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Visa gap In ILR application due to home office problems

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tshan
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Visa gap In ILR application due to home office problems

Post by tshan » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:34 pm

Dear friends,
I have a query about the visa gap in 5 yrs of WP(ICT)/Tier 2 ICT in my case.

Workpermit 1 - entry clearance
22/08/2006 till 31/12/2006 - OK
Workpermit 2 - extension
19/12/2006 till 31/12/2007 - OK
Workpermit 3- extension
15/11/2007 till 31/12/2008 - OK
Workpermit 4- extension
02/02/2009 till 31/12/2010 - Issue: 1

Tier 2 ICT- extension
05/01/2011 till 09/11/2012 - Issue: 2

Issue :1
If you notice above there is a gap during the extension of workpermit 3 and start of workpermit 4, because homeoffice have misunderstood a withdrawal case from my company with my same surname. Finally my company explained the situation and got my workpermit extended starting from 02/02/2009. I have the email communication between case worker and my company along with a proper covering letter from my company.Actual original application to home office was made on 03rd Dec 2008 by my company.

Issue:2
My latest work permit extension was applied well before expiry i.e., before 31/12/2010 but I received biometrics resident permit card this time after attending the biometrics interview in the month of dec 2010 just before christmas. But the resident permit card was issued after christmas with start date as 05/01/2011 valid until 09/11/2012.

My question is
"Will the above two issues affect my settlement ILR application which I am planning to apply during the month of Aug 2011."

Note: I have discussed ILR eligibilty with combination of both workpermit (ICT) and Tier 2 ICT in a different thread. Conclusion is "I m eligible"

Kindly help me in getting my above question answered.

Thanks
Tshan

John
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Post by John » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:45 pm

Welcome to Section 3C ! That is, if you have a valid visa and before the expiry of that visa you apply for a new visa, if the application has not been decided before the expiry date of the old visa, then that old visa is treated as continuing, even though the stated expiry date has passed, until the new visa is issued, or if the application is rejected then it continues until the expiry date of appealing against that rejection, and extended further if an appeal is lodged.

Does that help?
John

tshan
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Am I Eligible?

Post by tshan » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:40 am

Thanks John. So that means in my case there is no problem in the gap?

John
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Post by John » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:41 am

As long as the application for the new visa was made before the expiry of the old visa, the fact that the new visa starts after the stated expiry date of the old visa does not cause a problem .... thanks to Section 3C.
John

zinao
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Post by zinao » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:07 pm

John wrote:Welcome to Section 3C ! That is, if you have a valid visa and before the expiry of that visa you apply for a new visa, if the application has not been decided before the expiry date of the old visa, then that old visa is treated as continuing, even though the stated expiry date has passed, until the new visa is issued, or if the application is rejected then it continues until the expiry date of appealing against that rejection, and extended further if an appeal is lodged.

Does that help?
hello John i heard that if your visa is rejected as invalid then you dont qulify for section 3C

John
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Post by John » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:31 pm

i heard that if your visa is rejected as invalid then you dont qulify for section 3C
Do you mean "i heard that if your visa application is rejected as invalid then you dont qulify for section 3C"? If so, that is you make an application for a visa, and the application is rejected, the "Section 3C protection" will last until the expiry of the period for appealing against that rejection, except if an appeal is indeed submitted, the "Section 3C protection" lasts until the appeal is heard, and if it is again rejected, until the time for appealing against that, etc..!
John

vinny
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Post by vinny » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:18 am

It's complicated by the UKBA's distinction between valid and invalid applications. Section 3C/3D protection is undermined if the UKBA declared an application as "invalid" (34A) after leave has expired. They may treat an "invalid" application to be as if there had been no application made. Therefore, Section 3C was never triggered. Overstayers also have no right of appeal, nor right to work. Plus possible re-entry ban, subject to concession (no more concession, unless biometrics failure exception?). This may raise issues of fairness, especially when the UKBA has repealed (4.3) 17(1). However, it may be difficult. See also Another secret policy.

Note that from 1st August 2003 until 29 February 2008, they were supposed to request extra details and give you 28 days to respond before declaring an application as invalid.

Effective from 6 November 2014,
34C(b) wrote:The decision maker may contact the applicant or their representative in writing and give the applicant a single opportunity to correct any omission or error which renders the application invalid. The amended application and/or any requested documents must be received at the address specified in the request within 10 business days of the date on which the request was sent.”.
See also Home Office Applications: The Very Things That Are Likely to Get An Application Rejected As Invalid By The Home Office

Inbuilt obstacles and mechanisms that the Home Office use to defeat, deny and deter immigration claims.

Briefing: invalid immigration applications

Do keep a copy of your application, including payment details.
Last edited by vinny on Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:55 pm, edited 54 times in total.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

zinao
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Post by zinao » Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:42 am

hello vinny

do you know of any case or caselaw at the tribunal that has focused on the section 3C, in terms of valid and invalid applications.

i am just worried as many people including myself have become overstayers because their passports have been in the home office for 2 wks or more following an invalid application.

i just want to know if this can be challenged.

this is just weird as many universities are advising their students that they have 28 days from the UKBA letter to submit a new application. Mean while when you submit it is out of time.

vinny
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Post by vinny » Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:28 am

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

zinao
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Post by zinao » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:44 am

thanks vinny

i will see a lawyer and put the question to them.

i have found this case, http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKIAT/2007/00043.html

and nos 8 looks appealing in terms of section C. i know it differs from the ind instructions but my leave was valid when i first made my application.

vinny
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Post by vinny » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:11 am

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

fxd79
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Post by fxd79 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:21 am

There appears to be confusion about this matter. Would it help if we make public request for information from UKBA to clarify this issue?

As far as I am concerned, public authority is bound to respond to FOI requests promptly under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act 2000, but not later than 20 working days after receipt of the request.

vinny
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Post by vinny » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:44 am

zinao wrote:do you know of any case or caselaw at the tribunal that has focused on the section 3C, in terms of valid and invalid applications.
More:

BE (application fee: effect of non-payment) Mauritius [2008] UKAIT 00089
Forrester, R (on the application of) v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2008] EWHC 2307 (Admin) (05 September 2008)
Haq, R (on the application of) v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2009] EWHC 357 (Admin) (23 January 2009)
JH (Zimbabwe) v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2009] EWCA Civ 78 (19 February 2009) (variation of application)
US and MV (PBS applicants from same family) Malaysia [2010] UKUT 167 (IAC)
Merrimen -Johnson, R (On the Application Of) v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2010] EWHC 1598 (Admin) (26 March 2010)
Walker, R (on the application of) v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2010] EWHC 2473 (Admin) (29 June 2010)
Fu v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2010] EWHC Civ 2922 (Admin)
Ajayi, R (on the application of) v First Tier Tribunal & Anor [2011] EWHC 1793 (Admin) (01 June 2011)
Mine & Ors, R (on the application of) v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2011] EWHC 2337 (Admin) (09 September 2011)
Kishver (Limited leave : meaning) Pakistan [2011] UKUT 410 (IAC) (05 October 2011)
Kobir, R (on the application of) v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2011] EWHC 2515 (Admin) (06 October 2011)
Kisuule, R (on the application of) v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2011] EWHC 2966 (Admin) (16 November 2011)
Castro, R (on the application of) v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2012] EWHC 281 (Admin) (03 February 2012)
Basnet (validity of application - respondent) Nepal [2012] UKUT 113 (IAC) (04 April 2012)
Chowdhury, R (on the application of) v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2014] EWHC 59 (Admin) (24 January 2014)
Ved and another (appealable decisions; permission applications; Basnet) [2014] UKUT 150 (IAC) > Ved & Anor (appealable decisions; permission applications; Basnet) (Tanzania) [2014] UKUT 150 (IAC) (27 March 2014).
Iqbal & Ors, R (on the application of) v The Secretary of State for the Home Department [2015] EWCA Civ 838 (30 July 2015) rejects Section 3C concession wrt invalid applications.
Last edited by vinny on Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:15 am, edited 15 times in total.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

zinao
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Post by zinao » Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:42 am

thanks Vinny

but

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Adm ... /2922.html makes interesting reading especially the 21 paragraph where it states that:

"In this case the application form makes it clear that the photographs are mandatory. The covering letter states they are provided. The resubmitted application gives no reason for an exercise of discretion. In sofar as Mr de Mello's submissions rely on discretion, this is not a case like Forrester's case where the grounds for exercising discretion were before the defendant but the defendant did not exercise it."


In my case i did not tick one mandatory box that dealt with benefits but in the caseworker instructions it states that discretion could be exercised if the info is in another part of the application, in my case, my NI nos. the claimant in that case also did not raise any issue about section 3 and he was offered discretion to submit new photos whereas in my application i was not offered nothing even though i asked for during my resubmitted application.

Secondly when i submitted my second application i used the same photos which at that time was more than a month old. in practical terms that application should have been invalid again, since the homeoffice did not accept the invalid appliction arguement. i just find it crazy that the sec of state will use discretion in one part of application to kep the fee but not in another. if ou dont call that dispoportionate i dont know what else is.
Last edited by zinao on Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

vinny
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Post by vinny » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:19 am

zinao wrote:In my case i did not tick one mandatory box that dealt with benefits but in the caseworker instructions it states that discretion could be exercised if the info is in another part of the application, in my case, my NI nos. the claimant in that case also did not raise any issue about section 3 and he was offered discretion to submit new photos whereas in my application i was not offered nothing even though i asked for during my resubmitted application.

36
zinao wrote:Secondly when i submitted my second application i used the same photos which at that time was more than a month old. in practical terms that application should have been invalid again, since the homeoffice did not accept the invalid appliction arguement. i just find it crazy that the sec of state will use discretion in one part of application but not in another. if ou dont call that disportionate i dont know what else is.
39 wrote:Finally, submissions were made that the Secretary of State did not notify the Claimant that she had a discretion which she could exercise. It was submitted that the Claimant should have been notified so that she in fact had the opportunity to make submissions as to why discretion should have been exercised in her favour. In my judgment there can be no possible mileage in that submission. If that submission were right it would follow that in every application that is made the Secretary of State would have to notify applicants whose applications would otherwise fail that she had a discretion and invite submissions. That would undermine the whole system, designed as it is with a simple form with clear questions and mandatory requirements to be dealt with by way of tick boxes. This would lead to arguments in every case as to what would be suitable for discretion and impose burdens on the Secretary of State which, in my judgment, would be wholly unacceptable and cannot properly be said to be part of her obligations. I further accept the submissions of Mr Evans that if the issue of discretion arose at all, it would have arisen at the time of the submission of the second application. He suggested, for example, that if the second application had been submitted indicating that the reason the first application was wrong was, say, that the UK Border Agency website was not working and it was not possible to establish the requirements at the time of the first application, then that information would provide information on which the issue of discretion might have to have been visited. It is not, in my judgment, nor could it ever properly be said to be part of the Secretary of State's function to notify the Claimant that she has a discretion and to invite the submission on matters going to that discretion. If there are matters in front of the Secretary of State which require her to consider whether to exercise her discretion, she plainly must take those matters into account, but she does not, in my judgment, have to write and ask for them.
Unfortunately, this seems to disregard the perhaps fairer 17(1)(b) provision that was previously in force until 2008. Its absence undermines the statutory protection normally provided by Section 3C. Sadly, expediency at the expense of justice is apparently becoming more and more acceptable?
Last edited by vinny on Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

zinao
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Post by zinao » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:06 am

39 wrote:Finally, submissions were made that the Secretary of State did not notify the Claimant that she had a discretion which she could exercise. It was submitted that the Claimant should have been notified so that she in fact had the opportunity to make submissions as to why discretion should have been exercised in her favour. In my judgment there can be no possible mileage in that submission. If that submission were right it would follow that in every application that is made the Secretary of State would have to notify applicants whose applications would otherwise fail that she had a discretion and invite submissions. That would undermine the whole system, designed as it is with a simple form with clear questions and mandatory requirements to be dealt with by way of tick boxes. This would lead to arguments in every case as to what would be suitable for discretion and impose burdens on the Secretary of State which, in my judgment, would be wholly unacceptable and cannot properly be said to be part of her obligations. I further accept the submissions of Mr Evans that if the issue of discretion arose at all, it would have arisen at the time of the submission of the second application. He suggested, for example, that if the second application had been submitted indicating that the reason the first application was wrong was, say, that the UK Border Agency website was not working and it was not possible to establish the requirements at the time of the first application, then that information would provide information on which the issue of discretion might have to have been visited. It is not, in my judgment, nor could it ever properly be said to be part of the Secretary of State's function to notify the Claimant that she has a discretion and to invite the submission on matters going to that discretion. If there are matters in front of the Secretary of State which require her to consider whether to exercise her discretion, she plainly must take those matters into account, but she does not, in my judgment, have to write and ask for them.
Unfortunately, this seems to disregard the perhaps fairer 17(1)(b) provision that was previously in force until 2008. Its absence undermines the statutory protection normally provided by Section 3C. Sadly, expediency at the expense of justice is apparently becoming more and more acceptable?
i am sure anyone that states "discretion" in their appeal, the treasury dpt will use this paragraph in their defence. i dont know why the applicant did not mention section 3C had been eroded. this ruling will now affect others. furthermore neither of the rulings mentioned anything about section 3C which is important as the home office states that invalid applications dont qualify for section 3C so resubmitted refused application would have no right of appeal. With the ruling above, how will someone know that they had the right of appeal after an invaild visa, when it does not state anything on the application form that but gives you an option to apply again.

modanger
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ILR GAP

Post by modanger » Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:23 pm

Dear Vinny,

My situation is quite different having a gap in my lawful stay. My first application made before visa expire but returned invalid. Second application accepted as valid then i was granted LTR in 2003. It was resubmitted with in 28 days.

My question is, do you really think that my second application had carried out 28 days. I was not given 28 days in rejection letter? This is clear that my second application was aknowledged as valid on 06 August 2003 because of 01 August 2003 regulations were already in force. If not, how did the HO extract a gap in my lawful stay.

I hope you will reply me back.

Regards,
mo

zinao
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Re: ILR GAP

Post by zinao » Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:47 pm

modanger wrote:Dear Vinny,

My situation is quite different having a gap in my lawful stay. My first application made before visa expire but returned invalid. Second application accepted as valid then i was granted LTR in 2003. It was resubmitted with in 28 days.

My question is, do you really think that my second application had carried out 28 days. I was not given 28 days in rejection letter? This is clear that my second application was aknowledged as valid on 06 August 2003 because of 01 August 2003 regulations were already in force. If not, how did the HO extract a gap in my lawful stay.

I hope you will reply me back.

Regards,
mo
mo pls tell us what the home office says about the gap and the 28 days as it may be beneficial to everyone. i personally think the ho hand out different letters to different ppl

vinny
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Post by vinny » Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:22 pm

modanger, I'm not sure how invalid applications were defined and processed prior to 1st August 2003.
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