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new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

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cs95tdg
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Post by cs95tdg » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:46 pm

Bildor wrote:Please correct me if i am wrong but doesnt this mean that for Tier 1 Gerneral, as long as your absence does not exceed 180 days in any calender year, continuous 5yr period is not broken (a) ; and absence does not have to be consistent with purpose for being in the UK (b)

(b) Except for periods when the applicant had leave as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Exceptional Talent) Migrant, a highly skilled migrant, a businessperson, an innovator, an investor, a self-employed lawyer or a writer, composer or artist:

(i) the applicant must have been employed in the UK continuously throughout the five years, under the terms of their Certificate of Sponsorship, work permit or in the employment for which they were given leave to enter or remain, except that any breaks in employment in which they applied for leave as a Tier 2 Migrant, or, under Tier 5 Temporary Worker (International Agreement) Migrant as a private servant in a diplomatic household, where in the latter case they applied to enter the UK before 6 April 2012, to work for a new employer shall be disregarded, provided this is within 60 days of the end of their employment with their previous employer or Sponsor; and

(ii) any absences from the UK during the five years must have been for a purpose that is consistent with the continuous employment in (i), including paid annual leave or for serious or compelling reasons.
I fundamentally agree. Note that point b) i & ii do not apply to Tier 1 G Migrants based on whats stated above. There still appears to be a disconnect in some of the rules themselves and what the SET(O) form asks.

For example under the Tier 1 General Migrant section of the rules it states the following:

(j) The applicant must provide the specified documents in paragraph 245CD-SD to evidence the reason for the absences set out in paragraph 245AAA, where the absence was due to a serious or compelling reason. (But if what is stated in point b) i & ii under 245AAA doesn't apply to T1 G Migrants then this evidence would not be required!)

245CD-SD Specified documents
The specified documents referred to in paragraph 245CD(j) are:

A personal letter from the applicant which includes full details of the reason for the absences and all original supporting documents in relation to those reasons - e.g. medical certificates, birth/death certificates, information about the reasons which led to the absence from the UK.

Independent to the above the SET(O) form still asks the following question, which now really appear to be irrelevant based on the latest immigration rule changes. So unless I've missed something, there certainly appears to be a disconnect between Immigration Rules & Application form.
D2. Please confirm whether you have been outside of the UK for any single absence over 3 months or one or more absences which amount to more than 6 month in total during the 5 year period:

maliksab
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Post by maliksab » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:49 pm

how about mine case where i have taken two unpaid holidays in 5 years stay in uk.

i have 15 days unpaid .........when i had my nikkah done (got married)

then i had 54 unpaid.........when i had wedding reception........


then have said in above email that family visit while you are unemployed which is certainely not case in my situation.


do you know if my holidays will be counted as "compelling or compassionate ground"//

akash08
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Post by akash08 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:19 pm

Guys,

Just back from Solihull, PEO and got the ILR approval. I had exactly the same case like the topic maker. Came as work permit holder, changed to Tier 1 and went back to India to serve the notice period and came here and took the new job.

I never thought it can be a problem but the topic maker's enquiry with UKBA and their answer made me very worried yesterday night. Ok, as I suspected there was not a single question asked. Ofcourse I was not stupid enough to write all this detail in the form, i simply wrote business trip against the absence and this is not wrong. During your notice period, you do work, get paid (may not be in UK, so what?? They do not ask payslips 5 year back).

So, all people who are worrying, do yourselves a favour - do not worry and if possible, do not educate UKBA by repeated queries so that they can come up with these catches later on and create difficulties for future applications..

Wishing everyone all the best..

cs95tdg
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Post by cs95tdg » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:39 pm

akash08 wrote:Guys,

Just back from Solihull, PEO and got the ILR approval. I had exactly the same case like the topic maker. Came as work permit holder, changed to Tier 1 and went back to India to serve the notice period and came here and took the new job.

I never thought it can be a problem but the topic maker's enquiry with UKBA and their answer made me very worried yesterday night. Ok, as I suspected there was not a single question asked. Ofcourse I was not stupid enough to write all this detail in the form, i simply wrote business trip against the absence and this is not wrong. During your notice period, you do work, get paid (may not be in UK, so what?? They do not ask payslips 5 year back).

So, all people who are worrying, do yourselves a favour - do not worry and if possible, do not educate UKBA by repeated queries so that they can come up with these catches later on and create difficulties for future applications..

Wishing everyone all the best..
Congrats on getting your ILR! Based on what you've stated your 5 year residence consisted of WP + T1G. Can you confirm whether you applied using the previous SET(O) form or the form published last week? When you say you weren't asked a single question, I presume you mean any questions related to absences and that you didn't provide a employer letter to confirm your annual leave/business related absences while on a Work Permit & were not asked for one. Can you confirm?

maliksab
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Post by maliksab » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:42 pm

how many holidays you had in 5 years

akash08
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Post by akash08 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:48 pm

cs95tdg wrote:
akash08 wrote:Guys,

Just back from Solihull, PEO and got the ILR approval. I had exactly the same case like the topic maker. Came as work permit holder, changed to Tier 1 and went back to India to serve the notice period and came here and took the new job.

I never thought it can be a problem but the topic maker's enquiry with UKBA and their answer made me very worried yesterday night. Ok, as I suspected there was not a single question asked. Ofcourse I was not stupid enough to write all this detail in the form, i simply wrote business trip against the absence and this is not wrong. During your notice period, you do work, get paid (may not be in UK, so what?? They do not ask payslips 5 year back).

So, all people who are worrying, do yourselves a favour - do not worry and if possible, do not educate UKBA by repeated queries so that they can come up with these catches later on and create difficulties for future applications..

Wishing everyone all the best..
Congrats on getting your ILR! Based on what you've stated your 5 year residence consisted of WP + T1G. Can you confirm whether you applied using the previous SET(O) form or the form published last week? When you say you weren't asked a single question, I presume you mean any questions related to absences and that you didn't provide a employer letter to confirm your annual leave/business related absences while on a Work Permit & were not asked for one. Can you confirm?
I used the old form willingly (I had the new form filled up and ready if asked) after reading all these discussion.

Yes I did not provide any letter for any absence (I had them ready if asked) and not a single question was asked about any leave. The CW asked me on what date I started working for the current company and so I guess he can clearly make out that I had a long enough absence (35 days) when I was on work permit but he never asked any question about any absence.

akash08
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Post by akash08 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:56 pm

maliksab wrote:how many holidays you had in 5 years
150

thatsy
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Post by thatsy » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:24 pm

akash08 wrote:Guys,
Just back from Solihull, PEO and got the ILR approval. I had exactly the same case like the topic maker.
Firstly, Congratulations.

Did you have any unpaid holidays? i.e., travel outside UK for which you were not paid in the UK. If so, what was the max you took at any one time?

Regards

humanvoid
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new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

Post by humanvoid » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:26 pm

akash08 wrote: So, all people who are worrying, do yourselves a favour - do not worry and if possible, do not educate UKBA by repeated queries so that they can come up with these catches later on and create difficulties for future applications..
Let me disagree here as we need to get educated, the better we prepared, the less chances we fall into a trap.
akash08 wrote: I used the old form willingly (I had the new form filled up and ready if asked) after reading all these discussion.
You applied under old rules that's why they have been "nice" with you.

Congratulations by the way.

thatsy
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Re: new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

Post by thatsy » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:34 pm

humanvoid wrote:You applied under old rules that's why they have been "nice" with you.
Just want to point that he may have applied using the old form but not under old rules. The new rules took effect from Dec 13 2012. But, I do agree with your sentiment ... they will probably continue to be nice until Jan 3.

Here's an extract from http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... tion-forms

"In line with paragraph 34(i) of the Immigration Rules, we will continue to accept applications made on the previous version of these forms up to and including 3 January 2013. We will consider any application submitted on or after 13 December 2012 under the revised Immigration Rules regardless of which version of the application form is sent."
Last edited by thatsy on Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

humanvoid
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Re: new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

Post by humanvoid » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:08 pm

thatsy wrote:Just want to point that he may have applied using the old form but not under old rules. The new rules took effect from Dec 13 2012. But, I do agree with your sentiment ... they will probably continue to be nice until Jan 3.
Logically thinking, what if the old form is missing what is required by new rules to be provided/filled in/stated? i think there is always grace period.

M2008
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Re: new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

Post by M2008 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:00 pm

humanvoid wrote:
thatsy wrote:Just want to point that he may have applied using the old form but not under old rules. The new rules took effect from Dec 13 2012. But, I do agree with your sentiment ... they will probably continue to be nice until Jan 3.
Logically thinking, what if the old form is missing what is required by new rules to be provided/filled in/stated? i think there is always grace period.
grace period ends on 3rd Jan for using old application.

I have appointment on 11th Jan. We need convincing reason on application form.

Holiday or Visiting family or annual leave or business trip.... do not know which one to put

cs95tdg
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Re: new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

Post by cs95tdg » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:10 pm

M2008 wrote:grace period ends on 3rd Jan for using old application.

I have appointment on 11th Jan. We need convincing reason on application form.

Holiday or Visiting family or annual leave or business trip.... do not know which one to put
What is the length of the absence(s) in question? I presume the breaks were all while unemployed? If they are only short absences and you were employed soon after (i.e. meaning there would be no way a case worker would be able to see that you were unemployed during that time period) then I'd say you could give any reason you wanted.

ilr_appln
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Post by ilr_appln » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:41 pm

Please have a look at the sticky note posted 1 year back, interestingly all these points are there as well. Have look at answer to Q16.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=79378

BTW, do we have to give any other proof for the period of absence other than the entry stamps on the passports to uk/other countries ? Like boarding passes or printout of travel itinerary?

Regards

M2008
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Re: new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

Post by M2008 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:13 pm

cs95tdg wrote:
M2008 wrote:grace period ends on 3rd Jan for using old application.

I have appointment on 11th Jan. We need convincing reason on application form.

Holiday or Visiting family or annual leave or business trip.... do not know which one to put
What is the length of the absence(s) in question? I presume the breaks were all while unemployed? If they are only short absences and you were employed soon after (i.e. meaning there would be no way a case worker would be able to see that you were unemployed during that time period) then I'd say you could give any reason you wanted.
60 days-> need to take chance... Annual leave + Business trip....

both does not require proof

humanvoid
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Re: new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

Post by humanvoid » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:52 pm

cs95tdg wrote:If they are only short absences and you were employed soon after (i.e. meaning there would be no way a case worker would be able to see that you were unemployed during that time period) then I'd say you could give any reason you wanted.
What about P60 or employment history for last 5 years? It can be easily tracked from these docs.

M2008
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Re: new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

Post by M2008 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:58 pm

humanvoid wrote:
cs95tdg wrote:If they are only short absences and you were employed soon after (i.e. meaning there would be no way a case worker would be able to see that you were unemployed during that time period) then I'd say you could give any reason you wanted.
What about P60 or employment history for last 5 years? It can be easily tracked from these docs.
You need to defend P60 or employment history are not mandatory for ILR.

Luckily I worked for same employer after break.If needed P60 will help

humanvoid
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Re: new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

Post by humanvoid » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:00 pm

M2008 wrote:I have appointment on 11th Jan. We need convincing reason on application form.
Holiday or Visiting family or annual leave or business trip.... do not know which one to put
Holiday, family visits, non-UK employment would not be considered as a valid reason for absence as we have seen from their replies. Annual leave or business trip should be whilst you were on UK payroll as I understand.

All this just seems wrong to be honest and again it is NOT in immigration rules.

cs95tdg
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Re: new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

Post by cs95tdg » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:01 pm

humanvoid wrote:
cs95tdg wrote:If they are only short absences and you were employed soon after (i.e. meaning there would be no way a case worker would be able to see that you were unemployed during that time period) then I'd say you could give any reason you wanted.
What about P60 or employment history for last 5 years? It can be easily tracked from these docs.
I'm not sure I totally understand what you mean here, in that the P60 will state your total taxable pay & tax paid for the entire financial year. But it would not have anything which would indicate that you were absent from the country during any particular time period during that year. Or am I missing what you mean't to say here?

Note also that the P60 is not a mandatory document, so may not come into the equation, unless you plan to use it as evidence for previous earnings.

humanvoid
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Re: new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

Post by humanvoid » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:03 pm

M2008 wrote: You need to defend P60 or employment history are not mandatory for ILR.
help
What do you mean under "defend"? If it s not requirement, why everyone submits P60 for 5 years, or probably I have missed this bit?

cs95tdg
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Re: new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

Post by cs95tdg » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:08 pm

humanvoid wrote:If it s not requirement, why everyone submits P60 for 5 years, or probably I have missed this bit?
It's not a requirement, but some case workers have in the past asked for them to confirm economic activity during residency. It's certainly not a must, i.e. not stated as a requirement, but is a nice to have (based on past applicant experiences) in case a case worker asks for it.

M2008
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Re: new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

Post by M2008 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:09 pm

humanvoid wrote:
M2008 wrote:I have appointment on 11th Jan. We need convincing reason on application form.
Holiday or Visiting family or annual leave or business trip.... do not know which one to put
Holiday, family visits, non-UK employment would not be considered as a valid reason for absence as we have seen from their replies. Annual leave or business trip should be whilst you were on UK payroll as I understand.

All this just seems wrong to be honest and again it is NOT in immigration rules.
As per their reply, no questions asked if they are Annual leave or business trip. They only know you are out of UK payroll if you submit employment history.

Holiday or family visit can be derived from Annual leave, so they can't object.

humanvoid
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Re: new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

Post by humanvoid » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:10 pm

cs95tdg wrote:I'm not sure I totally understand what you mean here, in that the P60 will state your total taxable pay & tax paid for the entire financial year. But it would not have anything which would indicate that you were absent from the country during any particular time period during that year. Or am I missing what you mean't to say here?

Note also that the P60 is not a mandatory document, so may not come into the equation, unless you plan to use it as evidence for previous earnings.
What I wanted to say is that in my case if I miss some P60s for the first year and will have to submit my pay slips from the date I started to work, that absence, which was before I started to work, would be on spot. But I do not know if HMRC employment history specifies start date as well.

M2008
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Re: new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

Post by M2008 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:15 pm

humanvoid wrote:
cs95tdg wrote:I'm not sure I totally understand what you mean here, in that the P60 will state your total taxable pay & tax paid for the entire financial year. But it would not have anything which would indicate that you were absent from the country during any particular time period during that year. Or am I missing what you mean't to say here?

Note also that the P60 is not a mandatory document, so may not come into the equation, unless you plan to use it as evidence for previous earnings.
What I wanted to say is that in my case if I miss some P60s for the first year and will have to submit my pay slips from the date I started to work, that absence, which was before I started to work, would be on spot. But I do not know if HMRC employment history specifies start date as well.
HMRC history will have start and end date if your employer filled form with HMRC (do not know the name of form)

akash08
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Post by akash08 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:23 pm

thatsy wrote:
akash08 wrote:Guys,
Just back from Solihull, PEO and got the ILR approval. I had exactly the same case like the topic maker.
Firstly, Congratulations.

Did you have any unpaid holidays? i.e., travel outside UK for which you were not paid in the UK. If so, what was the max you took at any one time?

Regards
Yes 35 days in India.. when I went to resign.. (officially busines trip - yes I went to handover my responsbility to some guy at offshore... perfectly fine)

Locked