APPEAL REFUSED WHAT NEXT; HELP

My Husband was refused settlement in the UK, because he overstayed, worked illegally and admiited obtain false entry clearance stamps in Nigeria to cover his oveystay in the UK . This happened b/4 we met.

since we met he has tried to do the right thing

he returned to nigeria
we got married
applied for settlement- failed
appealed to ait -failed
applealed again on error of law to ait= failed
is it worth going to the high court?

we mentioned human rights grounds because I receive medical treament not available in nigeria, this was ignored. HELP

can I please get some help from someone about this matter, or can I get recommendation of where to obtain free immigration advise.

Hi,

Are you saying that he was refused due to deception? Is he subject to a ban?

For immigration advise try:-

http://www.iasuk.org/

I dont mean to seem harsh but I think the deception is the main reason for the refusal which in itself is wrong as I am assuming that your husband admitted this in his interview. They try and use the overstay as a reason to refuse an application but some judges dont see it as a problem You need to find a good solicitor

BROOMIE wrote:I dont mean to seem harsh but I think the deception is the main reason for the refusal which in itself is wrong as I am assuming that your husband admitted this in his interview. They try and use the overstay as a reason to refuse an application but some judges dont see it as a problem You need to find a good solicitor

Let's hope he actually wasn't refused under paragraph 320(7A), but I doubt he would have been refused for deception as he was honest about his previous breaches.

As the application was decided before the 1st of April 08(???), it is likely that he would have been refused under the old 320(11)??

If he re-applies now, he can't be refused for deception so long he doesn't lie on his application. Paragraph 320(7C) should protect him from previous deception but he might still get a contriving to frustrate refusal but let's hope not.

terri wrote:My Husband was refused settlement in the UK, because he overstayed, worked illegally and admiited obtain false entry clearance stamps in Nigeria to cover his oveystay in the UK . This happened b/4 we met.

since we met he has tried to do the right thing

he returned to nigeria
we got married
applied for settlement- failed
appealed to ait -failed
applealed again on error of law to ait= failed
is it worth going to the high court?

we mentioned human rights grounds because I receive medical treament not available in nigeria, this was ignored. HELP

which paragraphs was he refused on?

Yes, his application was refused before April 2008. On the decision notice it was refused under paragraph 320(11).

I just dont know what to do , money is a bit tight because i'm supporting him. I used a lawyer in the initial appeal and he was not good. It was a waste of money, documents were missing and not presented to the judge.

So I appealed for again foe a reconsideration and presented additional documents, but the Judge made no order for reconsideration, stating that
"the appellant was was represented at the hearing and had the opportunity of producing any documents he wished to rely on" However the Home office representative did not also produce all the doccuments we relied, this was mentionded at the hearing , but not noted in the report.

I need to know if its worth going to the high court or do we make a fresh appplication?

What about my EU rights?

BROOMIE wrote:I dont mean to seem harsh but I think the deception is the main reason for the refusal which in itself is wrong as I am assuming that your husband admitted this in his interview. They try and use the overstay as a reason to refuse an application but some judges dont see it as a problem You need to find a good solicitor

Dont worry about being harsh, I've been more than harsh with my husband for his bad judgement.
I dont feel that the deception is the issue here, but how do you recover from the issue of deceptioni . surely even criminal can be re-habiliated and be given a second chance. Do Judges consider this? I just want my family back together. How long can thay continue to refuse his application? whats the worst case scenario, I could be looking at?

Twin wrote:

terri wrote:My Husband was refused settlement in the UK, because he overstayed, worked illegally and admiited obtain false entry clearance stamps in Nigeria to cover his oveystay in the UK . This happened b/4 we met.

since we met he has tried to do the right thing

he returned to nigeria
we got married
applied for settlement- failed
appealed to ait -failed
applealed again on error of law to ait= failed
is it worth going to the high court?

we mentioned human rights grounds because I receive medical treament not available in nigeria, this was ignored. HELP

which paragraphs was he refused on?

He was refused under paragraph 320(11)

terri wrote:Yes, his application was refused before April 2008. On the decision notice it was refused under paragraph 320(11).

I just dont know what to do , money is a bit tight because i'm supporting him. I used a lawyer in the initial appeal and he was not good. It was a waste of money, documents were missing and not presented to the judge.

So I appealed for again foe a reconsideration and presented additional documents, but the Judge made no order for reconsideration, stating that
"the appellant was was represented at the hearing and had the opportunity of producing any documents he wished to rely on" However the Home office representative did not also produce all the doccuments we relied, this was mentionded at the hearing , but not noted in the report.

I need to know if its worth going to the high court or do we make a fresh appplication?

What about my EU rights?

The judge is saying that the HO didn't sumbit everything either and they won so they are unlikely to reopen it. If you petitiion the high court it must be the based on the rule of law OR you will have to claim and PROVE that you had an incompetent lawyer. This can not be proven because he lost your case. If he was disbarred or say you found out that he was an alcholic.

terri wrote:

Twin wrote:

terri wrote:My Husband was refused settlement in the UK, because he overstayed, worked illegally and admiited obtain false entry clearance stamps in Nigeria to cover his oveystay in the UK . This happened b/4 we met.

since we met he has tried to do the right thing

he returned to nigeria
we got married
applied for settlement- failed
appealed to ait -failed
applealed again on error of law to ait= failed
is it worth going to the high court?

we mentioned human rights grounds because I receive medical treament not available in nigeria, this was ignored. HELP

which paragraphs was he refused on?

He was refused under paragraph 320(11)

Personally, i'd save some money and reapply. It isn't so bad as he wasn't refused on a deception clause, it was just part of the reasons.

The concession should work in your favour meaning he cannot be refused for previous deception a la paragraph 320(7c), however, 320 (11) is still possible but i've read good report from Nigeria recently regarding issue of entry clearance.

I would try again, to be honest with you.

You basically have to build a strong article 8 arguement and you might need a lawyer to do this. Read up on case laws yourself if you have the time.

With regard to your EU rights, the only one available to you now is article 8. Perhaps if you were exercising your treaty rights in...say Ireland for example, you might be home dry. Well, that is another option you could look at if all else fails but I have a good feeling that you might just be successful the second time around. High court and getting a barrister can be pretty expensive. You could be looking at another £2k in legal fees to be honest as opposed to £500 visa fees.

all the best.

Twin wrote:

terri wrote:

Twin wrote:

terri wrote:My Husband was refused settlement in the UK, because he overstayed, worked illegally and admiited obtain false entry clearance stamps in Nigeria to cover his oveystay in the UK . This happened b/4 we met.

since we met he has tried to do the right thing

he returned to nigeria
we got married
applied for settlement- failed
appealed to ait -failed
applealed again on error of law to ait= failed
is it worth going to the high court?

we mentioned human rights grounds because I receive medical treament not available in nigeria, this was ignored. HELP

which paragraphs was he refused on?

He was refused under paragraph 320(11)

Personally, i'd save some money and reapply. It isn't so bad as he wasn't refused on a deception clause, it was just part of the reasons.

The concession should work in your favour meaning he cannot be refused for previous deception a la paragraph 320(7c), however, 320 (11) is still possible but i've read good report from Nigeria recently regarding issue of entry clearance.

I would try again, to be honest with you.

You basically have to build a strong article 8 arguement and you might need a lawyer to do this. Read up on case laws yourself if you have the time.

With regard to your EU rights, the only one available to you now is article 8. Perhaps if you were exercising your treaty rights in...say Ireland for example, you might be home dry. Well, that is another option you could look at if all else fails but I have a good feeling that you might just be successful the second time around. High court and getting a barrister can be pretty expensive. You could be looking at another £2k in legal fees to be honest as opposed to £500 visa fees.

all the best.

I apppreciate you commments, and we will put in a fresh appplication. Apart the basic information required in a fresh application, are there any further information that I will need to provide to strenghten our application i.e related to Article 8. i.e I have medical problems which can not be addressed in Nigeria, this has been confirmed due to lack facilities and competence in the medical area (but I dont know if they will view it as not being a serious medical issue)

Whilst I have a goos Job (income). My bank statements are not in their best state at the moment, so we need to wait a while to rebuild my finances. The last time we had around £3000 savings, is this the amount of savings I need to have or will smaller amount be acceptable?

perhaps you might want to peruse the AIT case laws to search for a case that mirrors yours where their appeal was won and use it in your argument.

terri wrote:

Twin wrote:

terri wrote:

Twin wrote:
which paragraphs was he refused on?

He was refused under paragraph 320(11)

Personally, i'd save some money and reapply. It isn't so bad as he wasn't refused on a deception clause, it was just part of the reasons.

The concession should work in your favour meaning he cannot be refused for previous deception a la paragraph 320(7c), however, 320 (11) is still possible but i've read good report from Nigeria recently regarding issue of entry clearance.

I would try again, to be honest with you.

You basically have to build a strong article 8 arguement and you might need a lawyer to do this. Read up on case laws yourself if you have the time.

With regard to your EU rights, the only one available to you now is article 8. Perhaps if you were exercising your treaty rights in...say Ireland for example, you might be home dry. Well, that is another option you could look at if all else fails but I have a good feeling that you might just be successful the second time around. High court and getting a barrister can be pretty expensive. You could be looking at another £2k in legal fees to be honest as opposed to £500 visa fees.

all the best.

I apppreciate you commments, and we will put in a fresh appplication. Apart the basic information required in a fresh application, are there any further information that I will need to provide to strenghten our application i.e related to Article 8. i.e I have medical problems which can not be addressed in Nigeria, this has been confirmed due to lack facilities and competence in the medical area (but I dont know if they will view it as not being a serious medical issue)

Whilst I have a goos Job (income). My bank statements are not in their best state at the moment, so we need to wait a while to rebuild my finances. The last time we had around £3000 savings, is this the amount of savings I need to have or will smaller amount be acceptable?

Hi Terri

Its basically a matter of time and finances.You asked about your EU rights?Pretty good actually only if you are willing to choose a EU member state and relocate for about 6 months,the advantage of this route is this your spouse would have to go to the French,Dutch or (you pick after very careful deliberation)embassy in his country,he would be joining you in that country and you would be returning back to the UK at the end of 6 months under EU rules NOT UK Immigration rules.On the upside you are not seperated,there is a visible time frame for your return and there are very narrow grounds for refusal,on the downside he will naturalize in 5 years instead of three,oh and yeah the EU route is completely free as opposed to the 500+pounds for the UK spouse visa.

Homework:Google Surrinder Singh,Look at the residence requirements for your(chosen)EU country.

Note:I can anticipate the questions/obstacles to this course but they are mainly logistical,if you would reapply though,you HAVE to give them everything they ask for plus hope and pray the ECO is not having a bad day.If hes in Ireland,France or Brussels,you can commute,you can.......get the picture.G'luck whatever you do.

freshprince wrote:Hi Terri

Its basically a matter of time and finances.You asked about your EU rights?Pretty good actually only if you are willing to choose a EU member state and relocate for about 6 months,the advantage of this route is this your spouse would have to go to the French,Dutch or (you pick after very careful deliberation)embassy in his country,he would be joining you in that country and you would be returning back to the UK at the end of 6 months under EU rules NOT UK Immigration rules.On the upside you are not seperated,there is a visible time frame for your return and there are very narrow grounds for refusal,on the downside he will naturalize in 5 years instead of three,oh and yeah the EU route is completely free as opposed to the 500+pounds for the UK spouse visa.

Homework:Google Surrinder Singh,Look at the residence requirements for your(chosen)EU country.

Note:I can anticipate the questions/obstacles to this course but they are mainly logistical,if you would reapply though,you HAVE to give them everything they ask for plus hope and pray the ECO is not having a bad day.If hes in Ireland,France or Brussels,you can commute,you can.......get the picture.G'luck whatever you do.

Freshprince, thanks so much for your input. frankly I dont want to waste any more time with the ECO in in Niigeria, my biological clock is ticking and if my /eu rights are strong, indeed I might decide to exercise them, but the question is which country to choose. Indeed I can commute. Hmm! I do get the picture Is there a good site that could go to with good information on EU residency rights?

On sites to get EU residency information,there are loads of them,for Netherlands its www.ind.nl or google the info you need although I would suggest you browsing carefully through the threads for country specific information.The great thing about this route is the psychological and mental torture of separation and what ifs is greatly reduced.In choosing a country,weigh this factors:How steep or straightforward is the red tape? i.e Belgium requires your marriage certificate legalized if you married in a Non EU state.Do you want to be very close to the UK i.e France Belgium or Netherlands OR would you factor in costs and choose farther East Czech Republic,Poland,Bulgaria where your living costs are drastically reduced.Strategize according to your cash inflows or savings and keep in mind its only for 6 months.

Check your PM.

Terri,

I am looking at this route too, as a possible it all goes-pear-shaped plan B. If you have a look at the visa application form from either the Dutch or French embassies it's suprisingly simple and you don't have to answer many of the questions as an EU type person; I cannot comment on the process.

You might want to have a look at the home office's european casework guidance as it explains what is needed for you to complete the Surinder Singh route. Do get some legal advice from the Immigration Advisory Service though. One thing to watch in the guidance is that it states that someone must have prior lawful residence..blah...blah...blah...hopefully one of the experts on this site can give some input -> as regards a recent european justice case regarding the rights of free movement.

Good luck, and if you do go down this route i'd certainly be interested to hear your experiences.

Somewhere, if i can find it, I have a nice webpage that shows you what visa appeals processes exist in which countries. If I find it, i'll post it for everyone to have a look at.

PPie

freshprince wrote:On sites to get EU residency information,there are loads of them,for Netherlands its www.ind.nl or google the info you need although I would suggest you browsing carefully through the threads for country specific information.The great thing about this route is the psychological and mental torture of separation and what ifs is greatly reduced.In choosing a country,weigh this factors:How steep or straightforward is the red tape? i.e Belgium requires your marriage certificate legalized if you married in a Non EU state.Do you want to be very close to the UK i.e France Belgium or Netherlands OR would you factor in costs and choose farther East Czech Republic,Poland,Bulgaria where your living costs are drastically reduced.Strategize according to your cash inflows or savings and keep in mind its only for 6 months.

Check your PM.

I have now decided to exercise my EU treay rights in Ireland. Can anyone advise me about the reguired documents.I understand they require 6 months bank statements. how much money do I need in my account.

porkpie wrote:Terri,

I am looking at this route too, as a possible it all goes-pear-shaped plan B. If you have a look at the visa application form from either the Dutch or French embassies it's suprisingly simple and you don't have to answer many of the questions as an EU type person; I cannot comment on the process.

You might want to have a look at the home office's european casework guidance as it explains what is needed for you to complete the Surinder Singh route. Do get some legal advice from the Immigration Advisory Service though. One thing to watch in the guidance is that it states that someone must have prior lawful residence..blah...blah...blah...hopefully one of the experts on this site can give some input -> as regards a recent european justice case regarding the rights of free movement.

Good luck, and if you do go down this route i'd certainly be interested to hear your experiences.

Somewhere, if i can find it, I have a nice webpage that shows you what visa appeals processes exist in which countries. If I find it, i'll post it for everyone to have a look at.

PPie

freshprince wrote:On sites to get EU residency information,there are loads of them,for Netherlands its www.ind.nl or google the info you need although I would suggest you browsing carefully through the threads for country specific information.The great thing about this route is the psychological and mental torture of separation and what ifs is greatly reduced.In choosing a country,weigh this factors:How steep or straightforward is the red tape? i.e Belgium requires your marriage certificate legalized if you married in a Non EU state.Do you want to be very close to the UK i.e France Belgium or Netherlands OR would you factor in costs and choose farther East Czech Republic,Poland,Bulgaria where your living costs are drastically reduced.Strategize according to your cash inflows or savings and keep in mind its only for 6 months.

Check your PM.

terri wrote:A quick background:

in 2008 my Husband was refused settlement in the UK, because he overstayed, worked illegally and admiited obtain false entry clearance stamps in Nigeria to cover his oveystay in the UK Sad . This happened b/4 we met.

since we met he has tried to do the right thing

he returned to nigeria
we got married
applied for settlement- failed (He was refused under paragraph 320(11)
appealed to ait -failed
applealed again on error of law to ait= failed

No further applications have been made since and we have continued to maintain our relationship across boarders. We have recently had a church wedding in Nigeria, further to our registery marriage in 2008. We now want to put in a fresh application. Due to financial constraints will it be worth while to apply for a visiting visa first instead of a settlement visa?

vinny wrote:A visit visa application may be refused under 320(11) as well. Did he have legal advice with the appeals?

terri wrote:

vinny wrote:A visit visa application may be refused under 320(11) as well. Did he have legal advice with the appeals?

Yes, we had a terrible lawyer at the time. Thus is it best to apply for a settlement visa.

Not sure how long they can keep on refusing under 320(11). What happened with your plans to work in Ireland?

vinny wrote:Not sure how long they can keep on refusing under 320(11). What happened with your plans to work in Ireland?

My plans to work in Ireland was not possible. finding a job proofed difficult. It's not clear to me how long they can continue to refuse. I know automatic bans for a period depends on how the individual left the country. My husband try to return to London after a short visit and was refused entry and returned the next day on his return ticket. Bt he was held overnight at an immigration centre. This was in 2007.

See also PS (paragraph 320(11) discretion: care needed) India [2010] UKUT 440 (IAC) (28 September 2010).

vinny wrote:See also PS (paragraph 320(11) discretion: care needed) India [2010] UKUT 440 (IAC) (28 September 2010).

I think we need to apply for settlement. How much savings will I need to have in bank account? The last time I had £3000, but I no longer hav this amount. Does anyone know what the minimum acceptable amount is?

Having savings helps, but there is no minimum savings required. Regular income may be considered.

As you have been apart for so long, see also Subsisting marriage.