English language test for UK settlement

[Wanderer]

I see an issue here as she will be effectively using a visit visa to reside, not visit.

[ukthesis]

I spoke to my wife and she is not really happy that she would only, under the residency rules (Temporary Leave to Remain and Indefinite Leave to Remain) be able to leave the UK for only 90 days in a year (making the 450 days in 5 years). She has quite a lot of commitments built up in Moldova, business and family.

She would initially come to join me from Moldova using the family of a settled person visa. According to the website, this can last for over 6 months.

https://www.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk/overview

The website talks about her bring able to extend the visa after 6 months, but makes no mention of whether, if she does this, she will be caught up in the settlement procedure which then means she is stuck with only being able to leave the UK for 90 days a year. Nor does it mention whether, using that family of a settled person visa, if she returns temporarily to Moldova, this may count against her (count against that 450 days allowed).

Basically, because of the limiting residency criterion attached to the TLR and the IRL she is trying to find out if there is a way around this. The joining family of a settled person seems as though this may be one way, but can anyone advise?

[ukthesis]

Anyone interested, I posted a followup on another forum.

[CR001]

A family of settled person visa is issued for 33 months initally.

It is only the fiance visa (not applicable to her as already married) that is issued for 6 months and extendable in the UK.

You keep talking about the 450 days absence limit. This is only applicable when she eventually gets to the citizenship part, which she does not have to apply for.

If she does the family of settled person visa and travels in and out and then eventually applies for ILR, only absences of 6 months or more need to be declared. She can also perpetually keep extending her spouse visa. There is no rules that she HAS TO apply for ILR or citizenship.

[Casa]

Also, as has already been explained to you, the 90 day absence rule applies to a British citizenship application, not ILR or during the 5 year probationary period. If she eventually qualifies for ILR she can be absent for up to 2 years.

[noajthan]

Someone/anyone applying to come to UK needs to get with the (Home Office) programme.

Be aware, in my experience at least, HO is not overly concerned about people's happiness nor too willing to make exceptions for 'special' cases that aren't actually that out of the ordinary.

The immigration rules are a reflection of current legislation and are publicised;
so it's just a case of comply & apply.

At the end of the day noone is forced to settle nor to take on the privilege of citizenship.

If you do wish to have a degree of freedom then shift your centre of life to EU, do Surinder Singh;
If you did return to UK later on it would then be as a proxy EEA national & not as a mere BC like the rest of us.

Your choice, it's horses for courses, but EU rules are somewhat less restrictive than UK immigration framework.

[noajthan]

I see an issue here as she will be effectively using a visit visa to reside, not visit.

Good catch.
I sense HO may spot that too.

[Casa]

@noajthan I've struggled over the last few days to explain the difference between a visitor visa and spouse settlement visa. I'll leave it to you to explain 'Surinder Singh' if asked. Good luck

[CR001]

@noajthan I've struggled over the last few days to explain the difference between a visitor visa and spouse settlement visa. I'll leave it to you to explain 'Surinder Singh' if asked. Good luck

+1

[ukthesis]

I heard about the Surinder Singh route but when I asked if it still operated, I was told the Home Office had closed that particular "loophole." I know there was a lot in the media about it, and the government was saying then that they were going to address the issue. If it's still available, I would be a little surprised.

If she can come here without being subject to the 90 days a year rule, that's great. But because this whole immigration rule issue is so complicated, I always make it a practice of trying to check out information.

I understand if people argue that she more or less wants it all, but I am simply trying to get the information to pass on. I'm not making a judgement abnout the UK immigration rules on residency, whether they are right or wrong. She simply wants the same information.

[Casa]

I heard about the Surinder Singh route but when I asked if it still operated, I was told the Home Office had closed that particular "loophole." I know there was a lot in the media about it, and the government was saying then that they were going to address the issue. If it's still available, I would be a little surprised.

If she can come here without being subject to the 90 days a year rule, that's great. But because this whole immigration rule issue is so complicated, I always make it a practice of trying to check out information.

I understand if people argue that she more or less wants it all, but I am simply trying to get the information to pass on. I'm not making a judgement abnout the UK immigration rules on residency, whether they are right or wrong. She simply wants the same information.

Prepare to be surprised! Surinder Singh route is still active. https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/surinder-singh
I think you may be approaching the wrong people for advice. As you now know, the '90 day absence rule' doesn't apply for Limited Leave to Remain or ILR.

[vinny]

If she can come here without being subject to the 90 days a year rule, that's great. But because this whole immigration rule issue is so complicated, I always make it a practice of trying to check out information.

Apart from this forum, the Government website should be your first port of call.

[ukthesis]

To cut to the chase. Do the replies I received refer to these two visas, that allow her to reside here without being subject to the 90 days residency rule?

Apply to join family living permanently in the UK (to get her into the UK in the first place)

https://www.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk/extend-your-visa

https://www.gov.uk/remain-in-uk-family/overview
(To have her stay here)

I always thought that if she applied for TLR and later for ILR (settlement) the 90 days rule will apply (ie that she could not be absent over 450 days from the UK over the 5 years period making, on average, 90 days a year).

So she can also apply for TLR and not be so limited?

Thanks again.

[vinny]

I always thought that if she applied for TLR and later for ILR (settlement) the 90 days rule will apply (ie that she could not be absent over 450 days from the UK over the 5 years period).

You are mixing up naturalisation requirements with ILR requirements.

However, note that naturalisation requires ILR in this case.

[CR001]

There is no '90 day residency rule' for limited leave to remain or ILR, in any visa category that I am aware of.

The 450 days is relevant for British citizenship applications. It can be 450 days in one go or 200 days in 2 different years.

I don't understand why you keep saying about the 90 day rule. It does not apply to the 'join family in the UK' or the subsequent extensions.

[ukthesis]

Thank you but can you lead me to websites that explain this difference between residency only visas and visas leading to citizenship, where the 90 days rule comes in. How the difference between just residing here (not subject to the 90 days rule) and the naturalisation route differ. I need to understand it through, in particular, UK government websites that I can read. Best.

[vinny]

I have already given you some links.

[Casa]

I have already given you some links.

@ukthesis perhaps you don't understand that you need to click on the underlined links in blue, as at present we just appear to be repeating information.

[ukthesis]

Apologies, I am just getting used to this technology.

So this is the situation, am I right?

She can come here initially on a joining a family member in the UK visa.

Later she applies for the staying with the family member visa. There are no UK residency rules attached to these two visas.

After that, if she wants to stay here longer, she applies for ultimate settlement status (TLR and later for ILR)? According to the rules you showed, at these two stages, while there are no hard and fast UK residency rules attached to them, immigration officials may query a case where the non-EEA citizen keeps returning to their home country for let's say 5 months in a year. In this situation, the rule that she must be living "permanantly" with me as my wife might be open to challenge.

If she specifically wants, at the end of the ILR and 5 years UK residency, to apply for UK citizenship, that 90 days rule then kicks in.

Is this correct please?

[Casa]

Apologies, I am just getting used to this technology.

So this is the situation, am I right?

She can come here initially on a joining a family member in the UK visa. Yes if you meet all the rules

Later she applies for the staying with the family member visa. There are no UK residency rules attached to these two visas. 2.5 years later - Further Leave to Remain = FLR(M). Evidence of finance and co-habitation required.

After that, if she wants to stay here longer, she applies for ultimate settlement status (TLR and later for ILR)? According to the rules you showed, at these two stages, while there are no hard and fast UK residency rules attached to them, immigration officials may query a case where the non-EEA citizen keeps returning to their home country for let's say 5 months in a year. In this situation, the rule that she must be living "permanantly" with me as my wife might be open to challenge. There is no category 'TLR. 2.5 years Limited Leave to Remain is what she applies for initially from Moldova. Further Leave to Remain after 2.5 years and ILR after 5 years.

If she specifically wants, at the end of the ILR and 5 years UK residency, to apply for UK citizenship, that 90 days rule then kicks in. Yes

Is this correct please?

[ukthesis]

Much thanks guys.

The "fixed" UK residence issue (90 days a year), as was stated, would only be a problem for citizenship. To a degree it may also be an issue in the settlement procedure if the immigration officers considered that she was away from the UK for an unreasonable period, their judgement depending on the circumstances as they were explained to them. But there is no fixed (90 days a year) residence criterion aside from for citizenship applications.

While I was researching this I came across references to the EEA Family Permit. What's this and would it be a good alternative to her going through the settlement procedure we've discussed? There is no fee for this permit, it says, and although it is valid for 6 months' stay in the UK, even in the event of overstaying there is normally no problem apparently.

Best again.

[CR001]

The EEA Family Permit is not relevant or applicable to a spouse of a British Citizen living in the UK as you cannot be 'exercising treaty rights' in your home country.

If you did the Surinder Singh route in another other EU state, then it would be applicable to return to the UK under the EEA route.

[ukthesis]

Much thanks for all the sage advice. Best wishes. Dave.

[ukthesis]

I just spoke on Skype to my wife in Moldova. This one is a very simple question but she is worried about giving them the wrong answer.

The Standard Visitor Visa online form. It asks her "Country of Nationality."

Now she was born in the Ukraine and she Ukrainian nationality. However the only passport she has is Moldovan. She also has Moldovan nationality. She she has dual Ukrainian and Moldovan nationality.

Which does she put down? Ukraine or Moldova? On the front page there is no space to write she has dual nationality. (Later in the form she can tell them that.) She can only choose one nationality on the front page of the form.

My own guess is she writes Moldova for her nationality, because she only has the Moldovan passport. And that happens to be where she now lives and it applying from. Is that your opinion?

Best.

[Casa]

I just spoke on Skype to my wife in Moldova. This one is a very simple question but she is worried about giving them the wrong answer.

The Standard Visitor Visa online form. It asks her "Country of Nationality."

Now she was born in the Ukraine and she Ukrainian nationality. However the only passport she has is Moldovan. She also has Moldovan nationality. She she has dual Ukrainian and Moldovan nationality.

Which does she put down? Ukraine or Moldova? On the front page there is no space to write she has dual nationality. (Later in the form she can tell them that.) She can only choose one nationality on the front page of the form.

My own guess is she writes Moldova for her nationality, because she only has the Moldovan passport. And that happens to be where she now lives and it applying from. Is that your opinion?

Best.

Moldovan, but she can mention the dual Ukraine/Moldova nationality later in the form. Do make sure that in the visa application she submits very strong documented evidence showing reasons to return to Moldova. When an applicant has a spouse living in the UK visitor visas come under a great deal of scrutiny.