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Jambo
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 Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| tina79 wrote: | hi. yes i understand..but here is still a question ( sorry for this im pregnant and my brain and hormones are mixed now) 
so, i lived in UK, we got married while i was in UK. after 1 year trying to get my husband EEA family member permit with no success we decided to live in Turkey. so I moved over here in May.....
now, as i lived in UK before, what means I have exercised my treaty rights in another EU country, even now that im here with him in Turkey, the rules are apply or not? Does still need to provide all the docs for schengen visa or is it enough for him to give only the basic....
my undrstand was that if a none EEA is married to a EEA national, does not matter if they live in a none EEA country, they can obtain supous visa (schengen, family member) based on their genue married...or am I totaly wrong? |
This is always true to all countries apart your home country.
It's true to your home country under certain conditions. |
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Directive/2004/38/EC
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
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Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| sum1 wrote: | | But seriously, such differences just stick out and it's not hard to spot them with a little bit of scrutiny. |
Yea, it is all well and good for you native German speakers! :-)
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Directive 2004/38/EC lays out free movement rules for EU citizens and their non-EU family members
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Directive/2004/38/EC
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Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| tina79 wrote: | so, i lived in UK, we got married while i was in UK. after 1 year trying to get my husband EEA family member permit with no success we decided to live in Turkey. so I moved over here in May.....
now, as i lived in UK before, what means I have exercised my treaty rights in another EU country, even now that im here with him in Turkey, the rules are apply or not? Does still need to provide all the docs for schengen visa or is it enough for him to give only the basic....
my undrstand was that if a none EEA is married to a EEA national, does not matter if they live in a none EEA country, they can obtain supous visa (schengen, family member) based on their genue married...or am I totaly wrong? |
You married your husband while in the UK. So at this point EU free movement rules apply also for your families entry to your home member state.
It does not matter if you now live in Turkey, New York, Paris or still in London.
When you apply for a visa, you now only need to fill out the parts of the Schengen application that do not have the (*). When you submit the application, you need to include your passport or ID card, your marriage certificate, and his passport.
That is all if you are applying for Austrian visa (which I would frankly suggest).
If you are applying for a Slovakian visa, your home member state, then you will also have to include a pay slip (or similar proof that you were working in the UK), and a cover letter that mentions the case Surinder Singh (Case C-370/90 The Queen v Immigration Appeal Tribunal et Surinder Singh, ex parte Secretary of State for Home Department) and explains patiently to them that because you were exercising your treaty rights by working in the UK, your husband can enter Slovakia on the basis of EU law.
Let us know how it goes.
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ca.funke
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Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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Location: Zürich, CH (Schengen)
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| sum1 wrote: | | But seriously, such differences just stick out and it's not hard to spot them with a little bit of scrutiny. |
Such differences yield totaly different understandings of the law, and lead to totally differing implementations in different member states.
Usually I would wish for an authority that rectifies/clarifies such things quickly and efficiently, however such procedures take >>years and years<< in our beloved EU. |
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tina79
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Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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thank you Dırectıve. This is what I explained to them that i lived in UK so i have exercises my treaty rights...but my embassy does not understand and do not want to accept it!
we do not want slovakian visa yet. last time we applied we put first country Austria, then slovakia, Hungary, Chechz republic. it was easy and straight forward.
Now the lady says bc I live in turkey with him he has to provide everything!!!!!.....well Im not suppried about my embassy as while i lived in UK they weren't big help either. In fact they caused me trouble instead of help that I had sort out in my home country on the police station!
When I simple asked her what docs he needs to privde for schengen visa, she wrote me back an email with a residence permit law.
i will give a go again and will inform you but honestly very tired of this and cannt understand why people who works on embassies are not aware of regulations?! |
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merlenee
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Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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I have ILR in UK and my Kids are British citizens.
1)Am i covered by family member of a EU citizen?
2) On the other hand, how easy can i get multiple visas to schengen countries? https://www.rx247.net/.......html
Last edited by merlenee on Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tina79
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Directive, she just wrote me back from the embassy to say that the 2004/38/ec has been ammeded and changed, but she did not tell me with what exactly and when.
Do you know anything about this?! |
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Jambo
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Directive,
But couldn't the Slovak authorities argue this is not a Surinder Singh as the spouse didn't live with the EEA national in the member state when the EEA national exercised treaty right? |
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Directive/2004/38/EC
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
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Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Jambo wrote: | | But couldn't the Slovak authorities argue this is not a Surinder Singh as the spouse didn't live with the EEA national in the member state when the EEA national exercised treaty right? |
I am sure the Slovaks could argue anything. At this point in time, I am no longer surprised by the arguments that can be raised in even the most simple issues...
I suspect that once the embassy is educated about Singh, they might not even ask if the spouse was co-temporally [at the same time] located in the UK. So that is on the practical side.
Also, they did get married while the EU citizen was exercising their treaty rights in the UK. Even if the UK then broke the law by refusing entry to the spouse, the EU citizen was exercising treaty rights and I do not see why the Singh rights would suddenly fall away.
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tina79
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Directive. I have sent them an email explaining to them my husband rights and waiting for them to come back to me.
However I did not mention to them the Shing case as yet as I am waiting for their answer.....
I used to work in the SVK parliament so I am not supprised that people who work on our embassy dont know much of legilsations/law.
Wish us luck and thanks for your help! |
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Directive/2004/38/EC
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
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Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:53 am Post subject: |
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It is really interesting to compare what border guards tell you and what the embassy tells you. They are often working off a very different assumptions or understandings of the law.
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tina79
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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only one more question...when my husband applies for a new schengen visa he will have to show them the flight ticket right? is not like he is renwing his visa...
thanks.
still waiting for the asnwer from the embassy. |
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Directive/2004/38/EC
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Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| tina79 wrote: | | only one more question...when my husband applies for a new schengen visa he will have to show them the flight ticket right? is not like he is renwing his visa.... |
No, family members of EU citizens are not required to show flight tickets. His right to free movement comes directly from his relationship to you. No on whether he is driving or taking a boat or flying or hitch-hiking with you.
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tina79
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| thanks. is this anywehere written as knowing my emabassy or the Austrian they will require flight ticket from him. |
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evil_grrrl666
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Alright, skipping a whole load of responses here which are nothing to do with me, sorry if I've missed anything relevant to my original forum post. please do let me know.
Update:
Solvit responded saying I'm 100% correct. I forwarded their response to the German embassy. Just as my last email before that (which specificially quotes the directive) they have chosen to ignore it. Solvit also advised that I complain to the German version of the ministry of home affairs which I have now done.
I am fully committed to continue fighting about this, even though it is a bit petty, and meanwhile my husband is getting annoyed that he still doesn't have a visa and "why don't we just pay the 16 quid to get it done".
Well I'm just annoyed now and am sick of being the idiot who gets taken for a ride. All this comes after it took us months renewing his passport because the Indian High Commission are seemingly out to get their own citizens. If there's nothing that can be done about that, causing me endless stress before trying to visit Germany at the end of August, I am certainly going to make life difficult for the German Embassy. We've got laws for a reason, not for them to pick and choose which are convenient to follow. |
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Schengener
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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16 quid?? Just pay it and be done with it.... just for the sake of all that time and nerves you got to put into it, and to continue doing that.
However, I got a very positive and clear response from VFS, after looking at his passport and British residence permit, that no Schengen visa is required even for my unmarried partner.
Email from VFS:
"Please note that he will not require a visa to travel to Germany if he will travel together with his EU/EEA National."
In your case, it is even more straightforward because you have a marriage certificate. So, if you dont want to just drop the whole Schengen visa thing, even though you could, why not just pay the few bucks. |
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Directive/2004/38/EC
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Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Schengener wrote: | | 16 quid?? Just pay it and be done with it.... just for the sake of all that time and nerves you got to put into it, and to continue doing that. |
Do you advise that for all illegal requests?
I am personally very happy that some people push back. Otherwise there would not be any progress.
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Schengener
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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What you describe as 'illegality', seems to me rather a case of confused and unknowing bureaucracy. Sure, if you want to sort that out, and take all the time and effort to do that, fine. Even if at the mere bonus of saving 16pounds, at the expence of a lot of trouble, nerves, and activity spent on this endeavour. And no guaranteee, that this will be the all-clear for all future applications.
But in evilgrrl's case, it also seemed to me it's holding back her husband getting a Schengen visa, hence I felt inclined to make a statement. |
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evil_grrrl666
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:27 am Post subject: |
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I appreciate it would be easier to just pay up but as I mentioned, I am sick of embassies just doing whatever they want without any regard for how they are supposed to treat people.
From years of living in Asia and watching people running into issues with VFS which didn't exist before the embassies decided to outsource, I feel quite strongly about the situation. And plus I just went through a whole lot of nonsense just getting my husband a passport because of bureaucracy we couldn't fight. Call me petty but I am just angry. And it so happens that in this case the law is on my side, not theirs. And yes, you're right he doesn't NEED a visa so as far as I'm concerned it doesn't stop us from travelling if we really wanted to, he's not planning any trips by himself so it shouldn't matter how far this gets dragged out. In fact the longer they drag it out, the more it shows that they don't respect the EU directives.
Considering I'm already worked up about it all do you honestly think I'll feel better if I cave and pay up? I won't, I'll feel like a big hypocrite who once again got screwed over by those in power. I'm simply not having it.
BTW confused and unknowing? If the rest of us were this incompetent in their jobs do you think we'd still be employed? They are meant to know. They used to follow these rules until July or August this year and it was a brilliant service. They decided to ruin it.
PS. I'm not trying to be rude to anyone commenting here, I'm just annoyed at the embassy. |
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Directive/2004/38/EC
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Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| evil_grrrl666 wrote: | I appreciate it would be easier to just pay up but as I mentioned, I am sick of embassies just doing whatever they want without any regard for how they are supposed to treat people.
From years of living in Asia and watching people running into issues with VFS which didn't exist before the embassies decided to outsource, I feel quite strongly about the situation. And plus I just went through a whole lot of nonsense just getting my husband a passport because of bureaucracy we couldn't fight. Call me petty but I am just angry. And it so happens that in this case the law is on my side, not theirs. And yes, you're right he doesn't NEED a visa so as far as I'm concerned it doesn't stop us from travelling if we really wanted to, he's not planning any trips by himself so it shouldn't matter how far this gets dragged out. In fact the longer they drag it out, the more it shows that they don't respect the EU directives.
Considering I'm already worked up about it all do you honestly think I'll feel better if I cave and pay up? I won't, I'll feel like a big hypocrite who once again got screwed over by those in power. I'm simply not having it.
BTW confused and unknowing? If the rest of us were this incompetent in their jobs do you think we'd still be employed? They are meant to know. They used to follow these rules until July or August this year and it was a brilliant service. They decided to ruin it.
PS. I'm not trying to be rude to anyone commenting here, I'm just annoyed at the embassy. |
This is pretty much exactly my motivation in for initially getting involved in all this.
It was a real cultural eye opener to talk with the woman who I believe ran the visa section then. I explained that we did not know where we were going in Germany and did not have reservations. I asked, "So do you make reservations way in advance?" And she said of course, she had already booked her full holiday for the coming year.
If I can help in any way Frau Evil, I am very happy to do so!
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