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SRAQAI
Member of Standing
Joined: 07 Jul 2011
Posts: 148
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 Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: |
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We have tried for a french schengan entry visa since July 2011 and my husband does not want to go through the whole embassy process again... which in Pakistan is time costing, tiring and requires time off work and long distance travel... my husband has been put under a lot of hardship by the French Embassy, they have really put him on the runaround. If we do this, I think we will just do it, by getting an airline to co-operate by educating them on the Directive (most likely Emirates airlines) and then go onto a Schengan country which have an understanding of the Directive.
Do you think Germany is the best place to show up at the border without a visa and try entrance under the Directive? This is getting very tedious now, to the extent that its affecting our marriage personally. My husband is just fed up to the point now where he doesn't even want to go any more, because of the runaround.
Which countries in Schengan, do you think understand the rules the most? Thanks so much for the advise 
| Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: | | SRAQAI wrote: | | The reason why I chose France (Paris in particular) is because of its easy access to London. Ill need to travel a few times a week to London and also, I want to do business in Paris, so it makes sense to do it in France. I have been thinking about Ireland though... considering its an English speaking country... |
But why France for the Schengen visa? You could just as well apply for a German visa and go there together, and then on to France. Or Norway, and go there first together and then on to ??? Spain.
I would try Germany myself. |
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frei
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Joined: 07 May 2012
Posts: 319
Location: Deutschland
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:04 am Post subject: |
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OP, do not be dismayed yet, you will eventually get your husband a schengen visa, It wouldn't matter which country understand the directive more once you try to get to the border. personally as hard head as I am I would prefer a country which doesn't understand the directive once i get to their border of course I will be having the final laugh.
The Irish border guards once tried to ignore the directive, and detained a spouse of a Romanian national as they claimed " entering the state without the necessary visa", the case went to court, and of course the judge had to lecture them on the law, and ordered them to pay some hefty fee to the plaintiff.
Please try to talk your husband through, please try as much as you can to ignore the EU institution as have found them utterly useless including the MEP, I will tell you what they are good at (ACKNOWLEDGEMENT), they are very good at acknowledging your complaints, and they will take about 2 months to write a complete undesiring reply to tell you why your complaint doesn't fall within their remit or some nonsense.
The flagrant abuse of the EU law makes the institution a joke some times, personally have found the Germans more respectful and adhering. If you ever get the golden chance to get your husband on a Paris bound flight, please fill yourself with joy as that will be your only chance to hurt them entering without a visa pisses them off, and I'd just like them to be on the receiving end and see how it hurts. The worst case scenario would be detaining your husband in France and its very very unlikely, unlikely I say because the French borders are smarter to know it wouldn't end up good with them. the court is your last resort worst case it gets to the CJEU, and you know before it gets to that point a judge with a common sense would have awarded you your rights, there are enough verdicts on this issue already than going for a new one.
You could certainly apply at the German embassy if there is any in Pakistan, try and exchange few correspondence with them before submitting your husbands application, if they pretend not to understand the directive please post back I will guide you on how to go.
Good luck |
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EUsmileWEallsmile
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Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 4584
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| SRAQAI wrote: | We have tried for a french schengan entry visa since July 2011 and my husband does not want to go through the whole embassy process again... which in Pakistan is time costing, tiring and requires time off work and long distance travel... my husband has been put under a lot of hardship by the French Embassy, they have really put him on the runaround. If we do this, I think we will just do it, by getting an airline to co-operate by educating them on the Directive (most likely Emirates airlines) and then go onto a Schengan country which have an understanding of the Directive.
Do you think Germany is the best place to show up at the border without a visa and try entrance under the Directive? This is getting very tedious now, to the extent that its affecting our marriage personally. My husband is just fed up to the point now where he doesn't even want to go any more, because of the runaround.
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If your husband got to a border with you he would be admitted. Getting to a border is an entirely different matter though. Flying from Pakistan, via Dubai (or anywhere else) to France without a visa is likely to lead to denial of boarding.
Interestingly, spouses of EU nationals do not need a transit visa, so you could in theory be able to transit France if your husband had documentation for his final destination.
I understand it is frustrating, but if you can get the visa for France sorted, either by the appeal route or a fresh application, it will be much better for you. |
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newbieholland
Member of Standing
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:45 am Post subject: |
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SRAQAI Why don`t you consider the Netherlands? I doubt with a Pakistani passport your hubby can get on any flights to EU regardless of where you trying to board it from. I had similar issues in the past but NL seem to have worked for me. I can literally provide you step by step guide to get through to this. Let me know if you need any assistance and I will PM you.
Good luck with your endeavour.
_________________
"The time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining." |
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SRAQAI
Member of Standing
Joined: 07 Jul 2011
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| frei wrote: | OP, do not be dismayed yet, you will eventually get your husband a schengen visa, It wouldn't matter which country understand the directive more once you try to get to the border. personally as hard head as I am I would prefer a country which doesn't understand the directive once i get to their border of course I will be having the final laugh.
The Irish border guards once tried to ignore the directive, and detained a spouse of a Romanian national as they claimed " entering the state without the necessary visa", the case went to court, and of course the judge had to lecture them on the law, and ordered them to pay some hefty fee to the plaintiff.
Please try to talk your husband through, please try as much as you can to ignore the EU institution as have found them utterly useless including the MEP, I will tell you what they are good at (ACKNOWLEDGEMENT), they are very good at acknowledging your complaints, and they will take about 2 months to write a complete undesiring reply to tell you why your complaint doesn't fall within their remit or some nonsense.
The flagrant abuse of the EU law makes the institution a joke some times, personally have found the Germans more respectful and adhering. If you ever get the golden chance to get your husband on a Paris bound flight, please fill yourself with joy as that will be your only chance to hurt them entering without a visa pisses them off, and I'd just like them to be on the receiving end and see how it hurts. The worst case scenario would be detaining your husband in France and its very very unlikely, unlikely I say because the French borders are smarter to know it wouldn't end up good with them. the court is your last resort worst case it gets to the CJEU, and you know before it gets to that point a judge with a common sense would have awarded you your rights, there are enough verdicts on this issue already than going for a new one.
You could certainly apply at the German embassy if there is any in Pakistan, try and exchange few correspondence with them before submitting your husbands application, if they pretend not to understand the directive please post back I will guide you on how to go.
Good luck |
Thank you so much for your advise. This is what I am worried about. I dont want to see my husband being detained at the French border, I wouldn't even know who to call or what to do... I think id need to research on French based EU Immigration rights institutions in France before we leave. Yes, I have made so many various complaints to various institutions and you are absolutely right. I complained to the EU Ombudsman and of course my complaint "didn't fall into the scope of their work". The UK SOLVIT know this very well and are playing the situation to their advantage. I don't know what they get out of it. Its highly frustrating to say the least.
I have emailed, last week, a contact at the UK based BIS, who deals with Posted workers and self employed people within the EU. All I did was ask for the A1 form in order to post myself to France as a self employed person, but to keep myself under the UK welfare and tax system. I still haven't got a reply from them yet. From the down rotten basic to the higher end of the EU institutions, they are all utterly useless. Even getting my rights as a British Citizen in order to work in France seems like a chore. |
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frei
BANNED
Joined: 07 May 2012
Posts: 319
Location: Deutschland
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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de
Last edited by frei on Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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frei
BANNED
Joined: 07 May 2012
Posts: 319
Location: Deutschland
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| SRAQAI wrote: | Thank you so much for your advise. This is what I am worried about. I dont want to see my husband being detained at the French border, I wouldn't even know who to call or what to do... I think id need to research on French based EU Immigration rights institutions in France before we leave. Yes, I have made so many various complaints to various institutions and you are absolutely right. I complained to the EU Ombudsman and of course my complaint "didn't fall into the scope of their work". The UK SOLVIT know this very well and are playing the situation to their advantage. I don't know what they get out of it. Its highly frustrating to say the least.
I have emailed, last week, a contact at the UK based BIS, who deals with Posted workers and self employed people within the EU. All I did was ask for the A1 form in order to post myself to France as a self employed person, but to keep myself under the UK welfare and tax system. I still haven't got a reply from them yet. From the down rotten basic to the higher end of the EU institutions, they are all utterly useless. Even getting my rights as a British Citizen in order to work in France seems like a chore. |
Ah! forget the buffoons that run the EU offices, everyone is there for their pockets, they don't have us in mind. In the unlikely event that your husband was detained in France he surely will be giving a legal representation, they wouldn't start a proceeding against him and expect him to provide for himself a representation except he had opted to do so.
Do not be stuck with the french, try other embassies as aforementioned German preferably. my friend had to apply to about 4 different EU embassies as a spouse of EU citizen before he got lucky on the 4th one. mine though was straight forward with the Germans have found them very formal in their handling of visa applications. if however, you encounter any issue with the Germans kindly post back, and I will be happy to be of help.
Good luck.
Last edited by frei on Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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frei
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Directive/2004/38/EC
Guru
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 6418
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Your husband will need to have a visa to get on a plane. The question is simply where will you be flying to, and therefore which visa you will want to apply for.
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Directive 2004/38/EC lays out free movement rules for EU citizens and their non-EU family members
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SRAQAI
Member of Standing
Joined: 07 Jul 2011
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| EUsmileWEallsmile wrote: | | SRAQAI wrote: | We have tried for a french schengan entry visa since July 2011 and my husband does not want to go through the whole embassy process again... which in Pakistan is time costing, tiring and requires time off work and long distance travel... my husband has been put under a lot of hardship by the French Embassy, they have really put him on the runaround. If we do this, I think we will just do it, by getting an airline to co-operate by educating them on the Directive (most likely Emirates airlines) and then go onto a Schengan country which have an understanding of the Directive.
Do you think Germany is the best place to show up at the border without a visa and try entrance under the Directive? This is getting very tedious now, to the extent that its affecting our marriage personally. My husband is just fed up to the point now where he doesn't even want to go any more, because of the runaround.
|
If your husband got to a border with you he would be admitted. Getting to a border is an entirely different matter though. Flying from Pakistan, via Dubai (or anywhere else) to France without a visa is likely to lead to denial of boarding.
Interestingly, spouses of EU nationals do not need a transit visa, so you could in theory be able to transit France if your husband had documentation for his final destination.
I understand it is frustrating, but if you can get the visa for France sorted, either by the appeal route or a fresh application, it will be much better for you. |
Its interesting to know that Spouses of EU Nationals do not need a transit visa... Does the Schengan visa state the first state that is to be entered? If he had a visa for the final destination, i.e another member state, then he could still use that, to enter France as per my understanding though I could be wrong.
We are still awaiting response the to third recent application and the appeal... we are just stuck waiting. I have to leave Pakistan this coming week, so my husband cannot travel with me now anyway, with or without a visa. The French Embassy has his passport and if we take it back, they will withdraw the application, which we do not want to do. If they do eventually give him the visa, it would solve this horrible issue! |
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SRAQAI
Member of Standing
Joined: 07 Jul 2011
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| frei wrote: | | SRAQAI wrote: | Thank you so much for your advise. This is what I am worried about. I dont want to see my husband being detained at the French border, I wouldn't even know who to call or what to do... I think id need to research on French based EU Immigration rights institutions in France before we leave. Yes, I have made so many various complaints to various institutions and you are absolutely right. I complained to the EU Ombudsman and of course my complaint "didn't fall into the scope of their work". The UK SOLVIT know this very well and are playing the situation to their advantage. I don't know what they get out of it. Its highly frustrating to say the least.
I have emailed, last week, a contact at the UK based BIS, who deals with Posted workers and self employed people within the EU. All I did was ask for the A1 form in order to post myself to France as a self employed person, but to keep myself under the UK welfare and tax system. I still haven't got a reply from them yet. From the down rotten basic to the higher end of the EU institutions, they are all utterly useless. Even getting my rights as a British Citizen in order to work in France seems like a chore. |
Ah! forget the buffoons that run the EU offices, everyone is there for their pockets, they don't have us in mind. In the unlikely event that your husband was detained in France he surely will be giving a legal representation, they wouldn't start a proceeding against him and expect him to provide for himself a representation except he had opted to do so.
Do not be stuck with the french, try other embassies as aforementioned German preferably. my friend had to apply to about 4 different EU embassies as a spouse of EU citizen before he got lucky on the 4th one. mine though was straight forward with the Germans have found them very formal in their handling of visa applications. if however, you encounter any issue with the Germans kindly post back, and I will be happy to be of help.
Good luck. |
Thanks so much I appreciate your advise |
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SRAQAI
Member of Standing
Joined: 07 Jul 2011
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: | | Your husband will need to have a visa to get on a plane. The question is simply where will you be flying to, and therefore which visa you will want to apply for. |
What I was thinking was, to fly with Emirates, because they have a stopover transit in Dubai. Getting a visa for my husband to Dubai is a piece of cake, husband has been there before. So leaving Pakistan is not the issue, which is something that I was most concerned about, as the Pakistani immigration officers standing at airports and guarding their citizens are notorious for corruption and denying those even with a visa, exit from Pakistan. This can be overcome by bribes of money or jewelry or French perfumes.
Before the flight, I was going to contact Emirates in Dubai at their head office and educate them about the Directive, so that when we transit in Dubai, the airline staff would be expecting us and know that my husband will not have a visa in his passport. This would give them time to make their inquiries and check ups on the EU law etc, if I contact them a few weeks before the flight.
I am now going to be leaving Pakistan very soon and returning to London, so we cannot do this journey now, however when the time comes, I will visit the Emirates head office in London and educate them. They have a very large corporate office in London where customers can go in and speak to an advisor. Ill then take a flight out to Dubai myself, meet my husband there, who would have entered Dubai on a visit visa (which is obtainable online from the Emirates website) and then fly back out to France together. The Emirates head office, hopfully will have staff in Dubai airport expecting us, knowing the situation and that my husband will not have a visa. This is all only if his current application at the French Embassy is again rejected. We will see! |
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sierra
- thin ice -
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 117
Location: eu
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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any update  |
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