Appeal allowed but HO appeal against the decison.

[cyber_warez]

Hello everyone today i want to share about my case..i am very surprised to received HO appeal against FTT judge decision because it's out of deadline to challenge.

Appeal Hearing Date: 20 Jan 2014
Appeal allowed (Determination promulgated) Date: 30 Jan 2014
we received allowed determination on: 3 Feb 2014
My solicitor received Notification letter from HO on 24 April 2014 that they are going to appeal against FTT judge decision.

MY QUESTION:

Does Home Office have right to appeal against FTT judge decision when it comes to crossed deadline? when Home Office challenge deadline was expired. My solicitor make a phone call on 10 March 2014 to the Tribunal they said HO hasn't appeal against FTT judge decision. we are process your appeal to BHC Soon. Again my solicitor make a phone on 21 April 2014 to tribunal they said your client allowed determination & relevant docs were forwarded to BHC. They will contact you soon. On 24 April 2014 my solicitor received notification letter from HO they are going to appeal against FTT judge decision. we are so surprised to received this letter because it's out of deadline to challenge. I am very stress on Ho appeal. what will be my further process ?? Is there anyone who have same situation like me...Please share your views on my case. Thank you

[KingNothing]

That's pretty late! Court may refuse their application unless upon submission of Grounds of Appeal, they provide genuine reason for delay. Do not worry. Wait for the result of their application. Then if it was granted, speak to your solicitor, barrister. If you have a solid case, you will win UTT easily...

Update on my case... No News since refusal of Permission to UTT on 4/3/2014 onwards yet. Hearing 28 Jan, Appeal Allowed 6 Feb, Challenged 17 Feb, challenge refused 4 March... Shall I still wait??

[Alexy1]

I am also on the same page with u.My appeal was allowed in January and HO appealed against the decision in February which was refused by FTT. Since then, I've not heard anything from them . The most annoying thing is I waited for more than one year before my application was initially refused. Why is HO
Punishing immigrants like this?

[Mrs.P]

Hello everyone,

Just updating, I received the notice that home office has been granted permission to appeal to the upper tribunal. My questions are;
1. what happens if I don't reply to this notice ( as I have applied for 10 years ILR already and done biometrics)
2. Can I withdraw from this appeal ( I won my case on evidential flexibility Rodriguez which was overturned at Court of Appeal, I will lose if I go to the UT), and
3. If go for the hearing, can I just say to the judge that I have been here for 10 years already, do I still have to present my case regarding the Tier 1 refusal.

Thanks so much for any help/ advice, I really appreciate this.

[Alexy1]

Hello Mrs P,
You will win if you go to upper tribunal as you have lived legally for continuous 10 years in UK. Just reply the letter and include the additional evidence of yr 10 years stay . You have a strong case , the only problem is your application
Which HO will invalidate but you can still argue this with them if they made out of time application for permission.
Pls. can you shed more light on the following:
1)Is it FTT or UT that granted the HO permission to appeal to UT?

2)Did the HO made out of time application for the permission?

3) How long I've you been waiting after your allowed before you received this letter?
This is just a new trick being used by HO but you have a win-win situation here . Please , I will appreciate if you can respond to the above 3 questions .
Thanks

[Alexy1]

Hello Mrs P,
You will win if you go to upper tribunal as you have lived legally for continuous 10 years in UK. Just reply the letter and include the additional evidence of yr 10 years stay . You have a strong case , the only problem is your application
Which HO will invalidate but you can still argue this with them if they made out of time application for permission.
Pls. can you shed more light on the following:
1)Is it FTT or UT that granted the HO permission to appeal to UT?

2)Did the HO made out of time application for the permission?

3) How long I've you been waiting after your allowed appeal before you received this letter?
This is just a new trick being used by HO but you have a win-win situation here . Please , I will appreciate if you can respond to the above 3 questions .
Thanks

[cyber_warez]

@kingNothing..Thank you for reply. My solicitor has written grounds of objection letter because it was done out of time. Hoping for positive result.

That's pretty late! Court may refuse their application unless upon submission of Grounds of Appeal, they provide genuine reason for delay. Do not worry. Wait for the result of their application. Then if it was granted, speak to your solicitor, barrister. If you have a solid case, you will win UTT easily...

Update on my case... No News since refusal of Permission to UTT on 4/3/2014 onwards yet. Hearing 28 Jan, Appeal Allowed 6 Feb, Challenged 17 Feb, challenge refused 4 March... Shall I still wait??

[Mrs.P]

Hello Mrs P,
You will win if you go to upper tribunal as you have lived legally for continuous 10 years in UK. Just reply the letter and include the additional evidence of yr 10 years stay . You have a strong case , the only problem is your application
Which HO will invalidate but you can still argue this with them if they made out of time application for permission.
Pls. can you shed more light on the following:
1)Is it FTT or UT that granted the HO permission to appeal to UT?

2)Did the HO made out of time application for the permission?

3) How long I've you been waiting after your allowed appeal before you received this letter?
This is just a new trick being used by HO but you have a win-win situation here . Please , I will appreciate if you can respond to the above 3 questions .
Thanks

Hi Alexy1,

Thanks very much for your advice, that's basically what my solicitor told me today. To answer your questions;
1. FTT granted permission but it was a different judge, not the one who heard my appeal.
2. It was in time, appeal allowed 4th March, applied for permission 12th March.
3. Hearing was on 8th January, letter received 6th March, HO granted permission to go to UT 24th April.

[Shah05]

I have received a date, my hearing will held in 4th week of may. I hope my solicitor can make it up.

[sintiaatm]

@shah05 hope the best for you. I received the letter too. My hearing is on 30th may.

[Shah05]

Following week after mine. Yes hoping for the best for me and also for u. Will send u a pm soon.

[hayya786]

Hey guys I won my appeal again in upper tribunal as home office itself said they dun knw why my case has been challenged.so the
judge dismissed the case in my favour. Alhumdulilah.

[cyber_warez]

Dear all, plz help me answer this question..specially KingNothing bro.

1.Appeal Hearing Date: 20 Jan 2014
2.Appeal allowed (Determination promulgated) Date: 30 Jan 2014
3.we received allowed determination on: 3 Feb 2014
4.My solicitor received Notification letter from HO on 24 April 2014 that they are going to appeal against FTT judge decision.
5. on 16 May we got letter from Tribunal that FTT judge refused HO application.

Q: Now what will be my further process in my case ??

[Shah05]

@cyber warez, you have couple of options, mean while you can file the application in to court of appeal this stage will take roughly 3 to 4 months time and by that time you can think about the options you might want to consider.

[KingNothing]

Home Office can now apply from Upper Tribunal Directly for a permission to appeal. They need to Submit a new Ground of Appeal. In my case, FTT told Home Office, they can lodge a new appeal only if they have new points raised apart from subject of determination.

As in FTT all the issues being discussed are about the points that you have not already got any grade for, it is not likely that they be successful to go to UT or being granted to lodge any appeal further.

One of these scenarios might happen.

1- They find some other Errors in law and apply UT directly and get permission and in this case you will hear about their application in logically 1 month more or less. This scenario is less likely going to happen.

2- They apply from UT and their application get refused or Home Office later on withdraw their appeal. This case seems weird but believe me it has happened to some applicants when they follow up the case from MP.

3- What usually happens is that you will not hear from Home Office for a long period. Around 12 weeks and in some scenarios even up to 22 weeks. They they will either send you Biometrics Permit and Documents or they may request some new documents even if you have submitted in FTT, with new dates. Usually if they ask for documents, everything else is solved and all missing is the updated document and once you submit you will get your biometrics soon.

4- If after 12 weeks and logically after 18-22 weeks you did not hear from Home Office, you may require to ask your Local MP to contact Home Office. They will ask Home Office to speed of the process of your application and usually you will hear back from Home Office within one month.

When case is returned to Home Office, it is looked as a Fresh Case. It is up to your luck how speedy your case being dealt. We have people who get their Biometric in two weeks after determination and people who has been waiting for long.

In my case there is no news but I do not bother really and let Home Office process the documents in their own way.

Hope I was helpful...

[cyber_warez]

Thank you so much for reply @ kingNothing.I want to know about your case? what is your refusal reason given by FTT judge.when HO tries to register case in the UT.
In my case FTT judge said HO about out of appeal and criticised home office staffs.

Home Office can now apply from Upper Tribunal Directly for a permission to appeal. They need to Submit a new Ground of Appeal. In my case, FTT told Home Office, they can lodge a new appeal only if they have new points raised apart from subject of determination.

As in FTT all the issues being discussed are about the points that you have not already got any grade for, it is not likely that they be successful to go to UT or being granted to lodge any appeal further.

One of these scenarios might happen.

1- They find some other Errors in law and apply UT directly and get permission and in this case you will hear about their application in logically 1 month more or less. This scenario is less likely going to happen.

2- They apply from UT and their application get refused or Home Office later on withdraw their appeal. This case seems weird but believe me it has happened to some applicants when they follow up the case from MP.

3- What usually happens is that you will not hear from Home Office for a long period. Around 12 weeks and in some scenarios even up to 22 weeks. They they will either send you Biometrics Permit and Documents or they may request some new documents even if you have submitted in FTT, with new dates. Usually if they ask for documents, everything else is solved and all missing is the updated document and once you submit you will get your biometrics soon.

4- If after 12 weeks and logically after 18-22 weeks you did not hear from Home Office, you may require to ask your Local MP to contact Home Office. They will ask Home Office to speed of the process of your application and usually you will hear back from Home Office within one month.

When case is returned to Home Office, it is looked as a Fresh Case. It is up to your luck how speedy your case being dealt. We have people who get their Biometric in two weeks after determination and people who has been waiting for long.

In my case there is no news but I do not bother really and let Home Office process the documents in their own way.

Hope I was helpful...

[KingNothing]

A recap on this thread will show the context of determination letter in words that I had written previously. Basically they refused my application on 3 points:

1- Third party letter was not signed by me
2- Third party bank letter does not include his phone number
3- The letter from legal representative is not present

In FTT court we discussed as:

1- Third party letter was not signed by me. We approved but it was simply a letter with a) wrong format b) missing information so Home Office had to consider 3 things 1- Evidential Flexibility which was valid at the time of decision 2 - Rodriguez Case 3 - Immigration Rule section 245AA . Home Office must had written to us and ask for missing information or letter in right format.

2- It is not necessary. It is a part of the policy but not a part of Immigration Rules. It is also obtainable from other parts of application form.

3- The Legal representative was United States notary service. They had a letter which was a form where they filled in the blanks concerning that they have seen third party signing the letter in their presence and they have approved it. The letter has not been typed in because of the policy of notary services in United States. It is not even a letter in wrong format because it includes all points in the policy but even if it was in wrong format, Home Office had to communicate for it based on discussion in 1.


The court approved all three points raised by us and Home Office did not defend anything as they said it is neglect by Case Worker and requested to remit the case to Home Office. Judge allowed the appeal accepting all our discussion.

Then after 11 days Home Office challenged the decision because of Err in law. I did not ask for ground of Appeal but as I saw the decision letter, I suppose they were questioning Rodriguez.

FTT refused HO application saying that all points are based on Immigration Law and decision of the first Judge was lawful. Even though HO applied 6 days late but they considered the application in lawful time frame as considering delays for post. Last update was March 4th and after that no news so far. FTT says Home Office has not lodged any direct appeal to UT and time frame has ended. However, I am not chasing up Home Office and allow them do their work and get the job done on the normal processing speed.

[sintiaatm]

@shah05 i think you have hearing today. good luck

[Shah05]

Actually I had my hearing on 20th but they haven't took the decision. So judge said he will send in written. So waiting. I will update my case as soon as I will receive anything. Also if you have any question feel free to ask.

[Mrs.P]

Hi guys,

Just updating my hearing was at the UT today, it didn't go well, the Judge said she will still have to consider Rodriguez as it is the authority on PBS cases. I told her about my 10 years LR, she said it is up to the HO to decide my application and reserved her decision. Please help me with the following questions;

1. If my appeal is dismissed and I can't get permission to appeal any further, how long will I have to leave the country.
2. My passport has expired and is with the HO, can I get travel documents and travel to my country, while a decision on my 10 years LR is still pending.

I appreciate any suggestions, the hearing today has left me more confused. Many thanks.

[Rockefeller]

Hi Mrs P
I'm sorry to hear you don't think the appeal went well. However, you may be surprised the decision can still go either way because the judge may consider your long residency and other issues although she did not give any indication towards that in her answer.
However, I'm a little bit more upbeat for you as you have already completed 10years lawful stay and have put in an application so I think you should be more hopeful as that application would not necessarily be considered in line with your appeal.
To answer your specific questions
1) I think you would have to leave the country within 28days of receiving the decision if you decide not to seek appeal to the court of court of appeal. However, I think this is irrelevant in your case given you have a valid pending application and I think you're still on 3C leave to remain.
2) Please do not travel outside the UK as that invalidates your application as I understand it. Seek legal advice if you have to. As concerning whether you can obtain a new passport. This is a decision for your home country embassy or high commission in UK. Some embassies may issue a new passport without you providing the outdated one depending on your reasons while others may not.
Wish you best of luck

Hi guys,

Just updating my hearing was at the UT today, it didn't go well, the Judge said she will still have to consider Rodriguez as it is the authority on PBS cases. I told her about my 10 years LR, she said it is up to the HO to decide my application and reserved her decision. Please help me with the following questions;

1. If my appeal is dismissed and I can't get permission to appeal any further, how long will I have to leave the country.
2. My passport has expired and is with the HO, can I get travel documents and travel to my country, while a decision on my 10 years LR is still pending.

I appreciate any suggestions, the hearing today has left me more confused. Many thanks.

[Mrs.P]

Thanks very much for your reply, My leave will not be extended by 3c/3d as my application for LR was out of time, and my embassy has refused to give me a new passport, I am in a horrible situation as I don't want to leave the country before my LR application is decided.

[sintiaatm]

@sad1 and @kingNothing any news about your case? Please update.

[sad.1]

hi i have called them and finally got some helping person found there.......she actually sent the email to the case worker and they replied her back by saying they will get back with in 21 days so i m hoping ill b getting it by the end of this month.

[nasirkhan]

hi i have called them and finally got some helping person found there.......she actually sent the email to the case worker and they replied her back by saying they will get back with in 21 days so i m hoping ill b getting it by the end of this month.

Would you not be sad anymore ?