Average Waiting Time for non Straighforward applications

[chrissy]

The feeling is mutual.....

[avjones]

To get back to the point, could you tell us exactly why the application was refused? What does the reasons for refusal letter say?

[jamalkhan]

Guys Do not fight over me, I do not deserve any sympathy
I should have really got married to my fiance legally/illegally and not come back.

any way the letter says that ECO is not satisfied that
(iii) each of the parties intends to live permanently with the other as his or her spouse or civil partner after the marriage or civil partnership

Because I got enagaged to my Fiance almost a year ago however I knew her for over 5 years and he does not believe that we are going to get married. I stated that fact that I did not want to get married at that time until both mine and her families are agreed

Once again this has been written in context with my immigration history as ECO believes that I will not follow this rule because I did not previously when I was a kid and overstayed for 9 years due to the mistakes that my elders made in the begning


Secondly he also used
(v) there will, after the marriage or civil partnership, be adequate accommodation for the parties and any dependants without recourse to public funds in accommodation which they own or occupy exclusively;

This is so not true, I provided them with the survey report of the accomodation that I wil be living in and also the signing letter of my fiances property which will be ready by end of this year.

[SYH]

Guys Do not fight over me, I do not deserve any sympathy
I should have really got married to my fiance legally/illegally and not come back.

any way the letter says that ECO is not satisfied that
(iii) each of the parties intends to live permanently with the other as his or her spouse or civil partner after the marriage or civil partnership

Because I got enagaged to my Fiance almost a year ago however I knew her for over 5 years and he does not believe that we are going to get married. I stated that fact that I did not want to get married at that time until both mine and her families are agreed

Once again this has been written in context with my immigration history as ECO believes that I will not follow this rule because I did not previously when I was a kid and overstayed for 9 years due to the mistakes that my elders made in the begning


Secondly he also used
(v) there will, after the marriage or civil partnership, be adequate accommodation for the parties and any dependants without recourse to public funds in accommodation which they own or occupy exclusively;

This is so not true, I provided them with the survey report of the accomodation that I wil be living in and also the signing letter of my fiances property which will be ready by end of this year.

Then I guess the best option would be to get married and see if that changes their minds.

[Jeff Albright]

Jamal

I am very sorry to hear that the appication has been unsuccessful.

First of all, from what you just said, let me assure you that your overstay was not the reason for this refusal.

Previous breaches of the immigration rules do make any future entry clearance application extra vulnerable. However, they rarely lead to a permanent refusal of a future application in the category leading to settlement. You always have to be double sure that the evidence provided is sufficient.

Therefore, it is always strongly recommended that you write a cover letter where you run through the paragraphs of the applicable rules, emphasize several times that you meet every single criteria of them and why you meet them, what you provide, the documents you enclose. Make it as simple as possible to ECO to follow it, make it clear that you satisfy all the requirements, cross refer your letter with your application. Do not dwell too much on what happened in the past, just a brief statement will be sufficient but concentrate more on your current circumstances and explain how they apply to the relevant paragraphs within the rules.
ECOs do not have grudge on applicants, they simply want to see in front of them that every line in their instructions is clearly met. They do not come from extra intelligent backgrounds so it is imperative that your case is chewed over to them.

You may still be successful if you reapply as a fiance or unmarried partner but if you are both married, this will make you a much stronger case and you will not have to provide so much evidence than in the former cases.

Better luck to you next time and keep us informed.

[jamalkhan]

Thanks Jeff,

This is what I thought but I can assure you in the background the ECO is really upset about the fact that I was living illegally for so long. He wanted to punish but instead he used this clause to do so.

I stated the fact that the reason I came back is because we wanted to get married in the UK. I think this was my mistake.

We got a professional immigration consultant to process this application and they also said we had a good chance.

Anyway,

Do you think we should send them a letter here in BHC to see if they review the case??

And if this is a possibility then how long does it take


We are going to appeal this anyway as we know what we are going through and there decision has destroyed our feelings. We know his grounds are absoultley pointless he just made a decission because he was simply jealous that I managed to establish myself so successfully living illegaly.

I know I did wrong but two people and two families are punished due to his decission. (WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND)

Apparently they are refusing 100's of visas every day as I saw people before me also had there VISA refused

[VictoriaS]

Your solicitor will know best about the appeal, but this is typical of refusals which are being issued at the moment.


Victoria

[jamalkhan]

Welcome to this Forum Victoria,

So how long do you thing this process now takes?

Do you think if this decission can be over ruled.

[avjones]

Were I taking this decision to appeal tomorrow, the odds would look good. But nothing can be guaranted with appeals (or applications).

[OL7MAX]

I truly believe in British justice

Apart from your overstay, this was your big mistake. That thing about British justice is a myth. The idea that British people have some indelible fairness in their DNA is a concept that the world needs to rid itself of. British people, as we have seen time and time again in surveys/stats/news and elsewhere are at least as likely as people elsewhere in the world to pocket excess change, fiddle insurance claims, claim sick leave when they are 100% well (that's theft on your employers - in case any of you were wondering what's wrong with claiming a sickie). Immigration officers are just normal people and just as likely to be crooked as anybody else. They are completely capable of deviously using the sole discretionary clause at their disposal if there's something else about you that they don't like. It's not about justice - dump your outmoded ideas!

At my kids' school they won't measure my kid's head for a hat. Why? Because of potential claims against the school. And, unfortunately, that does happen. People are opportunistic here and if they have a chance to claim some compensation they'll actively research all avenues. It's about small print, it's about loopholes, it's about getting away with as much as possible while staying just within the law. Moral and ethics don't come into it. Nor does fairness.

So, use that to your advantage. Learn everything you can about the immigration system. Spend the next few weeks reading every single thread on this forum, similar forums, UK Visas' site, the IND site... everywhere. You're bound to find, for example, that as spouse of a UK national you and your spouse can "exercise" EEA rights and there's nothing the UK can do about it (IANAL). So, stuff the immigration officers at your BHC by exploring a temporary residence in somewhere like Ireland. Then you have a route into the UK and there's sweet b*gger all the Home Office can do about it.

And, good luck.

[jamalkhan]

THank you man,

You have given me alot of hope and new idea.

I will be seeking work somewhere until the appeal is heard. Unfortunatley I belong to a tranditional family setup which is hindering my fiance to move anywhere else, however we are going to fight this the right way.

I did wrong but I learnt the lesson and I will make it right

The major problem is all my debts that I have to pay off and I do not want to go bank corrupt,

What is your thought on this

[OL7MAX]

You obviously don't want to go bankrupt before you get stay as that will make life very difficult for you. Regards what I think about your financial position - I think it's silly for anyone to get deep into debt but I won't dwell on that as this is an immigration forum, not a financial one.

[Aaliyah110]

Hi all,

This is Jamalkhan's Finacee. First of all just want to say a big thank you to you all for the advice as you can imagine we are heartbroken.

However I do have a question for the board, and that is the following:

As you are aware Jamalkhan has been rejected on the Fiance visa and now we are going to appeal however when I suggested to our immigration consultant that even when we are going to appeal can I still go to Pakistan and do the Islamic marrige of Nikka and then still go through appeal, so that when I am in front of the Judge I can say that I made the effort after fiance visa got rejected not only to go visit Jamalkhan but also do the islamic marrige. My immigration consultant said no she said that if i was to do that Jamalkhan would have to lodge a brand new spouse visa hense the appeal would no longer be valid and go through the visa application process again and still not being hundered percent sure of success so she said to go through appeal and not to go over and get married but by all means I can visit..I would like the boards views on this that should I go to Pakistan and do the islamic marrige or is my immigration consultant who is OISC registered right in saying I should not. I welcome other opnions not just hers please..

The reason why i am asking this is that on the rejection letter they obviously questioned his integrity that they do not believe he will go and get married as he overstayed 9 years. So I thought of this idea which I presented above please any suggestions would be great.

As you can imagine this is life changing process and now i really need to know how to go about things to get this rejection over turned as I need him back here asap as its emotionally dranining me.


Many thanks

[OL7MAX]

One thing you are right in doing and that is getting second opinions. No "immigration consultant" is infallible.

That said, I think they were right. If you go get married it does change his status and affects your ability to lodge an appeal. I'm no expert but why are you even considering this? Is it because you think it will result in a speedier resolution?

[brownbonno]

You can go to Pakistan and get married(the marriage must be legally recognised).Then you can lodge a new application and withdraw the appeal.
Based on the applicant previous history,appeal might not be the easy route.
No comment on Your immigration consultant advise.

[Jeff Albright]

As you are aware Jamalkhan has been rejected on the Fiance visa and now we are going to appeal however when I suggested to our immigration consultant that even when we are going to appeal can I still go to Pakistan and do the Islamic marrige of Nikka and then still go through appeal, so that when I am in front of the Judge I can say that I made the effort after fiance visa got rejected not only to go visit Jamalkhan but also do the islamic marrige. My immigration consultant said no she said that if i was to do that Jamalkhan would have to lodge a brand new spouse visa hense the appeal would no longer be valid and go through the visa application process again and still not being hundered percent sure of success so she said to go through appeal and not to go over and get married but by all means I can visit..

Your consultant was absolutely right. If he makes any other application while appeal is still pending, the appeal will be treated as withdrawn (Section 82 of INA 2002).

[Aaliyah110]

Thanks again for your comments..

OL7MAX- re- your comment - No its not for an speedy answer its to ensure that they know that we do actually mean it to get married so that when i stand in front of the Judge he does not say that oh its been 6years all you have done is got engaged why did you not marry..I was going to say in response that the reason for not being married in these years was the fact that my parents were being extremely difficult hense the reason for such a late engagment they were not agreeing to him as they wanted me to have an arranged marrige and also I was studying for my undergraduate and then My post graduate degrees and my parents were not even allowing me to talk about Jamalkhan to them until they saw that Jamalkhan had potential and that he also had his secure education and he then went and convinced my parents..

So the reason for getting married that i suggested was to go infront of the Judge to say i am married..but thanks Jeff for your comment and also the reference you have given.

Do you think that the judge will take the appeal seriously as its a fiance visa appeal that we are going to to challenge the decision?

thanks again any feedback would be great..

[Jeff Albright]

Do you think that the judge will take the appeal seriously as its a fiance visa appeal that we are going to to challenge the decision?

Of course, the judge will take this appeal seriously...
He will consider the evidence provided with the application and determine if it was sufficient to satisfy the requirements of the Rules. If it was then appeal should be allowed under the Immigration Rules. He will also have to take into consideration the length of your relationship and the Human Rights issues, as your fiance made a correct move by going abroad and applying for a correct entry clearance.

Good luck and let us know how it is progressing.

[Aaliyah110]

Thank you Jeff for your comments- Reason for asking is the the ECO wrote may i quote "I am not satisfied the applicant and the sponsor intend to marry or live in the UK, he also sates that why after 12 months after engagement we suddenly want to get married" well first of all we needed to save up and second i jst started my job middle last year and i needed to save up and thirdly when we found out it was not poss to get the COA as at that time we were not fully equipped with the knowledge of overstaying.. we mutually decided it would be best for him to go back and then come back as a fiance so we can get married and start our lufe togther.so I am bit worried the Judge may say that he is not satified either but I can prove we have loving relationhip wth lots of Photos and emails and cards I have also got a flat in my name and a savings account full of more than adeqaute money so he will not even be touching public funds even if he wanted to he couldnt but i can really support him what more can i do to get him back here and prove that i do love him and do want to marry him I am really worried and scared.

People are telling me that Fiance visa is not strong enugh and that even if i take to appeal it may not succeed.

[Jeff Albright]

Note, that the ECOs work stictly and only under the Immigration Rules and the scope of their consideration is limited to that their instructions permit. The AIT is a completely independent authority - they have jurisdiction to consider the whole range of the relevant circumstances from both parties and make a judgement accordingly. The ECO might not have taken into account some facts from your submissions, which the judge may find material to your case, which may overweigh other factors and drive decision in your favour. In addition, you should have now had a chance to provide more evidence, which may be sufficient for the judge to be satisfied that you do have genuine intentions of getting married and live together as husband and wife. I have no doubt that you do and if you put them all properly to the judge at the hearing, I see no reason why your appeal should not succeed.

[Aaliyah110]

Thanks Jeff.

Yeah im going to print out my phone bills as there is a number that i call like 10 times a day to call Jamalkhan in Pakistan..

Plus i am going to be saving all emails now that will be written to each other and Ihave told him to keep positive and I am going to continue working and Keep positive and and hopefully in time we will succeed my only worry was going to fight for the Fiance visa rejection but you have really made me feel it does not matter if it is fiance i can still go into court and have my say and maybe this can be resolved not even by going to court lets see what happens Jamal and I will keep you and the forum posted

Many thanks again

Kind Regards

[avjones]

In addition, you should have now had a chance to provide more evidence, which may be sufficient for the judge to be satisfied that you do have genuine intentions of getting married and live together as husband and wife. I have no doubt that you do and if you put them all properly to the judge at the hearing, I see no reason why your appeal should not succeed.

Don't forget, under the Nationality Immigration and Asylum Act 2002, s.85(5) the Immigration Judge tmay consider only the circumstances appertaining at the time of the decision to refuse.