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ca.funke
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Location: Zürich, CH (Schengen)
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 Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| mEEA wrote: | | ...this is interesting... |
| Telegraph wrote: | Theresa May, the Home Secretary, on Thursday joined Germany, France, Austria, Holland, Belgium and Sweden (all in Schengen) to demand EU intervention to plug a hole that is allowing illegal immigration via Greece into the rest of Europe.
A joint paper agreed by the seven countries urges Greece to "live up to its responsibilities" and "keep its house in order" by securing the Greek border with Turkey, which is also the frontier of the EU's free movement Schengen zone. (the 6 mentioned countries demand this because they are Schengen-countries, and thus affected. The UK is not Schengen, thus not affected, and should -thus- shut up.)
"We believe our combined efforts will help ensure that the EU is taking practical steps to combat illegal immigration, and help reduce the numbers travelling unlawfully to the UK," said a British diplomat. (What does Britain have to do with this? They´re not part of Schengen, and thus still guarding their border independently. If their own checks don´t seem to work, how can increased checks between Turkey and Greece help Britain?)
Passport-free travel within Europe, outside Britain and Ireland, is regarded as a major achievement but what applies to European travellers also applies to illegal immigrants allowing them entry to any EU country without showing identity papers. (Plain wrong. "any EU country" has to be replaced with "any Schengen-country", thus showing that this is a Schengen problem, not an EU-problem as such, and in specific not a UK-problem.)
British officials have identified evidence that the loophole has led to a sharp increase in attempted asylum shopping and the abuse of sham marriages as Pakistani and Afghan illegal immigrants take advantage of the EU's open borders policy to head to Britain from Greece. (In absence of Schengen in Britain, these "officials" would just have to outline how anyone can "take advantage of the EU's open borders policy" in order to get to Britain...) |
The "loophole" they describe is not a "loophole" the UK could suffer from, and the Telegraph is a mouthpiece of the Tories, describing everything as if it was the EU´s fault, even when it´s not.
Quite unbelievable...
Last edited by ca.funke on Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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docteurbenway
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mEEA
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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ca.funke, you had a nice analysis!
I think that people in HO misrepresent information the same way Telegraph does. I was checking the profile of HO secretary (Theresa May) on wikipedia and found the following:
... At the Conservative Party Conference on 4 October 2011, while arguing that the Human Rights Act needed to be amended, May gave the example of a foreign national who the courts deemed was allowed to remain in the UK, "because - and I am not making this up - he had a pet cat". In response, the Royal Courts of Justice issued a statement, denying that this was the reason for the tribunal's decision in that case, and instead stated that the real reason was that he was in a genuine relationship with a British partner, and owning a pet cat was simply one of many pieces of evidence given to show that the relationship was "genuine". The Home Office had failed to apply its own rules for dealing with unmarried partners of people settled in the UK. The Justice Secretary, Ken Clarke, subsequently called May's comments "laughable and childlike..."
The source is here. |
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docteurbenway
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ca.funke
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docteurbenway
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| mEEA wrote: | ca.funke, you had a nice analysis!
I think that people in HO misrepresent information the same way Telegraph does.
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The only difference between the two is that if the Telegraph misrepresent information, you stop reading it and throw the paper in the garbage bin, but if the HO and Theresa May misrepresents information and passes laws according to this false interpretation the results are catastrophic.
By misinterpreting EU laws the HO is directly threatening the freedom, dignity and in some cases the livelihood of millions of people. |
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mEEA
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Take a look here . I don't mean to prove that HO is bad.  |
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docteurbenway
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| mEEA wrote: | | Take a look here . I don't mean to prove that HO is bad. |
Two quotes:
"The act enshrines the European Convention on Human Rights into UK law.
But Theresa May told the Sunday Telegraph she "personally" would like to see it go because of the problems it caused for the Home Office."
Human rights organisation Liberty did not welcome the government's stance.
Director Shami Chakrabarti said: "Modern Conservatives should think again about human rights values that were truly Churchill's legacy.
"Only a pretty 'nasty party' would promote human rights in the Middle East whilst scrapping them at home."
The same way she would personally like Directive 2004/38/EC go. |
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mEEA
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| docteurbenway wrote: | | ... The same way she would personally like Directive 2004/38/EC go. |
Do you think that HO is so powerful? I think they have done bad enough to loose support. Look at this and this. The issues that they might bring once confronting EC should be of difference nature. I have seen many cases in this forum where economic situation of the UK has been put forward to rationalize a rejection. I think reasons like this would be pushed ahead to reason any future decision for example to set quotas for Romanians/Bulgarians or the like. |
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EUsmileWEallsmile
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Jambo wrote: | | docteurbenway wrote: |
British officials apply stricter requirements and insist on visa applications because they are not convinced resident cards from other EU countries are secure. |
I don't think this is actually the UKBA argument.
However, made me smile considering the HO can issue RC on a piece of paper. Comparing to the Italian or French ID card (which looks as if it was by a school boy in his garage), they seem like Fort Knox to me. |
I wonder is the lack of security concern anything to do with cards being in a nasty foreign language. |
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Directive/2004/38/EC
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| EUsmileWEallsmile wrote: | | I wonder is the lack of security concern anything to do with cards being in a nasty foreign language. |
Well spotted!
_________________
Directive 2004/38/EC lays out free movement rules for EU citizens and their non-EU family members
See blog |
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docteurbenway
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:44 am Post subject: |
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The Home Office said: “We disagree with the commission’s opinion, which is not binding, and we will appeal. As the home secretary has said . . . we will not tolerate abuse of the free movement directive.”
It has been more than 8 years since it came out and more than 6 years since they were supposed to transpose the Directive and i am sure they have read it enough times to know what it says. Now May and HO are acting surprised as if it just came out today.
If they had concerns about possible abuse of the Directive they should have given solutions or proposed amendments way back in the day.
Regarding security concerns over EU cards, most Schengen states are now issuing biometric cards with fingerprints on them, for example Germany now only issues biometric ones with English descriptions see:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Aufenthaltskarte.JPG
So that argument is no longer valid.
The bottom line is they know their game is up and just trying to put a political spin on things to cover their bad policies. From all their rhetoric you feel like it is the BNP or the UKIP who are in power in the UK.
Last edited by docteurbenway on Thu May 03, 2012 6:45 am; edited 5 times in total |
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docteurbenway
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:07 am Post subject: |
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Apparently the article that was posted in the Financial Times(and that i posted on this forum) is now quoted by other media sources as highly credible, see here:
http://www.thetrumpet.com/9356.8202.0.0/britain/eu-to-sue-britain-over-immigration-law
Quote:
"The other issue relates to the Commission wanting Britain to allow family members of EU citizens to be able to apply for UK residency. As the Financial Times explains it, “This would entitle, for instance, an Afghan national in London to apply for residence in Britain on the basis of their Italian brother living in Rome.”
The fact that the EU is able to boss Britain around on this, with Britain’s only response being to appeal, shows how much power Britain has given up to Europe." |
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mEEA
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| docteurbenway wrote: | | ... The fact that the EU is able to boss Britain around on this, with Britain’s only response being to appeal, shows how much power Britain has given up to Europe.... |
If UK is in EU then it needs to follow the rules as long as they are in place. It is as simple as it is. A union by definition has no individual oriented goal, but tries to make every member satisfied. This defines an equilibrium, meaning UK is able to suggest changes in the laws in its own way and insist on them. But this does not give them right to violate laws as long as they are in place. |
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docteurbenway
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mEEA
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Hello docteurbenway,
why don't you use the url possibility of this website? it is very neat.
For example you could write: Read this news about UKBA.
Rgds, meea |
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EUsmileWEallsmile
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Directive/2004/38/EC
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Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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I do not see anything about the EC action on this page. Or am I overlooking something?
_________________
Directive 2004/38/EC lays out free movement rules for EU citizens and their non-EU family members
See blog |
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vinny
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| EUsmileWEallsmile wrote: | | (or rather not to say) |
_________________
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. |
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docteurbenway
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 10:27 am Post subject: |
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I know i have asked this before, but here i go again:
1.Is there a chance that the UK would listen to the EC and fix the mess by 26 of June?
2.If not and they do put up a fight till the bitter end, how long are you predicting that is going to take?
Thanks |
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