Immigrationboards.com

[poundcake]

I have a question about whether or not I am eligible for citizenship under these guidelines. I've done some research, including The Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act of 1956 (amended in 1986, 2001, 2004, etc.) but I'm having trouble wading through all the changes. If anyone here is knowledgeable enough on the subject to help, I would greatly appreciate it.

See this page for more: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent?set_language=en

My grandfather was born in Northern Ireland in 1924. At 17 he moved to England where he was married and my mother was born. I was born to an American Father and English mother.

Had my grandfather been born in the Republic of Ireland, there would be no question, but since he was born in Northern Ireland (although it is still the island of Ireland) after 1922, I'm not sure. The language of the law seems to have changed, getting rid of the language referring to 1922, but has been replaced by other language that I don't fully understand enough to determine my eligibility, i.e., did my grandfather have to somehow claim his Irish Citizenship or was being born there enough?

[fatty patty]

[poundcake]

Thanks for those links, they do provide the information in a different way than the Irish Embassy in the US (http://www.embassyofireland.org/home/index.aspx?id=30818). It just seems that every official site where I am able to find information about it, it is explained slightly differently so it all gets a bit convoluted.

Thanks for looking that up for me on the London site though, I hadn't considered that the different Irish Embassy websites would have different info.

[doesnotcompute]

poundcake, you are eligible for Irish Citizenship through Foreign Births Registration. It doesn't matter if your grandfather was born in Northern Ireland. The fact that he was born on the island of Ireland entitles you to Foreign Births Registration.

I think it stems from the fact that the 1956 Act repealled all existing citizenship legislation, and stated that anyone born on the island of Ireland was an Irish citizen, in line with Article 2 of the Constitution.

However, I am no legal expert, and I can't remember where I read that a grandparent's birth in Northern Ireland is sufficient.

[poundcake]

Thanks for that info, I believe you are correct so I've been gathering up all the necessary documents to submit for my Foreign Birth Registration, and I've come across a few snags (who doesn't).

Snag 1: My grandfather is Bryan on his wedding and death certificate, but is Bernard on his birth certificate. His wedding and death certificates both clearly state N. Ireland as his place of birth, although one says 1924 and the other says 1925. But, there are NO regristrations for a Bryan ***** in all of N. Ireland in 1923-1926. He was eventually found as "Bernard" in 1924 due to my grandmother remembering that she wondered if they were legally married since the wedding certificate said Bryan when he was actually Bernard. The father, my great-grandfather Bernard, matches on his wedding and birth certificate (incidentally, I think it is because he was named after his father that he was known as Bryan, although this is not officially his first or middle name).

Snag 2: I was born in Germany to an American Serviceman serving on Active Duty and a British mother (although under Irish law, even though she was born in England, she is born to an Irish father and therefore she is Irish -- see snag 1 above). As of the moment I was born I was a US Citizen, but as I was not born within a US State, my birth certificate was issued by the US Government and not a State Government. The US Gov't does not list the place of birth of the parents of children, only the names and dates. In the instructions to apply for FBR, it states that official certificates should be sent and such certificates should include the name and place of birth of the parents. But mine never will because the US Gov't doesn't provide that info on birth certificates. I have a few "unofficial" documents that show it so I'm wondering if I should enclose those as well....

Snag 3: I currently live in Florida, but I suspect my address might be unstable for the next 8-18 months and might change between the states of Florida and Georgia. The FBR registration process, from what I have heard, can take between 6-18 months or more, depending on the individual circumstance and any additional documentation that might be required. Both Florida and Georgia are required to apply for FBR through the New York Embassy. My brother has a stable address in Georgia that will not change in this time period. Should I put down that address as mine as that is the only stable address that I can count on, even though I don't actually live there now (although I did at one time) or should I trust that each (of the many, I'm sure) time I submit and address change to the Irish Embassy in NY that it will be processed correctly and on time, especially considering that I am sending them original documents that I really do not want to be lost in the US Postal Service?

[Ben]

poundcake, you do know that you also have entitlement to be a British citizen, and have had all your life, don't you?
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[poundcake]

As it was my mother, not my father, that is British, I would actually have to go through a similar process to this in order to become British. I am able to "apply" for British citizenship using form UKM, but I also run into snags in that process.

[Ben]

[poundcake]

[poundcake]

[Brigid from Ireland]

'My grandfather was born in Northern Ireland in 1924. At 17 he moved to England where he was married and my mother was born. I was born to an American Father and English mother.'


If your mother or grandfather is still alive, the easiest route is for them to apply for an Irish (and/or British) passport. If they get the passport this solves your problem. This is a low cost solution.

If both are dead, and have left a living spouse, their spouse could also apply for a passport.
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BL

[Ben]

[Brigid from Ireland]

[poundcake]

[Brigid from Ireland]

Yes. It is MUCH easier for your mother to get an Irish passport, than it is for you to get an Irish passport.

In general, all your mother will need to do is fill in the application form, enclose an original of her birth cert, her father's birth cert and her parents marriage cert. That is it - she is automatically an Irish citizen, regardless of where she was born, because her father was an Irish citizen born in Ireland.

She should not draw attention to the difference in first names (her father's) because if she does not mention it there is a strong possibility that the staff in the passport office, familiar with the Irish system of naming a child Mary Ann after the grandmother, and calling her Angela after a saint (no relationship at all between the formal name and what the child is generally known by) will ignore the difference in names. If they do notice, let them write out to ask her, and she can then explain it. It should be no problem, especially if there is any relative in Ireland who can write a letter to confirm it (X was my mother's brother, he was christened Y but always called X, his wife is Z and their daughter is K, married to M an American soldier).

Once your mom has an Irish passport, you are sorted out. You just need to follow the various steps for the child of an Irish citizen. You use her Irish passport to join the foreign birth's register.

Passport office staff (staff in general) do not like complicated cases. Your mother's case is easy - straightforward. Your case, if your mother does not have an Irish passport, is a pain, requires a manager to look at it, and will be scrutinised carefully (particularly as you are probably a guy planning to come to Ireland to look for a job at a time when jobs are scarce). Your mom is probably near to retirement age, and wil be deemed to be looking for a passport for sentimental reasons, an American who might come here on holiday and spend money. My guess is that she will get the Irish passport with no diffficulty. Try it and let me know if it works.


Re: your mom

'Under the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Acts, 1956 to 2004, a person who was born outside Ireland is automatically an Irish citizen by descent if one of that person's parents was an Irish citizen who was born in Ireland.'

Re: You

'A person born abroad to a parent who, although not born in Ireland, was otherwise an Irish citizen at the time of the person’s birth, can become an Irish citizen by applying for Foreign Births Registration. The online application is known as 'Náisiún'. '
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BL

[BrightonJohn]

You should be able to apply for citizenship via FBR, regardless of whether your mother has an Irish Passport or not.

My dad's mother was born in Ireland and my dad & I were born in the UK. I gained citizenship via FBR, despite my dad never possessing an Irish (or British!) passport

Your mother is automatically an Irish citizen- she just needs her & her father's birth certificate etc

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

[poundcake]

[poundcake]

[Directive/2004/38/EC]