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tom_tom_tom
Junior Member
Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 26
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 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:20 pm Post subject: EEA Family Permit - Marriage of Convenience |
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Hello
I have a few questions about an EEA family permit. I am going to marry my fiancé in early January (she is Japanese and I am Irish) in Japan ( I currently live and work in the UK). Very soon after this (hopefully we can get it all sorted when I am in Japan next week) she plans to apply for an EEA family permit as my spouse. When we get married in January we are not having any wedding party/reception as we cannot afford this at the moment. We are going to wait until late 2012.
We have been in a relationship for 14 months. During this time she has spent about 6 months in the UK on various trips and I have been to Japan twice on short visits.
I am concerned out relationship is not long enough and may been seen as a marriage of convenience? Can anyone offer any help?
With the application we plan to include information like email logs, plane tickets where we recently travelled to Ireland to spend Christmas with my family, tickets from a weekend in Paris together, photos.. Would this help prove this is a genuine marriage and not one of convenience?
Any help would be appreciated. |
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Lucapooka
Guru
Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 6587
Location: Brasil
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| You'll be fine if you can show previous contact; they are filtering for recently married couples who have no historical contact from certain countries that have proven to produce a high volume of sham arrangements. |
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tom_tom_tom
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Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent! Thank you for the reply..
I was getting concerned as I read the forum about refusals!! |
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Nimitta
Member of Standing
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| tom_tom_tom wrote: | Excellent! Thank you for the reply..
I was getting concerned as I read the forum about refusals!! |
I did not know they can suspect a citizen of Japan in marriage of convenience. What would they need it for? Japan is not a country from which citizens have a good reason to flee (like Ukraine, Kazachstan, poor Asian and African countries). |
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nonspecifics
Senior Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 372
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject: Marriages of convenience |
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It seems to be Pakistanis, Indians and Nigerians marrying eastern europeans that UKBA seem to suspect the most of being involved in sham marriages.
Though, they could suspect anyone.
It should not be necessary, but the more evidence that you can provide of a shared history / relationship prior to marriage, and evidence of plans to live together afterwards would be helpful in allaying their fears, in case you get a very over-zealous official examining your EEA family permit application. |
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tom_tom_tom
Junior Member
Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, sounds god. Thank you everyone for the information.
I will submit as much information as I can to show the relationship is genuine but as mentioned it is not likely I will have a problem. |
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nonspecifics
Senior Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 372
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:08 pm Post subject: Exercising treaty rights |
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| Remember that, as you are already living in the UK, you will be required to prove that you have been exercising treaty rights in the UK during that time. |
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tom_tom_tom
Junior Member
Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: Exercising treaty rights |
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| nonspecifics wrote: | | Remember that, as you are already living in the UK, you will be required to prove that you have been exercising treaty rights in the UK during that time. |
Ok, when you say "exercising treaty rights" do you mean working and living here? |
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nonspecifics
Senior Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 372
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:38 pm Post subject: Exercising treaty rights |
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| Yes, you said you were working in the UK, so you have been exercising treaty rights as a worker, so just show proof of that, such as a P60 or letter from employer or payslips. |
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irene_hamm
Junior Member
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:38 am Post subject: Re: Marriages of convenience |
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| nonspecifics wrote: | | It seems to be Pakistanis, Indians and Nigerians marrying eastern europeans that UKBA seem to suspect the most of being involved in sham marriages. |
Will like to ask a question, has anyone here heard of someone been deported base on suspecious by HO on marriage of convinience?, without HO producing fact evidence that it is a marriage of convinience. I think the court deal with fact not suspecious cus everyone goes to court because of suspecioius to prove fact. I am just wondering if anyone has seen or hear a case of deportation under eea route on that, bcus i notice HO are just saying this to many people on family permit that are not here in the country. But those that are here can they deport base on suspecious alone which actually the parties are living together and in good relationship here in uk. I think there most be fact as i read under eea route that it was actually sham not just because of bad immigration history or suspecious.
Am just wondering if the law allow that to be use without any fact like them admitting or they found out with evidence that money was involved and they never live together or intend to live together, even some say here that EU Law did not say they must live together so this is really confusing. what is the real fact they must show to the court that it is a marriage of convinience to falicitate a deportation.
Solicitor will confused you and many also will confused you saying the Requirement of the national law is not required in the eu route and at the end, the requirement are the same. but some will say bad immigration history and some will say they eu law say inrelivant of your immigration history.
it is funny, but i think all is the same, but how easy is the deportation of an original family member of an eu were HO is on suspecious that is marriage of convinience without an iota of fact just base on immigration history. |
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Jambo
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Joined: 02 Oct 2009
Posts: 6305
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:10 am Post subject: |
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The HO does press release when arrests are being made or a jail sentence given. See here and here. In the two cases, the parties have been jailed and will probably face deportation on release from jail.
The HO will not deport based on a suspicion but will arrest, investigate and charge if the suspicion is confirmed. |
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irene_hamm
Junior Member
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| Jambo wrote: | The HO does press release when arrests are being made or a jail sentence given. See here and here. In the two cases, the parties have been jailed and will probably face deportation on release from jail.
The HO will not deport based on a suspicion but will arrest, investigate and charge if the suspicion is confirmed. |
I know of that, we all know of that, my question is, has HO deport base on Suspisious?
In everyday life, people goes to court base on suspicious, arrest are made base on suspicious, Charges are made base on suspicious and court will go by the fact of the case not base on suspicious.
In many case HO just refuse application base on suspicious, no interview, no arrest, no visiting, nothing.
Have they ever deport base on suspicious without FACT and are everyone they suspect the marriage are charged to court?
Everyone know of marriage of convinience and a sham marriage, even outside of immigration it is happening.
but my question is that: Has anyone been Deported Base on Suspicious? |
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tom_tom_tom
Junior Member
Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: EEA Family Permit - Marriage of Convenience |
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| tom_tom_tom wrote: | Hello
I have a few questions about an EEA family permit. I am going to marry my fiancé in early January (she is Japanese and I am Irish) in Japan ( I currently live and work in the UK). Very soon after this (hopefully we can get it all sorted when I am in Japan next week) she plans to apply for an EEA family permit as my spouse. When we get married in January we are not having any wedding party/reception as we cannot afford this at the moment. We are going to wait until late 2012.
We have been in a relationship for 14 months. During this time she has spent about 6 months in the UK on various trips and I have been to Japan twice on short visits.
I am concerned out relationship is not long enough and may been seen as a marriage of convenience? Can anyone offer any help?
With the application we plan to include information like email logs, plane tickets where we recently travelled to Ireland to spend Christmas with my family, tickets from a weekend in Paris together, photos.. Would this help prove this is a genuine marriage and not one of convenience?
Any help would be appreciated. |
On a slightly separate issue I have a question regarding money.
I will be sponsoring my wife. She is currently unemployed having been in the UK for the past three months studying English (on a visitor visa).
We do not have any savings. I have a full time permanent job (I have a letter from my employer confirming this, 12 months’ pay slips and a P60). I also own my own flat and have a manageable mortgage (I will also include my mortgage statement and deeds of the flat) although I never have any money left at the end of the month (but also have no debts).
In terms of documents about my finances would six months statements from my current account showing wages coming, bills and general living expenses going out be ok?
Could my lack of savings be a problem? |
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Jambo
Guru
Joined: 02 Oct 2009
Posts: 6305
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Although the EEA FP application form asks about finances, it is not required by Eu law in your case. Better to leave it out from the application. Just write N/A for that section. You are only required to show that you work in the UK so employer letter, 2-3 recent payslips (you can throw in a P60 if you wish) is all that is needed. There is also no need to provide information about your accommodation or mortgage.
Make it simple as sometimes providing too much information would work against you (providing reason for a refusal). |
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Obie
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Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Posts: 3947
Location: UK/Ireland
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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A Japanese citizen is a visa free national, so do not require a visa. They could simply travel to the UK and apply for leave under code 1A.
An EEA family permit is a national law requirement and has nothing to do with community law.
Core family members of an EEA national are not Subjected to national Law requirement.
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tom_tom_tom
Junior Member
Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Jambo wrote: | Although the EEA FP application form asks about finances, it is not required by Eu law in your case. Better to leave it out from the application. Just write N/A for that section. You are only required to show that you work in the UK so employer letter, 2-3 recent payslips (you can throw in a P60 if you wish) is all that is needed. There is also no need to provide information about your accommodation or mortgage.
Make it simple as sometimes providing too much information would work against you (providing reason for a refusal). |
ok thank you for the information... This is a very confusing system (when they ask for information that is not required). It is hard to find a balance between too much and too little information and the last thing we want is a refusal.. |
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tom_tom_tom
Junior Member
Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Obie wrote: | A Japanese citizen is a visa free national, so do not require a visa. They could simply travel to the UK and apply for leave under code 1A.
An EEA family permit is a national law requirement and has nothing to do with community law.
Core family members of an EEA national are not Subjected to national Law requirement. |
Is this where she could travel to the UK as a normal visitor with her passport and then we can apply for a EEA2 in the UK?
In Sep 2011 she came to the UK and was give a 6 month stamp in her passport. We then went to Paris for a weekend and the border officer on our return was asking her many questions about why she was in the UK etc because she had entered the UK 5 times in the past 12 months. He then wrote in her passport she must leave on December 29th - the date of her scheduled return flight to Japan. So she left yesterday. Given this I think it is best if we get everything sorted in Japan first as we fear she might be refused entry as a visitor and I assume this would only cause problems? Does this make sense? |
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Lucapooka
Guru
Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 6587
Location: Brasil
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, but be careful if you take Obie's advice. To enter as a visitor under UK rules one needs to prove an intention to visit to leave (rather than enter and reside). If they suspect that she will not be leaving (and, instead, applying for residence with her EEA partner) they are perfectly entitled to refuse her entry. many people have been refused on this basis. An EEA permit is free and quick and will confirm her entry in the right category. |
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tom_tom_tom
Junior Member
Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Lucapooka wrote: | | Yes, but be careful if you take Obie's advice. To enter as a visitor under UK rules one needs to prove an intention to visit to leave (rather than enter and reside). If they suspect that she will not be leaving (and, instead, applying for residence with her EEA partner) they are perfectly entitled to refuse her entry. many people have been refused on this basis. An EEA permit is free and quick and will confirm her entry in the right category. |
Ok, well if she did enter the UK it would be to get a residents card. So I guess this rules out this route.
I assume if she gets the family permit in Japan once she enters the UK she is free to get a residents and wont be refused on this basis? |
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Lucapooka
Guru
Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 6587
Location: Brasil
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Correct |
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