No Sehengen visa required for EEA Residence Card holders

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:02 pm

ribena wrote:Hi all
I would like to know if we can stay (longer than 3 months) in another EU Country (other than UK) with the residence card issued in the UK.

Quite possibly, but you've not provided enough information.

Why not start a new thread?

ribena · Post by **ribena** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:08 am

I was hesitant to open another thread coz this seems like more or else the same query.

I am non EEA National married to a Dutch living in UK at the mo.

Just in case if we need to go back to Holland as our permanent home( don't know if that will happen, but 'if' / just in case) can we move back with the Residence Card issued to me in UK?

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:18 am

ribena wrote:I was hesitant to open another thread coz this seems like more or else the same query.

I am non EEA National married to a Dutch living in UK at the mo.

Just in case if we need to go back to Holland as our permanent home( don't know if that will happen, but 'if' / just in case) can we move back with the Residence Card issued to me in UK?

If your Dutch spouse has been engaging in economic activity in the UK, then you are both entitled to enter and reside in Holland for longer than 3 months, if your spouse engages in economic activity in Holland.

ECJ ruling on Singh.

Majeztic · Post by **Majeztic** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:46 pm

I am currently in Germany,non-Eu married to a German/Romanian citizen,I entered with the Romanian family member card.I have a contract plus a work permit to work in Germany,But I did not apply for the national visa from the german embassy in Romania,instead I came with the family card,will this cause me problems when I go to the immigration.I posted a topic about this before.Benifa

any views? will be much appriciated

Majeztic · Post by **Majeztic** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:48 pm

this was the thread:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=39428

ribena · Post by **ribena** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:00 pm

thanks benifa

but my husband is currently here as self sufficient. will that be a problem in future? :s

Rozen · Post by **Rozen** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:48 am

ribena wrote: I am non EEA National married to a Dutch living in UK at the mo.

Just in case if we need to go back to Holland as our permanent home( don't know if that will happen, but 'if' / just in case) can we move back with the Residence Card issued to me in UK?

YES you can! We did! Geen probleem!

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:00 am

ribena wrote:thanks benifa

but my husband is currently here as self sufficient. will that be a problem in future? :s

Depends on whether or not Holland considers self-sufficiency to be an "economic activity". The UK doesn't.

Post by **Obie** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:40 pm

benifa wrote:
ribena wrote:I was hesitant to open another thread coz this seems like more or else the same query.

I am non EEA National married to a Dutch living in UK at the mo.

Just in case if we need to go back to Holland as our permanent home( don't know if that will happen, but 'if' / just in case) can we move back with the Residence Card issued to me in UK?
If your Dutch spouse has been engaging in economic activity in the UK, then you are both entitled to enter and reside in Holland for longer than 3 months, if your spouse engages in economic activity in Holland.

ECJ ruling on Singh.

He is covered under Singh and Eind ruling (which state that the family member can still obtain a residence Card even if the EEA national is not engaged in economic activity on their return to the Netherlands (home country).

However i am unsure if the Netherlands would be prepared to apply this ruling in their case, when they were never exercising an economic activity in the UK.

Mr Eind was indeed working in the UK for sometime before he became ill and sought incapacity benefit in the Netherlands. The ECJ ruled that her daughter should be issued a resident card even though he was unemployed and on benefit in the Netherlands.

desi_parrot · Post by **desi_parrot** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:25 pm

[quote="SoloOl"]OHHHHHHHHHHH!
I am a Russian national, and my husband is Italian and I hold a new UK Residence Permit , Type of doc: Residence card of a Family member of an EEA National. â€œIn compliance with the EU Directive nr. 2004/38/CE holders of the above mentioned UK Residence Documentation do not need any visa to travel around the countries belonging to the Schengen territory for a maximum period of 3 months in one semesterâ€

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:41 pm

The Stupid at Heathrow airport were correct. Who denied you boarding, the airline or the border police?

acme4242 · Post by **acme4242** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:07 pm

desi_parrot , indeed this is disgraceful.

The Swiss situation is indeed very unfair, but its the way it is at the moment.
another member made a similar post >here<
However I would think the Swiss should issue you with a Schengen at the Swiss border.

The lufthansa situation in Germany you where wronged in law, and you rights where violated.
But was this from the airline or Germany border guards ?
The rules that Border guards must follow are clearly documented.
But I don't know the situation with unlawful refusal by an airline.
I don't know, can they do anything they want ?

Do you have paperwork, by EU law, a border guard must supply you with written explanation for refusal.

EU Schengen Rules .
[quote]

6.4 When refusing the entry to third-country nationals, the checking officer must:
a) fill in a standard form for refusing entry substantiating the reason(s) for refusal, and give it to the third-country national concerned, who must sign the form and must be given a copy of the signed form. In case the third-country national refuses to sign, the border guard will indicate this refusal in the form under the section "commentsâ€

desi_parrot · Post by **desi_parrot** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:12 pm

well.. thanks very much for your concern
well i clear all the things for you..
when u get to heathrow. there is a counter for swiss airline.. and they got a supervisor their.. who deals with the visa thing...
he told me he cant do any thing cant issue a boarding pass .. because you are entering swiss border.. and u dont have a visa.. . he said only thing you can do you can book a ticket via germany or holland to spain . you dont need to get visa to get there as a EU family member.. so i wasted my ticket..
and bought another ticket from luftansa airline.. but before buying ticket i asked their supervisior. i am a EU family member going to spain . via germnay do i need a visa. being a EU family member.. he said. NO.
so i bought another ticket and then i boarded plane to spain via germnay .
at german borders.. border police stopped me . and told me you dont have a visa to enter germany . and you cant get on the plane to spain..
i explain him every thing.. he said i can get you a 1 day visa . just a entry visa but it will talke 8 hours.. i have to contact our counslate in pakistan...
i missed my flight.. and they said you have two options. wait till morning .. and get another ticket to spain .. or go back to london.. .i asked them . just write me a letter like i have been refused to entry in germnay being a EU family member.. (we had all the documents. with us) so i can contact the court. and claim my money .. but he was quite rude. he said no letter.. if you want to issue us a letter it will b very official .you will be banned to come to germany for 5 years..
i didnt know that what to do .. so i took my flight and came back to london.. because i thought if germans didnt let me go through from their border for half an hour. .probabbly i ll be having same satuation on spain border... so i thought it would b better to go back to london..
but let me tell you one. .thing i booked my holidays. 2 months ago . i could get easily a visa.. but . . if you check .. German , and Spanish embassy in london website.. they clearly mentioned . you dont need a visa to enter eu countries being EU family member. (if you staying less than three months) .. the main problem was.. they didnt give me nay documentory proof.. like i have been refused to enter germnay . or swissland.
and we spent all night sleeping on bench on the air port (no zone area) and cursing ourselves....
that was so bad.. i wish i can take some legal actions against them .. so people like me wont suffer in their hands same problems...
i wasted too much money for nothing.. and i know how did i earn them..
if i can get some useful information .. i can take some legal actions against them..
thanks

acme4242 · Post by **acme4242** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:07 pm

Here are some documents you may need as reference, if you
make a case.
Have you met with a solicitor yet. Hopefully you can find someone who
knows EU law and freedom of movement legislation.

2004/38/EC

Schengen Border Guard handbook

Citizens Guide to 2004/38/EC rights

desi_parrot · Post by **desi_parrot** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:21 pm

well i have not contacted any solicitor yet.. but i am just gathering all the information i need..
2 things i want to know about ..
i dont have any documentory proof.. but i have my all tickets and boarding pass.. with me .. which i havnt used when they german borders didnt let me go through Germany .is that enough???
2nd thing any solictorz . u know i can contact who can help me in this satuation . .thanks
for your reply
regards

desi_parrot · Post by **desi_parrot** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:37 pm

i had my all week travel insurance..
is that can help as well .
???

acme4242 · Post by **acme4242** » Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:31 am

I can only share with you what I have read about EU rights and law.
you need to read the documents, and find a solicitor who can
understand and fight for you.

You mention in the initial post that your EU spouse was to accompany you,
that is very important, as all rights come from your EU spouse, the freedom
of movement is given to your EU spouse and their family.
So I hope your EU was with you, and you can prove this, by tickets and
statements. otherwise you as non-EU citizen have little rights.

There are many contributors on this forum whom are more knowledgeable than myself.
I suggest you read http://eumovement.wordpress.com/

I can only share with you what I have read, and I wish you the best of
luck to obtain justice, and I ask you to please tell us what happens either
positive or negative.

You mentioned, the two things you need to know
1) you did not receive a written explanation from the Border guard
for the reason for refusal, this is a fault of the Border guard,
and you can use this to your advantage as well, but it does make
things tricky. but please read the Border Guard handbook instructions

2) solicitor, you need to read and understand your own right, then
find someone who is clever and has also has read the documents.
I'm sorry I don't even know the city you live in, your on your own
with this one, unless you tell us the city where you live. even then
I might not know who to contact.

desi_parrot · Post by **desi_parrot** » Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:39 pm

thanks for your reply
i got it i live in cheltenham gloucestershire
united kingdom
but if you i find any solicitor in birmingham or london that wont be big problem .. london is 2 hours drive and birmingham is 45 mins..
i really want to take action against them . . .seriously .
thanks for the information you provided.. i ll read every thing.. and let you know further happening things.
thanks

elannor · Post by **elannor** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:31 pm

Hello everyone!!
This is my case.
I am a NON-EEA citizen married to a British citizen. I hold a SPOUSE/PARTNER LEAVE TO REMAIN Residence Permit which allows me to work and live here for 2 years and after that i will have to apply for my permanent residence. I am working at the moment. Last june I travelled to Spain so I applied for the Schengen visa. Before to apply I contacted the embassy asking them if in my case (wife of a uk citizen with a residence permit) did I need to apply for the visa and the answer the following:

"Family members of an EU/EEA national that hold a valid UK residence permit are no longer required a visa to enter Spain.

This must be documented on the residence permit as: â€œResidence card: family member of an EEA"(this endorsement is compulsory for the visa to be exempted). In addition to this, you also must hold a valid passport and be traveling with the EU national or joining him/her in Spain.

Otherwise, a visa will still be required (Real Decreto 1161/2009, 10th July 2009)."

As I did not time to find out what was that I just applied for the visa.
Now, I am travelling to Italy for Christmas and reading the requirements the mention again

"According to EU Directive 2004/38/CE, family members of EU nationals who do not have the nationality of a Member State, but have the new residence permits issued by the British Home Office bearing the specific following indication:

"RESIDENCE DOCUMENTATION
Type of Document: Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National"

will not need a Schengen visa for a SHORT STAY (up to 90 days in 6 months) in Italy if accompanied by the EEA National OR if traveling to join them."

I am a little bit lost about this, I do not know how to apply for that residence documentation, I do not know if I need it. My Residence permit clearly says "SPOUSE/PARTNER LEAVE TO REMAIN" but it seems that it is another document that I need.
Could you help me please if any of you know what I should do?? because this thing of applying for a visa every time I want to travel is anoying. My husband keeps forgetting and always is telling me WHY WE DON'T GO THIS BANK HOLIDAY TO THIS PLACE? and I answer REMEMBER THAT I NEED A VISA...
Many thanks,
I hope to hear soon from you

Elannor

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:05 pm

elannor wrote:I am a NON-EEA citizen married to a British citizen. I hold a SPOUSE/PARTNER LEAVE TO REMAIN Residence Permit

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=64161

(For some weird reason embassies have difficulties distinguishing between a residence permit and a residence card. The latter is not a permit.)

elannor · Post by **elannor** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:42 pm

86ti wrote:
elannor wrote:I am a NON-EEA citizen married to a British citizen. I hold a SPOUSE/PARTNER LEAVE TO REMAIN Residence Permit
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=64161

(For some weird reason embassies have difficulties distinguishing between a residence permit and a residence card. The latter is not a permit.)

MANY THANKS, I WILL READ IT =)

desi_parrot · Post by **desi_parrot** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:34 am

well same thing happend to me
i was going to spain through germnay frankfurt. with Eu family member resident card.. and my wife was with me as well
but german border force didnt not let us go to spanish plane..
imagine wasted about 600 pound. hotel. expensis.. and others. and came back to uk .. next flight
thank God . they didnt put deportation stamp on my passport.
and didnt give me any official letter like i was refused to give visa.
that was so bad
i tell you they play with laws. dont trust them
always get a visa before going
thanks

Edsli · Post by **Edsli** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:39 am

Hi all

I am a non EEA national married with EEA national, we both live and work in the UK. Me and my husband we traveled a lot and I dont have any problem in the airport or in any EU borders, I only showed the endorsement I have stamped in my passport "Residence Card of a Family member of EEA National", no problem because we were traveling together. Recently, my passport has expired so I got a new one now. The documents that I have in my old passport was only valid for 5 yrs so I renewed a new one and I got it, but the endorsement that stamped in my new passport is kinda different, of course is already a PERMANENT RESIDENCE CARD, but doesn't says that I am a PERMANENT RESIDENCE CARD OF A FAMILY MEMBER OF EEA NATIONAL.
I am a bit confused. Do you think I can still travel to EU countries using this new document I have or should I use still my old passport to show my EEA family permit even though written the validity date is already done? I am a bit worried, me and my husband booked for another short holiday in Portugal soon, but I am not sure what to do.

Please I need any advice or help
Thank you

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:20 pm

Your permanent residence card is just as good for travel as the residence card you had. In theory, you should not have any problems using it. However, I suspect that these would be relatively uncommon (given that the five year anniversary of the 2006 regs was last April). Think of yourself as a pioneer.

Until the Stupid, border guards, etc become used to them, you may get some additional questions. It certainly would be a good idea to have your expired residence card with you and any other proof that you are the family member of an EU citizen. I'm not saying you will have problems, but best to be prepared rather than face a ruined holiday.

You should be able to apply for a UK passport within the year. You would then be an EU citizen in your own right.

Edsli · Post by **Edsli** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:49 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:Your permanent residence card is just as good for travel as the residence card you had. In theory, you should not have any problems using it. However, I suspect that these would be relatively uncommon (given that the five year anniversary of the 2006 regs was last April). Think of yourself as a pioneer.

Until the Stupid, border guards, etc become used to them, you may get some additional questions. It certainly would be a good idea to have your expired residence card with you and any other proof that you are the family member of an EU citizen. I'm not saying you will have problems, but best to be prepared rather than face a ruined holiday.

You should be able to apply for a UK passport within the year. You would then be an EU citizen in your own right.

Thank you. Your words encouraged me not to worry that much. Yes true, I can be an EU citizen in my own right when I get my UK passport already. I still have to wait until April to complete the one year, I guess!:)

Thank you once again, really appreciated.

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

No Sehengen visa required for EEA Residence Card holders

with EU family visa refused to entre swiszerland and germany

thanks a lot for your help

one more thing..

do i need a visa??

Re: do i need a visa??

Re: do i need a visa??

refused to enter spain via germany on eu family visa

RC of a Family Member of EEA National(Expired)+(Renewed)PRC