit issued to non-EEA family members.

I therefore feel that one may struggle to convince UK airline staff in the 1st place (and if successful by some miracle) and if stopped on entry to France, the IOs may not have a clue what entitlement a UK residence card holder has.

Skiingswede1980 · Post by **Skiingswede1980** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:55 pm

Plum70,

Yes, she indeed has a UK residence card.

She has also travelled to France numerous times with a Schengen visa without any problems and as mentioned she has travelled with me to Sweden visa free without any trouble. In theory (and according to the posts in this forum) it should also be possible for her to travel visa-free when travelling with me to France.

She currently has a Schengen visa that is still valid and we're actually going to France in the next few weeks and I will take the opportunity to ask an immigration officer if they would allow her to enter without a Schengen visa (I speak French so there won't be any language barrier...).

I'm very interested to know if someone with a EEA2 UK Residence Card on this forum has been able to travel visa free with their EU national partner.

Thanks

Skiingswede1980 · Post by **Skiingswede1980** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:37 pm

I've now raised my issue with SOLVIT. Let's see what they can do!

giruzz · Post by **giruzz** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:07 pm

Skiingswede1980 wrote:Plum70,

Yes, she indeed has a UK residence card.

She has also travelled to France numerous times with a Schengen visa without any problems and as mentioned she has travelled with me to Sweden visa free without any trouble. In theory (and according to the posts in this forum) it should also be possible for her to travel visa-free when travelling with me to France.

She currently has a Schengen visa that is still valid and we're actually going to France in the next few weeks and I will take the opportunity to ask an immigration officer if they would allow her to enter without a Schengen visa (I speak French so there won't be any language barrier...).

I'm very interested to know if someone with a EEA2 UK Residence Card on this forum has been able to travel visa free with their EU national partner.

Thanks

I've asked at both the embassy and at the passport check in King's Cross and the answer has been NO! YOU NEED A VISA.

giruzz

Post by **ca.funke** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:10 am

giruzz wrote:...if someone with a EEA2 UK Residence Card on this forum has been able to travel visa free with their EU national partner....

My wife and me (Lebanese/German) successfully entered France with an Irish 4EUFam-Card on a ferry from Rosslare to Cherbourg.

No questions, no nothing, just "bon voyage"...

The French embassy in Dublin >>advised that a visa is necessary<< - a hint that I chose to ignore.

Plum70 · Post by **Plum70** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:28 pm

ca.funke wrote:
giruzz wrote: My wife and me (Lebanese/German) successfully entered France with an Irish 4EUFam-Card on a ferry from Rosslare to Cherbourg.
No questions, no nothing, just "bon voyage"...
The French embassy in Dublin >>advised that a visa is necessary<< - a hint that I chose to ignore.

Rightly so! The French embassy in London has now confirmed that schengen visas are no longer required for non-EEA family members of EU citizens in possession of a UK residence card, provided that they are accompanying or joining their spouses.

See: http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/Visa-websi ... rench.html

FINALLY!!!

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

E.U States Allowing Visa free Travel-E.U Fam&Residence c

Re: Austria

Cyprus Embassy denied to give entery

Re: Cyprus Embassy denied to give entery

Re: Cyprus Embassy denied to give entery

Re: Cyprus Embassy denied to give entery

Cypriot family member not considered EU family member

Re: Cypriot family member not considered EU family member

Convince the Airport authority

Re: Convince the Airport authority

Re: Timaticweb

France

Re: France

SOLVIT