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boloney
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 Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: | | sierra wrote: | | as british citizen they can enter and exit any eu country . |
I agree. I do not think there is any way Poland can legally prevent somebody from entering or exiting Poland using a passport of another EU member state. |
you have to remember they also Polish citizens. What shall I do if they will try enter/exit poland on UK passports? |
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Directive/2004/38/EC
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Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| boloney wrote: | | Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: | | sierra wrote: | | as british citizen they can enter and exit any eu country . |
I agree. I do not think there is any way Poland can legally prevent somebody from entering or exiting Poland using a passport of another EU member state. |
you have to remember they also Polish citizens. What shall I do if they will try enter/exit poland on UK passports? |
I don't think I understand your question. Can you rephrase it a different way?
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Directive 2004/38/EC lays out free movement rules for EU citizens and their non-EU family members
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boloney
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: | | boloney wrote: | | Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: | | sierra wrote: | | as british citizen they can enter and exit any eu country . |
I agree. I do not think there is any way Poland can legally prevent somebody from entering or exiting Poland using a passport of another EU member state. |
you have to remember they also Polish citizens. What shall I do if they will try enter/exit poland on UK passports? |
I don't think I understand your question. Can you rephrase it a different way? |
my kids are albo polish citizens. So according to polish law they are required to hold polish passports/id card if they like enter/leave poland. What should I do if polish border control officer will try stop us at the border while kids travel on UK passports. It did't happen yet but one day they may try to do it. They used to do it to polish/us citizens. |
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Directive/2004/38/EC
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| boloney wrote: | | my kids are albo polish citizens. So according to polish law they are required to hold polish passports/id card if they like enter/leave poland. What should I do if polish border control officer will try stop us at the border while kids travel on UK passports. It did't happen yet but one day they may try to do it. They used to do it to polish/us citizens. |
For US+Polish citizens, there is nothing that EU law has to say about them trying to enter using their US passport.
For if the person tries to enter on the basis of their European (e.g. UK) passport, then they must be allowed to enter (and leave).
| Quote: | Directive 2004/38/EC: Article 4 - Right of exit
1. Without prejudice to the provisions on travel documents applicable to national border controls, all Union citizens with a valid identity card or passport and their family members who are not nationals of a Member State and who hold a valid passport shall have the right to leave the territory of a Member State to travel to another Member State.
2. No exit visa or equivalent formality may be imposed on the persons to whom paragraph 1 applies.
3. Member States shall, acting in accordance with their laws, issue to their own nationals, and renew, an identity card or passport stating their nationality.
4. The passport shall be valid at least for all Member States and for countries through which the holder must pass when travelling between Member States. Where the law of a Member State does not provide for identity cards to be issued, the period of validity of any passport on being issued or renewed shall be not less than five years. |
| Quote: | Directive 2004/38/EC: Article 5 -- Right of entry
1. Without prejudice to the provisions on travel documents applicable to national border controls, Member States shall grant Union citizens leave to enter their territory with a valid identity card or passport and shall grant family members who are not nationals of a Member State leave to enter their territory with a valid passport.
No entry visa or equivalent formality may be imposed on Union citizens.
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There may be border guards who do not know the law, but this seems pretty clear to me. Note there is nothing which says that a member state can force it's citizens to enter only using that country's passport.
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Directive 2004/38/EC lays out free movement rules for EU citizens and their non-EU family members
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sierra
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:17 am Post subject: |
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as i said before holding british passport as eu citizens they can enter and exit poland or any eu country its not going to be a problem .
but if they have a non eu passport than its different as uk is in eu they can enter and exit any european country including poland if you see british passport on cover it says eu, which means they can enter and exit .
as there is no entry or exit req for uk passport holders so why you think in your case they make exception?
uk is in eu  |
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boloney
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| sierra wrote: | as i said before holding british passport as eu citizens they can enter and exit poland or any eu country its not going to be a problem .
but if they have a non eu passport than its different as uk is in eu they can enter and exit any european country including poland if you see british passport on cover it says eu, which means they can enter and exit .
as there is no entry or exit req for uk passport holders so why you think in your case they make exception?
uk is in eu |
as I said before Polish law does`t allow to use other nationality while entering/leaving and in Poland. |
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sierra
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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boloney i think we are going in round and roud just in cirle there is no start point and no end.
does polish law allow you to have dual nationality ?
if yes than you can use that nationality and i belive poland does allow you to have dual nationality other wise you would not have uk passports.
and you said abou polish and us passport they use to stop ok .
usa is not in europe dofferent rules can apply for us.
but how poland is going to restrict right of entrance and exit for eu passports or for uk .
though you expain your kids are polish too .but i still doubt that poland can just deny entry or exit for uk nationality holders . |
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boloney
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| sierra wrote: | boloney i think we are going in round and roud just in cirle there is no start point and no end.
does polish law allow you to have dual nationality ?
if yes than you can use that nationality and i belive poland does allow you to have dual nationality other wise you would not have uk passports.
and you said abou polish and us passport they use to stop ok .
usa is not in europe dofferent rules can apply for us.
but how poland is going to restrict right of entrance and exit for eu passports or for uk .
though you expain your kids are polish too .but i still doubt that poland can just deny entry or exit for uk nationality holders . |
poland does`t stop people to hold dual nationality.
but own citizens in poland tread only as polish citizens.
for example if british/polish citizens get arrested in poland they not gonna let him get help from uk embassy in poland.
so if they ever try to stop my kids we should ask why they trying to stop eu citizens to cross the border? |
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Directive/2004/38/EC
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 6426
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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As I pointed out, EU law says that if somebody has a passport of an EU member state, then they must be admitted.
You point out the conflict with Polish law.
In general the EU law must be implemented in this area.
But that does not mean that you might possibly have a problem at the border.
But if you ever do have a problem, having a very clear printout from Directive 2004/38/EC would help, and knowing your rights under EU law.
http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-countries/info-poland/ contains a link to some laws. The english translation does not seem to suggest they have made an exception to disallow entry if the person is also a Polish citizen:
| Quote: | ACT of 14 July 2006
on the entry into, residence in and exit from the Republic of Poland of nationals of the European Union Member States and their family members
(Journal of Laws No. 144, item 1043)
Article 2
Whenever in this Act the reference is made to:
(1) border – it shall signify the state border of the Republic of Poland within the meaning of the Act of 12 October 1990 on the protection of the state border (Dz.U. of 2005 No 226 item 1944);
(2) travel document – it shall signify a travel document within the meaning of the Act of 13 June 2003 on foreign nationals (Dz. U. of 2003, No 128, item 1175 as amended )
(3) Union citizen – it shall mean a foreign national:
(a) national of the European Union Member States,
(b) national of the non-EU European Economic Area states,
(c) national of States, which are not parties to the agreement on European Economic Area, who may exercise their right to move and reside freely within the territory on the grounds of the agreements concluded by these States with the European Community and its Member States;
Article 9
1. Union citizen may enter the territory of the Republic of Poland on the grounds of a valid travel document or other valid documents confirming their identity and citizenship. |
_________________
Directive 2004/38/EC lays out free movement rules for EU citizens and their non-EU family members
See blog |
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boloney
Sage
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Posts: 510
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: | As I pointed out, EU law says that if somebody has a passport of an EU member state, then they must be admitted.
You point out the conflict with Polish law.
In general the EU law must be implemented in this area.
But that does not mean that you might possibly have a problem at the border.
But if you ever do have a problem, having a very clear printout from Directive 2004/38/EC would help, and knowing your rights under EU law.
http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-countries/info-poland/ contains a link to some laws. The english translation does not seem to suggest they have made an exception to disallow entry if the person is also a Polish citizen:
| Quote: | ACT of 14 July 2006
on the entry into, residence in and exit from the Republic of Poland of nationals of the European Union Member States and their family members
(Journal of Laws No. 144, item 1043)
Article 2
Whenever in this Act the reference is made to:
(1) border – it shall signify the state border of the Republic of Poland within the meaning of the Act of 12 October 1990 on the protection of the state border (Dz.U. of 2005 No 226 item 1944);
(2) travel document – it shall signify a travel document within the meaning of the Act of 13 June 2003 on foreign nationals (Dz. U. of 2003, No 128, item 1175 as amended )
(3) Union citizen – it shall mean a foreign national:
(a) national of the European Union Member States,
(b) national of the non-EU European Economic Area states,
(c) national of States, which are not parties to the agreement on European Economic Area, who may exercise their right to move and reside freely within the territory on the grounds of the agreements concluded by these States with the European Community and its Member States;
Article 9
1. Union citizen may enter the territory of the Republic of Poland on the grounds of a valid travel document or other valid documents confirming their identity and citizenship. |
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thanks for info. |
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sierra
- thin ice -
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 117
Location: eu
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| dont worry you are going to be ok with british passport . when you travelling and update what happend . |
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Directive/2004/38/EC
Guru
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 6426
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| sierra wrote: | | dont worry you are going to be ok with british passport . when you travelling and update what happend . |
I agree they should be. But Immigration Officials are not very well trained with European law, so it is best to be prepared with a lot of knowledge so that you can push back appropriately if challenged.
_________________
Directive 2004/38/EC lays out free movement rules for EU citizens and their non-EU family members
See blog |
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