ILR Refused

samisha · Post by **samisha** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:43 pm

would you be kind enough to tell us on what visa were u on...was it HSMP tier 1 (gen) or work permit.

Thanks

ilrapplicant2013 · Post by **ilrapplicant2013** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:04 pm

Muscovite wrote:Sorry, I have got nothing to contribute to the essence of the issue however I am intrigued by how to treat situations like this.

What I mean is: as someone said here you can NOT appeal the decision (for whatever reason but that's their law). So how exactly can anyone be protected from slippages and potentials errors of UKBA? Let's assume for a second that imagine a caseworker is in the bad mood today and he/she rejects your application on the basis of some out of the blue statements like this: "Your employment history doesn't have period from 2007 to 2010" although the doc itself contains these records. But what can you do? He/she says "No. it's rejected". And you can NOT appeal the decision. How absurd is that? Can anyone provide any reasonable explanations on why such a rigid system is in place 'cause maybe I have missed logic somewhere?

No, my understanding is that you can appeal.
Kevin24 has mentioned that , in case of any immigration law breaches he can not appeal,
Not you can not appeal at all.

annoyed · Post by **annoyed** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:13 am

samisha wrote:would you be kind enough to tell us on what visa were u on...was it HSMP tier 1 (gen) or work permit.

Thanks

Work permit.

annoyed · Post by **annoyed** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:03 am

I have been kind enough to provide my visa category @ Samisha

applyforILR · Post by **applyforILR** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:43 pm

sorry to know about the unrequired refusal..
and thanks for posting this issue here... you might have saved a lot of others from this pain..

Hope things sort out favorably for you.. keep us posted..

also, can you or someone tell me how to contact HMRC to get such letter to confirm about the employer? Please provide the email id or any link I could check on..[/quote]

ilrapplicant2013 · Post by **ilrapplicant2013** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:21 am

applyforILR wrote:sorry to know about the unrequired refusal..
and thanks for posting this issue here... you might have saved a lot of others from this pain..

Hope things sort out favorably for you.. keep us posted..

also, can you or someone tell me how to contact HMRC to get such letter to confirm about the employer? Please provide the email id or any link I could check on..

[/quote]

Call 0845 300 0627 (options 2,3 and 6)
They will send you an employment letter within a week.

ilrapplicant2013 · Post by **ilrapplicant2013** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:49 pm

Any updates on your case annoyed ?
if yours is a genuine case that got refused due to some mis understanding, it will be useful for others to be prepared.

arun_prasad · Post by **arun_prasad** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:15 pm

Hi

Sorry to hear about your situation. I think the problem lies with the employer here.

Firstly can you see an NI number printed on your P-60 given by your employer. Specifically for the period of 2007 and does your salary slip has a NI number on it.

A know a few indian companies which paid a consolidated net pay and didnt pay any taxes to the government. I have a personal experience of recieving a P-60 form printed by my ex-company and that had no mention of the NI number. I fought with them and its of no use.

Anyways I got my NI number after I left the old company and since then HMRC has a track of all the taxes I paid.

Cheers

annoyed · Post by **annoyed** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:28 pm

@ilrapplicant2013: Yes. My case is 100% genuine. I will provide full guidance and updates as I progress.

@arun_prasad: I have all the P60s for that period with my NI number printed correctly. However, there are differences between March payslip "Net taxable pay" and that of P60 in most of the cases which UKBA have pointed out correctly after obtaining it from HMRC. But I have entries in my bank account for the period which is missing from HMRC records. But I found that:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclai ... nce-errors

Also, I had been refused for 322 (1A), which is deception by false representation/s or in non legal terms FAKE EVIDENCE/DOCUMENTS. I have not submitted any false documentation and there is a provision in case law by virtue of "AA (Nigeria) V Secretary of State for the Home Department [2010] EWCA Civ 773" which is the main authority in deception cases to prove the appellant innocent and it is deception "NOT BY DISHONESTY" when the misrepresentations can be explained. My employers are going to provide evidence and probably appear in the tribunal as witness to cover this part.

See:

http://www.gherson.com/news-articles/ma ... d(1)-2912/

and

http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/2012CSOH93.html

I will keep everyone posted here. Also, I have not requested anonymity in the hearing, so hopefully my judgement will be available at http://www.bailii.org/ when my appeal is heard and people who are genuinely stuck in such administrative nonsense can contact me for help directly.

Post by **ban.s** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:10 pm

I am sure you'll post updates here as you progress , just curious, if have you heard from HMRC yet? What did they say?

annoyed · Post by **annoyed** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:14 am

@ban.s: HMRC do not have NIC records for the period 2007-2010 as UKBA pointed out correctly.

Post by **ban.s** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:36 am

How about PAYE? Do they have records for that? or both PAYE and NIC contribution missing?

annoyed · Post by **annoyed** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:48 am

No records whatsoever at HMRC for the period 2007-2010 as far as I am aware.

Kevin24 · Post by **Kevin24** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:15 am

annoyed wrote:No records whatsoever at HMRC for the period 2007-2010 as far as I am aware.

Please Get written confirmation from HMRC that there are no records for you for the period 2007-2010. As to why Your Employer has to explain.

Post by **ban.s** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:38 am

I would check few additional things with Emploer and HMRC. However, as you have already lodged an appeal through your solicitor so I presume they will guide you through the process.

Good luck with your appeal.

Kevin24 · Post by **Kevin24** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:47 am

[quote="ban.s"]I would check few additional things with Emploer and HMRC. However, as you have already lodged an appeal through your solicitor so I presume they will guide you through the process.

Hope HMRC and your Employer come to an agreement, regarding settling the past dues 2007-2010. All the best with your Appeal.

ilrapplicant2013 · Post by **ilrapplicant2013** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:10 am

Thanks annoyed for willing to share your situation!

I also had a case of gap in HMRC records, they didnt have 2 years of my tax details , the one that got me worried was they didnt have the details of the year I applied tier-1 with.

But after a few investigations, they were able to get this details and now all my details are published in the employment history letter.
(This was due to my company's name being changed) so wasnt very straight forward to dig it out.

What I am keen to understand is, why did UKBA think to verify your records agains HMRC, if you provided all P60s.

Mano82 · Post by **Mano82** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:34 am

Annoyed,

Even I am into simiilar situation. I landed in Jan 2008 and till 2010 my employer was paying the tax for me. I applied for the NI number in 2010 as we were asked to pay the tax on our own from then. I rang up HMRC last week for the employment history from 2008 but they said they can see only from 2010 when my NI number was issued. They asked me to get the temporary id with which the employer would have paid the tax for me between 2008 -2010. I am tryin to get this now.

ilrapplicant, Can you elaborate on the investigations which resolved ur issue please?

Gurus,
Will this hold back my ILR eligibility? If I provide the salary slips/bank statements during thsi time. Will that do? I am in the process of getting the P45/P60 as well from the employer.

Pls advise.

ilrapplicant2013 · Post by **ilrapplicant2013** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:59 am

Mano82 wrote:Annoyed,

Even I am into simiilar situation. I landed in Jan 2008 and till 2010 my employer was paying the tax for me. I applied for the NI number in 2010 as we were asked to pay the tax on our own from then. I rang up HMRC last week for the employment history from 2008 but they said they can see only from 2010 when my NI number was issued. They asked me to get the temporary id with which the employer would have paid the tax for me between 2008 -2010. I am tryin to get this now.

ilrapplicant, Can you elaborate on the investigations which resolved ur issue please?

Gurus,
Will this hold back my ILR eligibility? If I provide the salary slips/bank statements during thsi time. Will that do? I am in the process of getting the P45/P60 as well from the employer.

Pls advise.

I dont know the details on how they got this,
I had asked for employment letter, they sent me and that stated here is the details from 07 till 12
we dont have details for 07 and 10.

I then called up my ex employers and they assured me that this was paid.
But they didnt have the records as it had undergone 2 mergers and some financial operations / details were lost.

I called up HMRC again and they said they will issue a letter to my ex employers to provide those details again.
But she put me on hold for 10-15 mins and said she has spoken with her colleague and they were able to figure out this information .

They couldnt update the information agains my account and had to forward it to a back office team.

So they instructed them to update records agains my account and send me a revised Employment history.

I recieved all this and now i have the details.

Mano82 · Post by **Mano82** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:00 pm

That sounds great. I will also try calling them if I dont get the P60s from my employer for those periods.But I had asked this explicitly to teh guy from HMRC when i called and he was certain that without the NI number he cant trace back to the previous years. Thanks anyways.

ilrapplicant2013 · Post by **ilrapplicant2013** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:30 am

Mano82 wrote:That sounds great. I will also try calling them if I dont get the P60s from my employer for those periods.But I had asked this explicitly to teh guy from HMRC when i called and he was certain that without the NI number he cant trace back to the previous years. Thanks anyways.

NI no. is again added to your account they maintain. I didnt have a NI for first year,
But they have the tax details for my first year as well.

Do one thing, try and get the tax code from your employers and provide it to HMRC.
It might help them.

ilrapplicant2013 · Post by **ilrapplicant2013** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:31 am

Annoyed - Can I ask you one more question mate, are you employers a small company or a big company.
DO you now what class of sponsorship they hold ?

annoyed · Post by **annoyed** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:50 am

@ilrapplicant2013: my company is a fairly small outfit. I don't know what class of sponsorship is, in first place

. So, I don't know which one they hold.

ilrapplicant2013 · Post by **ilrapplicant2013** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:44 am

annoyed wrote:@ilrapplicant2013: my company is a fairly small outfit. I don't know what class of sponsorship is, in first place . So, I don't know which one they hold.

Wp sponsors have different categories, class a ,b etc. Class A sponsors have more privilages and it also means to UKBA tgat they have enough processes to manage immigration and are more trusted.

I think it also has to do with revenue and how many visas they can sponsor.
The company I worked for was very strict, they wouldnt bring people on business visas forshort term engagements which most companies , even big ones like infosys,tcs have done in the past.

annoyed · Post by **annoyed** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:56 pm

@ilrapplicant2013: Just found out that, my employers are:

Tier 2 (A rating) Intra Company Transfers (ICT)
Tier 2 (A rating) Tier 2 General

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ILR Refused