Req for EEA PR app. Non EEA (37 Y) + Dutch Dad (70 Y)

[vinny]

Just more info my first application was refused in 2011 when I first applied for RC as I was 32 at that time but won the case on appeal.

It may be useful to know the basis on which you were refused and how you won your appeal.

Were you treated as a dependent family member or an extended family member in the same household of your father?

[akhr90]

Hi Vinny/Noajthan

My wife was treated as extended family member and i would like to share all my case decision with you for a clear picture. How can I upload any file on this forum so that I can scan all my case outcome and share with u?

Also one more thing if we all go for Reg 5. Will my dad be able to sponsor anyone in future if he want to bring his other sons here from NON EEA country?

Thanks.

Regards

[noajthan]

Hi Vinny/Noajthan

My wife was treated as extended family member and i would like to share all my case decision with you for a clear picture. How can I upload any file on this forum so that I can scan all my case outcome and share with u?

Also one more thing if we all go for Reg 5. Will my dad be able to sponsor anyone in future if he want to bring his other sons here from NON EEA country?

Thanks.

Regards

You can only attach certain file types (possibly size-limited).
If you attach something, do anonymise it first.

If your father has PR status confirmed (or else reverts to exercising treaty rights in one or other category of qualified person) then my understanding is he could, in principle, sponsor dependents (various family members) under the regulations and EU law.
ie if they are dependent on him in some way (& can prove it).

You can get a handle on such matters here, for FM:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v3_0.pdf

& here for EFM:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf

[noajthan]

Note: rereading the above documents suggests it is only direct family members who can qualify for confirmation of PR under Regulation 5 due to retirement of sponsor.
Ref page 23 of first doc (direct FM).

Something you may wish to dig into further.

If that is the case then daughter-in-law may have to serve her 5 years of residence in UK (with EEA sponsor) after all (as HO appear to have classed her as an EFM for some reason).

In this case, the usual caveats would apply: you remain married; wife remains dependent on EEA sponsor, sponsor remains in UK, no Brexit & etc.

This will still not impact baby son if you (OP) have your PR status confirmed as a direct FM.

[noajthan]

...

Ok let me tell you in summarize way:
House is rented on Dad's name he is the head of household.

My Father (Sponsor Dutch)
Came to UK June 2010
Worked for 9 months
After that he was self employed until March 2015.
Getting pension from NL, pension from UK, pension credit, housing benefits, council tax support

...

Due care and diligence. Looking again at Regulation 5 of EEA Regulations in the interest of crosschecking and verification.

Worker or self-employed person who has ceased activity

5.(1) In these Regulations,
“worker or self-employed person who has ceased activity” means an EEA national who satisfies the conditions in paragraph (2), (3), (4) or (5).

(2) A person satisfies the conditions in this paragraph if he
(a)terminates his activity as a worker or self-employed person and
(i)has reached the age at which he is entitled to a state pension on the date on which he terminates his activity; or
(ii) in the case of a worker, ceases working to take early retirement;
(b )pursued his activity as a worker or self-employed person in the United Kingdom for at least twelve months prior to the termination; and
(c) resided in the United Kingdom continuously for more than three years prior to the termination.

Ref http://www.eearegulations.co.uk/Latest/ByPage/part1_5

It looks like EEA sponsor/father was 68 or 69 years old on retirement - is that correct
Is it safe to say father was at or over state retirement age when he retired in 2015

[akhr90]

Hi Noajthan,

Many thanks again for your precious input.

Yes he was 69 last year when he retired last year in 2015.


I have one question, whole afternoon and evening I spent time in reading the whole case of my self and my Mrs. At the time of my case Dad's wasn't claiming any benefits at all in 2011.

But at the time of my Mrs RC in Sep 2014. He was claiming all the benefits and I was working full time as well. And she got RC in 11 days.

What is your opinion in this scenario? I am confused as I applied her RC as EFM and it was gone through successfully even he was claiming everything.

Please advise regarding this.

Many thanks

[akhr90]

And can I use EEA4 form (Old version) instead of this gigantic 87 page EEA PR form (New 03/2016 version)?

Please advise if you have got any reference regarding this?


Many thanks.

[noajthan]

Hi Noajthan,

Many thanks again for your precious input.

Yes he was 69 last year when he retired last year in 2015.

I have one question, whole afternoon and evening I spent time in reading the whole case of my self and my Mrs. At the time of my case Dad's wasn't claiming any benefits at all in 2011.

But at the time of my Mrs RC in Sep 2014. He was claiming all the benefits and I was working full time as well. And she got RC in 11 days.

What is your opinion in this scenario? I am confused as I applied her RC as EFM and it was gone through successfully even he was claiming everything.

Please advise regarding this.

Many thanks

So father hit a good retirement age which, as per my understanding, keeps the Reg 5 show on the road.

As mentioned previously I don't know much about the benefits side of it.
But as I mentioned earlier, evidently HO and/or the appeal judge accepted your status and any/all parties' access to benefits at the RC stage.

My main concern is whether your wife as an EFM can use the Reg 5 route with you, baby and father.
If you read my post above you can see it may be that she cannot.

I still don't understand why she's classed by HO as an EFM by the RC she was issued with
Hope it doesn't mean that you are now an EFM too, (again as mentioned in posts above).

Need other wisdom on this.
If you can post extracts from the decision letter/s that may help to clarify it too.

[noajthan]

And can I use EEA4 form (Old version) instead of this gigantic 87 page EEA PR form (New 03/2016 version)?

Please advise if you have got any reference regarding this?

Many thanks.

HO guidance itself confirms that the latest, greatest form is not a legal and mandatory requirement.

From guidance:

It’s not mandatory to use the EEA(PR) application form but it will assist us in dealing with your application more efficiently if you do. Even if you choose not to use this form, you must pay the specified fee, submit the relevant supporting documents and (if you’re a non-EEA national) give your biometric information.

Ref https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -04_KP.pdf

You could be hardcore and apply by letter.

Others go commando and use an earlier (simpler) version of the form.
(To be found in forum and/or in the Gov UK archives website).

See also: https://www.freemovement.org.uk/home-of ... mandatory/

[akhr90]

@noajthan

Need other wisdom on this.
If you can post extracts from the decision letter/s that may help to clarify it too.

You mean about my decision letter in which I was granted RC? If that's the one you are asking I will definitely post it tomorrow I have scanned them all but currently making them anonymous.

[akhr90]

You are star for the link of HO guidance regarding the form.


Many thanks.

[akhr90]

Hi All,

First of all my sincere apologies If I can submit the post here or not? As I am having my own thread which I am looking to resolve.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 04-20.html

I am NON EEA aged 37 and got my RC (When i was 32) on behalf of my EEA National who is my Dad and he is 70. I am due to apply for PR in this month. My wife is also Non EEA she got RC in Sep 2014 on behalf of my dad and at the time my dad was receiving all kind of benefits plus he was self employed.

My question is that claiming benefits by EEA National going to be problem now? And also I just started 2 months ago Child benefits for my 1 year old who was born in UK as well.

Please advise if anyone can shed some light on it?

Many thanks.

[akhr90]

Claiming child benefits by RC holder who is Non EEA going to be a problem?

Please advise!!

[akhr90]

Hi All,

Just to update you, today I have submitted my EEA PR on behalf of my father under reg 7. I found some guidance and ref in case worker instructions.

Hope and wish all goes well.

Regards

[noajthan]

Hi All,

Just to update you, today I have submitted my EEA PR on behalf of my father under reg 7. I found some guidance and ref in case worker instructions.

Hope and wish all goes well.

Regards

Reg 7 or 5?

If it was useful to you it may also help others to share those cw instructions here.

[akhr90]

Reg 7 100%

Because if I have applied under Reg 5 then he can't sponsor anyone in near future. And I have done his 2015-2016 tax return along with letter from accountant.

It is indeed very useful to me in my application. Lets see how it goes.

Tomorrow morning I will send you the exact link of cw in which he clearly mentioned that under Reg 7 doesn't mean an applicant has to be fully 100% dependent on the sponsor for EEA PR. Both can share rent and other expenses too.

So I included all the cw reference in my application along with the cw instructions print out.

I have sent almost 300 different kind of documents for myself & for my dad.

But i will definitely share everything.

[akhr90]

And in addition to all. I have filled the 85 pages new v. 05/2016 form.

[noajthan]

Reg 7 100%

Because if I have applied under Reg 5 then he can't sponsor anyone in near future. And I have done his 2015-2016 tax return along with letter from accountant.

It is indeed very useful to me in my application. Lets see how it goes.

Tomorrow morning I will send you the exact link of cw in which he clearly mentioned that under Reg 7 doesn't mean an applicant has to be fully 100% dependent on the sponsor for EEA PR. Both can share rent and other expenses too.

So I included all the cw reference in my application along with the cw instructions print out.

I have sent almost 300 different kind of documents for myself & for my dad.

But i will definitely share everything.

Do that.

But its well known that a child's dependency on the EEA sponsor may only be, say 50%.

The applicant does not need to be dependent on the relevant EEA national to meet all or most of their essential needs

And that would be the case under Regulation 5 or Regulation 7.

You may have misunderstood Regulation 5. Its just another way for an EEA national to acquire PR status.
There is no 'good PR' or 'bad PR', its all good.
And if someone has PR (no matter how it was acquired, whether via reg 5 or reg 7) they can sponsor any family member (if they have funds).

The problem comes if someone does not have PR nor exercise treaty rights (anymore), then they have no basis to reside in UK;
(unless ofcourse they themselves have some other EEA sponsor).

Interesting to see how a caseworker sorts this case out as father did not acquire PR in a regular way before retiring (he was a little shy of 5 years treaty rights);
now he's retired he cannot sponsor anyone if he does not have PR.

It all depends on what period you have used, whether HO actually considers you as an FM or EFM, and whom is actually dependent on whom - as discussed earlier in this thread.

If father's PR status is not confirmed then the whole thing collapses like a house of cards.
So hope for the best but plan for the worst.
Suggest come up with a Plan B for that eventuality.

As intimated earlier:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... l#p1356913

[akhr90]

Application posted on : 23.06.2016
Received by HO on : 24.06.2016
Payment taken on : 29.06.2016
Bio letter received on : 30.07.2016
Biometrics Enrolled on : 01.08.2016
COA With Work : 05.08.2016
Resident Card: Refused on 19.01.2017
Documents returned: 23.01.2017

Going to appeal (got 14 days), the decision made by UKBA totally non-sense decision. I found the solution too in Direct family member guideline for Home Office staff on this link.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -nationals

I came to UK in June 2004, I fulfilled my 10 Year LR requirement too in 2014 but thought i should go for this route and keep the 10 Year LR route as a backup.

Lets see how it goes now ...

[akhr90]

I applied as FM.

The refusal reasons are all about dependency he is saying how come you are dependent when you are earning 35K and my dad is earning less.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -nationals

Check page 12 on the above link will explain all. I am sure the senior will help me with this. I am doing my paper work (Appeal) by myself.

[Obie]

If you fail on the EEA, you are highly likely to fail on the Long residence, as the time under the regulation will only be considered under the Long Residence if they are convinced that you are genuinely dependent.

[akhr90]

Hi Obie

So you recommended i should appeal and at the same time or after a week apply for ILR (LR) as well?

Please advise.

Thanks.

[Obie]

Well I do not know. I am merely expressing a view based on the law.

If there assessment is correct on EEA, and if it is not successfully overturned, it will affect ILR long residence.

[akhr90]

Well in the refusal detail, they clearly mentioned 4 different route and also mentioned if you think that you can apply under different law please do so, we will consider your application under that category.

[Obie]

Well because they mention 4 routes does not mean you qualify under 4 route. They have standard refusal saying you can apply under private and family life or other residence card, but that statement does not equate to qualifications under those route.