EC long-term residence permit for non-EU nationals

[exoticbeauty]

I am not sure why you would think that Directive 2003/109/EC would be of relevance here.

well becouse i am a third country citizen,holdin a permanent resident permit,things in my family do not work good and we might split up,so then im no longer under 2004/38 directive...and the 2003/109 says that you can move to another member state(with some conditions of course) but it says "once you moved to another state,you have to apply for residence before your 90 days expire " so how could i possibly move to another state,look for job or univercity to study and see if i can find a place to live etc if i cant visit that country ...maybe im wrong and i just see what i want to see,but i though it was logic that i can enter any state now(exept uk,irl and denmark),will i stay up to 90 day or will i ask for residence its my own business,for the moment i like it in Romania,but i wanted to visit other states as a tourist,though i could and romanian imigrant office says that i CAN visit other states without husband if im married or even if i was never married but if i hold permanent residence of EU and i do

[86ti]

If this "residence card" was issued under Romanian national law than 2004/38 wouldn't apply to you anyway.

[exoticbeauty]

i didnt ask if 2004/38 apply to my case,i know it does,becouse it has been checked since 2007 many times,just some custom workers seems to be less informed than the ones who cross the border.
My question was about drective for third country nationals who is granted long term residense status by european standarts.Which has nothing to do with me being a family member of EU at this point.
But it seems that u r not getting my point. either didnt read 2003/109 either you know it so well by your own experience and you want to tell me that i can not enter any other EU state with a permanent permit issued by one EU state.
the card is issued by european standarts under directives from EU,adopted to national law as well ,but not changed in a favor for anyone,its simply translated in romanian language,word to word to the original one...
my card looks exactly like romanian citizen's ID,just it has an european flag in the center of it and says im "permanent resident and family member" if i divorce it will be changed to a small one,pink with blue if i remember correct which actually was by germans and in Germany,becouse Romania didnt have such technology (back to 2004-2007)

[86ti]

I think, you wll have to find out if your particular residence permit is in the 'List of residence permits referred to in Article 2(15) of Regulation (EC) No 562/2006'. I suspect only current Schengen members can report their residence permits in this way to the EU comission.

[exoticbeauty]

Maybe,i have to find out on what base romanian immigrant office publishes the info that ANY permanent resident of Romania has the same travel rights as romanian citizens.Becouse they clearly wrote it in a guide for non-eu citizens book.They also say,the only difference between resident and citizen of Romania is that the first one cant vote or be participate in elections

[meandmyfriends]

Hello,

I am in a simillar situation. I am Republic Of Moldova (non-Member State) citizen. I have an "EC long-term residence" permit (in terms of Directive 2003/109/EC) issued by Romanian authorities. It was issued based on 5 yars legal stay and is valid for next 5 years.

I am going to Slovenia this summer so I asked their ambassy in Bucharest (they do not have Consulate in Bucharest). They replied that I do have need a visa or have to be married to an UE citizen. After doing some research I found the site of their Interior Ministry which explicitly states that EC long-term residents can stay in Slovenia up to 3 months without visa, just having the permit. Here is the link:
http://www.mnz.gov.si/en/mnz_for_you/fo ... e_country/

After presenting this site to Ambassy representative they said that I am right.

I do not blame them, probably they do not have "customers" like me every day. For sure they do not have, because it is an Ambassy, not Consulate. Still I am prepared to have problems at the border control - their police may be not aware of this law as well.

Bearing in mind my future potential travels I have asked consulates of several CE Member States whether or not I am allowed to enter without visa. I am always speaking about short touristic stays.

All of them, like Slovenian's, responded negative: Spain, Italy and France.

I replyed "what about 2003/109/EC?" and brought Slovenia as an example of possible positive response. The lady from French consulate was very helpfull and explained me that whereas France is part of Schengen Treaty, Romania is not, so there is no way for me to avoid visa application and sent me to Slovenia, "as they have better conditions for me", or to Romanian Border Police for advice. (Slovenia is in Schengen too).

Spain and Italy did not answered yet.

Waiting for their answers I did some research about 2003/109/EC implementions, which led to following results:

I found an immigration company stating that visa is not necessary for EC long-term residence to enter Italy but I guess it has no value for border police:
http://www.mpimmigration.com/index.php? ... 7&Itemid=1

Slovenia: positive (clear stated).
http://www.mnz.gov.si/en/mnz_for_you/fo ... e_country/

Finland: positive (slightly ambiguous).
http://www.migri.fi/netcomm/content.asp ... anguage=EN

Latvia: negative (clear stated).
http://www.pmlp.gov.lv/en/pakalpojumi/eiropa.html

Cititation from Latvian site: "The visas will be necessary ... because the
Directive 2003/109/EC applies to the residence of persons in one of the
countries but not to the traveling"

Formally they may be right, IMHO. The Directive does not explicitly states that I do not need visa for short touristic stays. On the other hand I think that I am quite logical when, from Directive's goal and statement that I need residence permit for stays longer than 3 months, I draw a conclusion that I do not need one for shorter stays.

What I am going to use in my discutions whith Member States authorities is Article 11 "Equal treatment", paragraph 1, point (h):

1. Long-term residents shall enjoy equal treatment with nationals as regards:
...
(h) free access to the entire territory of the Member State concerned, within the limits provided for by the national legislation for reasons of security.

Does anybody know what legal meaning for Member States do have EC Directives? Are they just a "guide-lines" or all Member States are obliged to implement them? In my opinion it's more like guide-lines because it is full of ambiguities like "free access" and "within the limits provided for by the national legislation" in the same proposition. So every Member State is actually free to proceed as they wish. One thing all states have implemented, they renamed their old kind of residence permits to "EC long-term residence".

Please keep updated this thread with information how you managed, or failed, to use your "EC long-term residency" for free movement withing EC. So will I.

Good luck.


Link to the Directive I used:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 109:en:NOT