Citizenship and Traffic offence

[Gyfrinachgar]

@Admins and Mods: These and similar questions pop up in regular intervals, and this particular thread has already generated over 5600 views (a value normally only reached by the clubs) - so there is a considerable interest in this topic. Therefore, I thought it might be useful if you would add an entry for traffic offences in the FAQs. To make it easier, I got started on a few points I think are relevant, please feel free to expand/correct/comment everybody.

Can I take advantage of the fixed penalty (FPN) system?
(a) for offences commited before April 2009:
Non-EEA driving licence: no, has to be settled in court
EEA driving licences without counterpart registration: no, has to be settled in court
EEA driving licences with counterpart registration: yes

(b) for offences commited after April 2009:
EEA driving licences: yes, following overhaul of Road Safety Act 2006 and Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 implementing Council Directive No. 91/439/EEC and EC (Recognition of Driving Licences of other Member States) Regulations 2008. See also according note in the form D9.
Non-EEA driving licence: if I read the current revision of RTOA'88 correctly, may take advantage of the FPN scheme if they have registered a counterpart. This is only relevant for the first year, anyway (see below).

How long will my licence be valid?
non-EEA: 1 year after taking residence (i.e. excluding short term visits like holidays), then it must be exchanged or it will be a traffic offence
EEA: until you are 70 years old or for 3 years after becoming resident (whichever is the longer period) and as long as the licence is valid
Generally, a licence holder is allowed to drive anything the foreign licence allows, with one major exception: in no case (even if the foreign licence allows it) may a driver use a vehicle below the legal age in the UK (i.e. 17 years for cars).

How many points will I get, how long will they be on the licence?
see DirectGov website for complete list

What are minor/major traffic offences?
The HO takes a hard stance on certain offences considered reckless: "Drink-driving offences, driving while uninsured or disqualified or driving whilst using a mobile phone are not minor offences" (Booklet AN; page 15). Likewise, dangerous driving, furious driving, aggravated taking of a vehicle and similar offences will not go down well with the caseworkers. Such offences will adversely affect your good character requirement. However, speeding (within reason!), driving with a foreign licence and other offences that are more a harmless oversight than reckless endangerment will not normally be considered major offences. Those will normally be disregarded by HO - except there are too many of them - a large number of minor offences will let HO doubt your good character as well (as it could suggest "a pattern of offending").

Will traffic offences affect my application?
one or two minor offences/FPN: normally not
multiple minor offences: getting trickier, and everything else should be in order
one FPN in the last year: normally not
two FPNs in the last year: wait a year
major unspent offences in the qualifying period: wait until spent
any driving bans: wait until the period of disqualification has ended

What if I go to court over a minor offence / FPN?
If an FPN has been referred to a court due to the non-payment of the fine or if the notice has been challenged by the applicant and subsequently upheld by the court, then this is treated as a conviction by HO (instructions manual 3.2.3). In other words: refusing to play ball over an FPN is a considerable gamble if you plan to apply for BC. However, note that this does not apply to cases of foreign driving licence holders who have to go to court because their cases cannot be handled directly by the police under the FPN scheme.

[makkan00]

Thanks Gyfrinachgar.


Here is food for thought.

A case where Applicant has been involved in an accident and police referred it to the court under 'careless driving offence'.

Applicant pleaded guilty and took points on the license for 'careless driving' and paid the fine on first hearing.


Where does this offence stand?

Due to the nature of the accident, police had to refer it to the court and outcome was points + fine.


Now can this applicant apply for permanent residency and BC?

[Gyfrinachgar]

It is definitely a conviction and will adversely affect both application types. I think that this would fall in the grey area of caseworker's discretion - if everything else is in order, it should not automatically be prohibitive. The central passage relating to this question is: "Caseworkers should normally refuse an individual who has an unspent conviction, however there is discretion to overlook some minor one-off offences. (...) Where the applicant is of good character in all other respects caseworkers should normally be prepared to overlook a single minor unspent conviction resulting in: (...) a relatively small fine or compensation order."

It is anyone's guess what "relative" means here exactly. In such a situation I would definitely try PR, but depending on (a) the details of the conviction/fine, (b) the urgency of naturalisation and (c) the time until conviction becomes spent, I might postpone a costly BC application.

[makkan00]

It is definitely a conviction and will adversely affect both application types. I think that this would fall in the grey area of caseworker's discretion - if everything else is in order, it should not automatically be prohibitive. The central passage relating to this question is: "Caseworkers should normally refuse an individual who has an unspent conviction, however there is discretion to overlook some minor one-off offences. (...) Where the applicant is of good character in all other respects caseworkers should normally be prepared to overlook a single minor unspent conviction resulting in: (...) a relatively small fine or compensation order."

It is anyone's guess what "relative" means here exactly. In such a situation I would definitely try PR, but depending on (a) the details of the conviction/fine, (b) the urgency of naturalisation and (c) the time until conviction becomes spent, I might postpone a costly BC application.

Top Man! Many thanks.

[songo]

Hi every one,

I am new in this forum but have been reading some of the experiences and recommendations and find the very useful.

Maybe you can help me in my case and provide some guidance on if I should b keep waiting or try the BC.

I got the ILR 2 years ago. On March 2011 I got a drink driving sentence and paid a fine at court. I am back in the road as I got my driving license back meaning that the driving ban sentence has been spent but the sentence of the fine will keep unspent.

Drink Driving offenses are a serious offense of what I have read see bellow. It is unlikely my BC application gets approved although the traffic offense has been spent.

3.2.5 Caseworkers should not normally disregard any unspent
conviction that falls into the following categories
irrespective of the severity of the sentence imposed:
a. Offences involving dishonesty (e.g. theft, fraud)
b. Offences involving violence
c. Offences involving unlawful sexual activity
d. Offences involving drugs
e. [b]Offences which would constitute “recklessness” – e.g.
drink-driving[/b], excessive speeding, driving without
tax/insurance or whilst using a mobile phone. (NB
Caseworkers should remember that fixed penalty
notices do not constitute offenses – see 3.2.2.e
above).

Does any body in this forum of any body tried to apply in similar case and been successful?

Does any body know further what is going on with the LAPSO as law may change the rehabilitation period criteria for fines to one year and there is much uncertainty on what UKBA is going to apply.

Truly appreciate a recommendation.

If you make an application under this circumstances is there any risk also on the ILR?

[Gyfrinachgar]

With an unspent court convition for drink-driving, your chances of successfully applying for BC are slim to naught. So far, I have not heard of anyone pulling that off, and I would be very surprised to hear otherwise. As long as you cannot provide a REALLY good explanation on page 10, you will have to wait until the conviction becomes spent, i.e. until March 2016. Discretion is not easily granted for something like drink-driving, and with very good reason. Your IRL will not be affected, though.

Regarding the effects of LASPO 2012, there is an outstanding request under the Freedom of Information Act. Dated 16 August 2012, it has not yet been processed by HO. I would recommend you keep an eye on that - I certainly will. Very interesting request. I doubt that the effects will be retroactive, and I doubt that they change HO's SOPs (at least in the short term), so LASPO 2012 most likely will not help you in any way.

[songo]

Many thanks for your quick answer Gyfrinachgar.

So far that has been my understanding and it has been the way how I have been handling my case in the long term of 5 years.

LAPSO just gives a little light in the tunnel. I will follow the link you provided and await LAPSO commencement and what ever UKBA decides, positive or not to my case. Life goes on.

My family has just got the BC this week so that is a success.

Hope is the last thing one should loose, things may change you never know.

Cheers mate.

Please keep me posted if you have news in the subject

[SONAKSHI]

I have got 3 points on my licence in September 2011 for using mobile phone while driving. I paid the fine of £60 by credit card over the phone and surrendered my licence at a Police Station within 7 days. I received the licence back with a CU80 endorsement. I did not have to go to court. I will be applying for ILR this month at a PEO. Would it affect my ILR and BC.

[SONAKSHI]

Senior members, your view please.Many thanks in advance.

[Gyfrinachgar]

I have got 3 points on my licence in September 2011 for using mobile phone while driving. I paid the fine of £60 by credit card over the phone and surrendered my licence at a Police Station within 7 days. I received the licence back with a CU80 endorsement. I did not have to go to court. I will be applying for ILR this month at a PEO. Would it affect my ILR and BC.

See above: the HO takes a hard stance on certain offences considered reckless: "Drink-driving offences, driving while uninsured or disqualified or driving whilst using a mobile phone are not minor offences" (Booklet AN; page 15). You will be entering the realm of caseworkers discretion - that cannot be reliably predicted. Since this seems to be an isolated FPN, chances are probably in your favour, but it is still a gamble.

P.S.: Please keep your questions in a single topic.

[bluebird2011]

Sonakshi

Provided you paid the fine & surrendered the licence in time and did not challenge the FPN in court; you are all safe. There is no gamble involved and you'll get your ILR without any problem.

I was in a similar suituation as I had CU80 offence but paid my fine and surrendered my licence in time and got my ILR 6 months ago without any problem.

You won't even have any problem in your BC application. I have an email confirmation from UKBA that this offence will only be treated as FPN as long as not referred in court.

[kasturi75]

In this case, does Sonakshi need to declare the offence on ILR or/and BC application?

[John50]

Hi Dear all,
I am planing to submit my application for British nationality after having ILR visa for more than 12-months.
I got 6 points on my provisional Licence for driving uninsured car against third party,due to lack of information, although I was driving under the supervision of a qualified driver. Police officer gave me conditional offer of Fixed Penalty Notice, for which I paid the relevant fine in due time.
Therefore, I am confused about it as some people say that one Fixed Penalty notice will not affect my application, while some people say it would affect my application as it is serious offence in spite of the fact that it is being issued by Police officer and I did not go to court in this regard.
So, can any one pls guide me in this regards.

Regards,