Theresa may is merciless

[UKBA HUNTER]

This is a self imposed suicidal practise and suicide always make responsible itself the individual not the public or other authorities. Go and check the uk streets where illegals/failed asylum seekers living without roof and food in streets since many years, does this mean that they should be granted settlement too.
Nigeria is not a war zone country like Iraq and Afghanistan so he can still there in safe area. If he not eat then if die then he himself responsible not uk as they already spent much on him. He should be returned in Nigeria airline with Nigerian charity worker, Nigerian doctors.

[MPH80]

I think Obie was just generalizing, do not take it personally MPH80, your contributions are appreciated and yes, we all have our opinions, that is exactly what they are, mere opinions. However, sometimes, it gets very hard to weigh up or side with the Home Office when they waste tens if not hundreds of millions of pounds on ridiculous exercises when the money would be much better spent on welfare etc...

I don't disagree about waste - but the moment wide brushes like 'xenophobe', 'dearly beloved' or 'bleeding heart liberal' etc are introduced into a discussion - then all rational discussion goes out the window.

This debate appears to be coming down to a simple two sided discussion:

Side 1: The man is at death's door - it's our duty as human beings to release him so he can survive

Side 2: The man may be at death's door - but it's his choice and within the bounds of the law he has to be held or returned.

Does that summarise it?

[Obie]

The other side of the equation is that, there are rules and laws, and international treaties that the UK has signed up to. They ought to be held to account if they fail to adhere to it. In this case, I can think of few of their own rules that they have broken,, nevermind their international treaties and obligations.

I dont see the Dutch Government santioning a plane to transport 1 individual, dont see them driving buses in street, dont see them going to train stations and stopping Dutch. ethnic minorities and asking for ID whiles living caucasian Dutch to go unquestioned.

Holland has more ethnic minority per population size than UK. Holland is more densley populated than UK. Holland are not going on about EU, as the UK.

I know there are some problems in all these nations, it is the degree of the problem that I was stating.

In that regards the problem is more profound in the UK. Denmark is another I would considered to be in the same category as UK, but things seem to be improving there, whiles deteriorating in ths UK, unfortunately.

One has to be candid about these things. Ler there be a positive debate about migrant in the UK. At present, there are only negative views and perception. The truth is hidden.

Only the Guardian and to some extent the independent seem to be undertaking a structured debate.

[Seneca]

I don't disagree about waste - but the moment wide brushes like 'xenophobe', 'dearly beloved' or 'bleeding heart liberal' etc are introduced into a discussion - then all rational discussion goes out the window.

This debate appears to be coming down to a simple two sided discussion:

Side 1: The man is at death's door - it's our duty as human beings to release him so he can survive

Side 2: The man may be at death's door - but it's his choice and within the bounds of the law he has to be held or returned.

Does that summarise it?

Yes it our duty as humankind to show kindness and compassionate to our fellows in distress.

The person in question have mental problem and is in fear of his life. We should be concerned at this moment or how to help improve his mental and physical condition instead of to deport him asap do matter the cost or whether he will live or die.

They can look at his application on compassionate ground for now and look at his case again in couples of years time. Both him and HO will be in better place to make better decision when his mental and physical condition has improved.

[ouflak1]

Both him and HO will be in better place to make better decision when his mental and physical condition has improved.

And if that's never? Permanent residence? Citizenship?

[MPH80]

So it sounds to me like the 'mid-ground' here is:

Section him - treat him in a secure unit.

He'll get the treatment he needs and he's still held in detention as per current rules.

M.

[UKBA HUNTER]

Yes it our duty as humankind to show kindness and compassionate to our fellows in distress.

why not first we use such kindness and compassionate for those ones who living in streets without food and roof since many years.

The person in question have mental problem and is in fear of his life. We should be concerned at this moment or how to help improve his mental and physical condition instead of to deport him asap do matter the cost or whether he will live or die.

Why, does in Nigeria now all the hospitals/community centers/charity run accommodations finished? why here, why not there?

[Believe2013]

I think Obie was just generalizing, do not take it personally MPH80, your contributions are appreciated and yes, we all have our opinions, that is exactly what they are, mere opinions. However, sometimes, it gets very hard to weigh up or side with the Home Office when they waste tens if not hundreds of millions of pounds on ridiculous exercises when the money would be much better spent on welfare etc...

I don't disagree about waste - but the moment wide brushes like 'xenophobe', 'dearly beloved' or 'bleeding heart liberal' etc are introduced into a discussion - then all rational discussion goes out the window.

This debate appears to be coming down to a simple two sided discussion:

Side 1: The man is at death's door - it's our duty as human beings to release him so he can survive

Side 2: The man may be at death's door - but it's his choice and within the bounds of the law he has to be held or returned.

Does that summarise it?

Well all the reports I have read are saying he is mentally ill and very distressed so how can he make a choice?

ps I don't regard you as a covert dearly beloved or xenophobic at all. I think you have put out your arguments very eloquently.

[Seneca]

And if that's never? Permanent residence? Citizenship?

His condition is bound to improve or he will die soon. Once he better both parties can take it from there.

[Seneca]

why not first we use such kindness and compassionate for those ones who living in streets without food and roof since many years.

Why, does in Nigeria now all the hospitals/community centers/charity run accommodations finished? why here, why not there?

On your first points. They are many charities doing exactly that. The two issue are not mutually exclusive we can do both if there is will.

On second points let us just do what we can to help the poor fellow. Not worried too much what Nigeria can or can't do.

[Seneca]

So it sounds to me like the 'mid-ground' here is:

Section him - treat him in a secure unit.

He'll get the treatment he needs and he's still held in detention as per current rules.

M.

Yes i agree he should section for now, But HO have also option to grants him short stay under compassionate ground if they so wish instead of putting back into detention. Which might trigger similar problems again.

[Wanderer]

UK has a history of this - google Bobby Sands, UK gov let him starve himself to death rather than give in to his demands.

And he was a British Citizen...

[UKBA HUNTER]

On your first points. They are many charities doing exactly that. The two issue are not mutually exclusive we can do both if there is will.

Whatever it is in anybody's own language but in reality it is a cowardly intended self imposed suicidal practice through starvation which result should fall on the shoulder of the person itself.

On second points let us just do what we can to help the poor fellow.

Read the MPH80 ideas of help again.

Not worried too much what Nigeria can or can't do.

I/we are not worried about Nigeria but we are worried about the wastage of tax payer money.

[Seneca]

Whatever it is in anybody's own language but in reality it is a cowardly intended self imposed suicidal practice through starvation which result should fall on the shoulder of the person itself.

Read the MPH80 ideas of help again.

I/we are not worried about Nigeria but we are worried about the wastage of tax payer money.

1.I don't think it is coward, Try it. it require immense determination. There are easy way to commit suicide.

2.I have seen MP80 post i am also offer other alternative.

3 The UK government might actually save money helping the guy instead of detain him indefinitely or send him without arranging things properly with Nigeria Government.

[ouflak1]

Not worried too much what Nigeria can or can't do.

*Nigeria* should be worried about what it can or can't do. This their citizen. If they want to demonstrate any dignity whatsoever, as well as demonstrate any ability to take care of their citizenry, and if they don't want to appear to support their own citizens scampering off and claiming asylum in any country they can manage to get into, then they will take him back at their soonest opportunity. In fact they should be insisting that he be returned and be perfectly willing to flip the bill themselves.

If were them, I'd consider this fiasco rather humiliating and a slap on my international standing.

[UKBA HUNTER]

1.I don't think it is coward, Try it. it require immense determination. There are easy way to commit suicide.

2.I have seen MP80 post i am also offer other alternative.

3 The UK government might actually save money helping the guy instead of detain him indefinitely or send him without arranging things properly with Nigeria Government.

1. It is a coward practice but slow paced/motion suicide to get sympathy with the hope to succeed before die.
2. All these arrangement must be done within Nigeria with Nigerian funds with the hands of Nigerian authorities.
3. Nigerian government must be sued for what they did and must pay back all those funds incurring on this money/time wasting mission.

[Seneca]

*Nigeria* should be worried about what it can or can't do. This their citizen. If they want to demonstrate any dignity whatsoever, as well as demonstrate any ability to take care of their citizenry, and if they don't want to appear to support their own citizens scampering off and claiming asylum in any country they can manage to get into, then they will take him back at their soonest opportunity. In fact they should be insisting that he be returned and be perfectly willing to flip the bill themselves.

If were them, I'd consider this fiasco rather humiliating and a slap on my international standing.

UK government deport people all the time to Nigeria. I think they rush this decision and the fact that the guy was at death door. I don't think if things were arranged properly they would have refuse to accept their own. But that is just my opinion.

[Obie]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... heresa-may

The above article incooperate the system in the UK.

It show Muaza's health problem and mental health condition were as a result of his prologed detention.

If Muaza dies, it will be very easy to ascertain on his hands his blood lies.

[MPH80]

Obie - I think the answer to 'where the blood lies' is with the judges who considered him to have sufficient mental capacity to decide whether or not he should be in a secure unit.

They are allowing him to make his own choice to die.

Note: I'm not saying the government is blameless - but they had to secure his travel documents and they kept him in detention to do that. They also showed willing at the hearings to move him to a secure unit so he could get treatment. Short of releasing him - it's hard to see what else they could have done.

[Seneca]

1. It is a coward practice but slow paced/motion suicide to get sympathy with the hope to succeed before die.
2. All these arrangement must be done within Nigeria with Nigerian funds with the hands of Nigerian authorities.
3. Nigerian government must be sued for what they did and must pay back all those funds incurring on this money/time wasting mission.

Agreed that is looking for sympathy, empathy and understanding.

Is it so odds to seek sympathy, empathy and understand when you down and out from others who are in position to help you?

I don't agreed that he is coward for going on strike, Hunger strike is the last resort used by many people like Gandhi and others to make last stand and to engage attention of authorities when all other avenue has been closed.

He has claimed his two relative have been killed by Boko Haram. He went to school with many of them and they can easily find him anywhere in Nigeria. So for him there is clear and real danger to his life. It is like if you cross Mafia and if they really want to find you and kill you, they will. He might have genuine case.

Suing will not help, talking will. If British Government really want to proceed with removal process, at least they should ask for guarantees that 1)he will be protected from Boko Haram and 2) They will offer him medical Help.
They did that to Abu Hamza and many others potential dangerous people. Why not for innocent person in fear of life and in need of medical help. But in case stop everything until he is better.

[Obie]

Boko haram is a terrorist organisation. By it feautures you cannot negotiate with them, neither can you sign an accord. They are not confined to a particular geographical boundry. They can, and have the capacity to strike any location in Nigeria.
The Nigerian Government cannot protect itself from this organisation. It remains to be seen how Muaza can indeed be protected.

I believe there is enough of talking, people, especially British Citizens and Commmon Wealth national should lobby their MP, to impose pressure to bear on the government to release Mr Muaza into an Hospital facility.

In his condition, there is no prospect of him absconding or causing harm to the public, so detention is redundant and otiose in his case.

[MPH80]

But I'm going to keep making this point - the government has offered to move him to a hospital facility - admittedly a secure one - but given his mental state that's probably where he needs to be!

It is the fact that no one is sectioning him or granting a court order to allow it that's the problem!

If your brother/sister was so paranoid to believe that you were putting poison in their food would you want them in a secure mental unit or in a hospital from which they could discharge themselves at any point?

[UKBA HUNTER]

1. It is a coward practice but slow paced/motion suicide to get sympathy with the hope to succeed before die.
2. All these arrangement must be done within Nigeria with Nigerian funds with the hands of Nigerian authorities.
3. Nigerian government must be sued for what they did and must pay back all those funds incurring on this money/time wasting mission.

Agreed that is looking for sympathy, empathy and understanding.

Is it so odds to seek sympathy, empathy and understand when you down and out from others who are in position to help you?

I don't agreed that he is coward for going on strike, Hunger strike is the last resort used by many people like Gandhi and others to make last stand and to engage attention of authorities when all other avenue has been closed.

He has claimed his two relative have been killed by Boko Haram. He went to school with many of them and they can easily find him anywhere in Nigeria. So for him there is clear and real danger to his life. It is like if you cross Mafia and if they really want to find you and kill you, they will. He might have genuine case.

Suing will not help, talking will. If British Government really want to proceed with removal process, at least they should ask for guarantees that 1)he will be protected from Boko Haram and 2) They will offer him medical Help.
They did that to Abu Hamza and many others potential dangerous people. Why not for innocent person in fear of life and in need of medical help. But in case stop everything until he is better.

Look there are many countries in Africa and where he can legally enter and put this claim but why only England. And if you search on internet then many volunteers during the contention between Ireland and england dead in hunger strike and its not new method and should be ignored systematically. In my previous posts i have copied pasted few links not all because cannot entirely write and write the whole page which even suggest to not to believe such heinous act of starvation. I wish the clock reverse back to 17th or 16th century and this asylum system which people abusing is being regularized and then again clock set normal.

[Seneca]

Look there are many countries in Africa and where he can legally enter and put this claim but why only England. And if you search on internet then many volunteers during the contention between Ireland and england dead in hunger strike and its not new method and should be ignored systematically. In my previous posts i have copied pasted few links not all because cannot entirely write and write the whole page which even suggest to not to believe such heinous act of starvation. I wish the clock reverse back to 17th or 16th century and this asylum system which people abusing is being regularized and then again clock set normal.

How was it back then and What is normal for you?

[UKBA HUNTER]

Look there are many countries in Africa and where he can legally enter and put this claim but why only England. And if you search on internet then many volunteers during the contention between Ireland and england dead in hunger strike and its not new method and should be ignored systematically. In my previous posts i have copied pasted few links not all because cannot entirely write and write the whole page which even suggest to not to believe such heinous act of starvation. I wish the clock reverse back to 17th or 16th century and this asylum system which people abusing is being regularized and then again clock set normal.

How was it back then and What is normal for you?

Read the UK history as how their government system evolved which now have been abusing rapidly with such so called dramas that encourage others as well means inviting more hurdles even for peaceful inhabitants.