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6 Points On My License Will it Affect My Naturalization ????

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, Zimba

Smam
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6 Points On My License Will it Affect My Naturalization ????

Post by Smam » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:53 am

Hi

Today is the sadest day of my life as I got 6 points on my driving license

I am due to apply for my Naturalization by Sep 2013 on the basis of 5 years of WP and one year ILR.

Will it going to have any impact on my Naturalization.

The points issued to me were on the offense of driving a car with out insurance.

Many thanks and waiting for your use ful replies.

ban.s
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Post by ban.s » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:13 am

driving without an insurance is not a minor ofference and unlikely to be disregarded.
check Good Character requirements on page 15-16 of AN Booklet

Smam
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Location: London

Post by Smam » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:04 pm

Hi

I've checked the AN booklet and found this sentence on page of that booklet which I failed to understand.

Please note that a driving conviction may not yet be disregarded despite any penalty points being removed from your driving licence.

To the best of my understanding of the above sentence means that no matter even if the points being removed from my license I'll still not eligible to apply for my naturalization as a British Citizen.

This is the first time I've got the points on my license I am not sure what will happen in my case.

Please help me any replies. Moderators or any one who has come accross this kind of situation in their life.

skilachi
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Post by skilachi » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Hi,

Can you please send/paste the link to the AN booklet. Can seem to locate it.

thanks

ban.s
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Post by ban.s » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:50 pm

For non custodial offence - Applications should be refused if the conviction occurred in the last 3 years.
Should be fine after 3 years from the date of conviction.

Gyfrinachgar
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Post by Gyfrinachgar » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:52 pm

skilachi wrote:Can you please send/paste the link to the AN booklet. Can seem to locate it.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... ide_an.pdf
Page 1-24: Guide AN.
Page 25-44: Booklet AN.
Smam wrote:Will it going to have any impact on my Naturalization
Yes. Six points on a licence are no showstopper per se; however, DWI is a very serious problem. "Drink-driving offences, driving while uninsured or disqualified or driving whilst using a mobile phone are not minor offences" (Booklet AN; page 15). See also here.

skilachi
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Post by skilachi » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:24 pm

So does this mean, "spent" and "unspent" convictions do not come into effect anymore in the event of non-custodial sentence?

I got a driving ban for drink-driving last year Aug 2012 + fine. Ban is suppose to end Nov 2013, so the earliest I can apply for Naturalisation is Aug/Nov 2015, is this correct?

Gyfrinachgar
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Post by Gyfrinachgar » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:30 pm

skilachi wrote:I got a driving ban for drink-driving last year Aug 2012 + fine. Ban is suppose to end Nov 2013, so the earliest I can apply for Naturalisation is Aug/Nov 2015, is this correct?
End of Nov/2013: Waiting time table in Annex D(i) to Chapter 18 of the caseworkers manual: "Driving disqualification: The period of disqualification"

skilachi
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Post by skilachi » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:36 pm

Oh really, thats good news if I can apply for BC/Naturalisation end of Nov 2013 (10months) I guess. Definately not gettin into any more trouble from now till ever.

But what about the part that states fines

Fines
5 years (or 2½ years if under 18 at the time of conviction).

Driving disqualification
The period of disqualification

Normally would have been eligible in March/April 2013 as I got my ILR March 2012.

Thanks for the post/reply!!!

Smam
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Post by Smam » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:55 pm

Hi

More precisely I've read the fine issued to me it says on the top of yellow ticket issued to me Metropolitan Police Fixed Penality Notice (Endorseable) where I've to pay £200 fine and I also have to produce my license at the nearest police station.

It didn't says that I am disqualified from driving or any thing like that I've asked the Police officer who issued me the Fine Notice he also explained to me that I'll get points on my license but its not issued to me by a court or any thing like that just says a fixed penality notice (endorseable). It was issued to me on the road by a police officer.

I am really getting confused now that will it be treated as a Fixed Penality Notice but I'll also get points on my driving License for driving with out insurance where as I am fully comprehensive insured on my car and I was driving my friends car under the impression that I can drive any vehicle in UK if I am insured fully comprehensive.

Will it be treated as a Fixed Penality Notice or will it be treated as an Offense ? and ending up affecting my Naturalization in this September 2013.

I've read the same guidelines on Booklet AN December 2012 version more precisely points 3.6 on page 8-9.

Many thanks and waiting for your useful replies.

ban.s
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Post by ban.s » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:09 pm

Smam wrote:
I was driving my friends car under the impression that I can drive any vehicle in UK if I am insured fully comprehensive.
was the other car not insured?

vinitmanu
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Post by vinitmanu » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:20 pm

ban.s wrote:
Smam wrote:
I was driving my friends car under the impression that I can drive any vehicle in UK if I am insured fully comprehensive.
was the other car not insured?
Why don't you check with your insurance provider. Some comprehensive insurance covers you for third party on someone else's car.

ban.s
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Post by ban.s » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:38 pm

vinitmanu wrote: Some comprehensive insurance covers you for third party on someone else's car.
...that's normally applicable if the other car also has current and valid insurance.

Smam
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Post by Smam » Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:14 pm

Hi

I am definitely going to check this with my insurer first thing tomorrow morning. As my friends has also got the fully comprehensive insurance on his car.

I was so damn sure that if we both are fully comprehensive insured I can drive his vehicle.

But to my surprise when the policeman said this thing to me that I am not insured to drive this vehilce even after having a fully comprehensive insurance my self, literary I felt that as if my world is end for me and I was so distressed that I was nearly about to pass out in front of the officer but the officer later on said to me that its just a Fixed Penality Notice its not a crimnal offense and we're not taking you to the court or any thing like that you just have to pay the Fixed Penality of £200 and get the points endorced on your license that's all about it.

I heard that I wont be able to apply for my Naturalization for a period of another 5 years if I'll just get the points endorsed on my license is this true ? I dont know how can I be able to prove me innocense I am feeling so helpless at the moment.

Many thanks and waiting for your useful replies.

ban.s
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Post by ban.s » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:06 pm

yes, definitely speak with your Insurer and seek clarification. Infact even with Third Party insurance you can normally drive another private car, as long as the other car had valid insurance.

mkhan84
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Post by mkhan84 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:57 pm

Have a look my friend


http://www.justanswer.com/uk-immigratio ... d-ilr.html






As soon as you plead guilty to the charge you will have a criminal conviction. When you apply for British citizenship you must declare this criminal conviction. Only road traffic offences dealt with by way of a fixed penalty notice (parking and speeding offences) and offences which are "spent" under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 do not have to be declared. It would be a criminal offence for you not to declare the conviction and you could be prosecuted.



It is not possible to state precisely how the conviction will affect your application for British citizenship. Home Office policy states as follows "We will normally disregard a single conviction for a minor offence resulting in a bind over, conditional discharge or relatively small fine or compensation order, if a person is suitable for citizenship in all other respects. By "minor offences" we mean speeding or other "regulatory" offences. Offences involving dishonesty (e.g. theft), violence or sexual offences are not classed as minor offences. Drink-driving offences, driving while uninsured or disqualified are not minor offences either." This is a quote from the following document:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... ide_an.pdf



Therefore, if the Home Office treats your conviction for using a mobile phone while driving as akin to speeding you should still be granted citizenship. However, if they consider that it is closer to drink-driving or driving while uninsured then they will refuse to grant you citizenship.



The sentence imposed by the court will be an important factor that the Home Office will consider when deciding whether the offence should be treated as a minor offence or not. I would also advise that when you make your application you should include some carefully drafted written representations as to why the offence should be treated as a minor offence akin to speeding in terms of seriousness. You should consider seeking the assistance of a solicitor or specialist immigration barrister to help you with your application.

Read more: I am about applying for british citizenship as i hold an ILR - JustAnswer http://www.justanswer.com/uk-immigratio ... z2HtZMYP1y

Smam
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Post by Smam » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:06 pm

Hi,

First of all I would like extend my gratitude for taking the time to reply to my querry.
As soon as you plead guilty to the charge you will have a criminal conviction.
The answer to your above question is that my friend that I dont have to go to court as I've been told by the Police Officer I just have to produce my license at the nearest Police Station and just have to pay £200 fine so there's no question of the involvement of any court in my case. Unless and until I'll go for an apeal against the FPN then I'll end up getting the courts involved which I am not really thinking to do now.
When you apply for British citizenship you must declare this criminal conviction Only road traffic offences dealt with by way of a fixed penalty notice (parking and speeding offences) and offences which are "spent" under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 do not have to be declared. It would be a criminal offence for you not to declare the conviction and you could be prosecuted.
.


I really agree with the above sentence. I am not intending to hide any thing.
I would also advise that when you make your application you should include some carefully drafted written representations as to why the offence should be treated as a minor offence akin to speeding in terms of seriousness. You should consider seeking the assistance of a solicitor or specialist immigration barrister to help you with your application.
Well I am also thinking to do the same thing to write a good drafted letter, my friend but lets see if the CW really believes on that.

Well my friend and I was never ever stopped on speeding I am an extremely law abiding citizen I never ever drive above the speed limits never in my life, the police stopped me as my friends lost his No Plate 2 months ago and he has reported his no plate to the police. It just flagged up in their car computer which is ANPR system my friend was sitting next to me that's what I've explained to Police officer that I was under an impression that I am allowed to drive my friends car as well as both of us got the fully comprehensive insurance. Later on the police officer explained to me that unfortunately according to my policy I am not allowed to drive my friends car and he further added that he's acting a bit linient by not taking me to the cell and by not seizing the car and just by issuing FPN.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... plications

If you go through the above link in a bit of a detail, it says clearly that I've to wait for 5 years before applying for my Naturalization which is just totally unfair for any small mistake even though the points will get clear in 4 years time period.

Well I am feeling so dishearted that I just cant expalin in words.

Thanks to God but God Knows why I've to suffer every time any ways.

Many thanks and waiting for your useful reply.

ban.s
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Post by ban.s » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:44 pm

Smam wrote:Later on the police officer explained to me that unfortunately according to my policy I am not allowed to drive my friends car
have you checked your policy or spoken to Insurance? doesn't it allow you to drive another car?

wpilr_nov12
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Post by wpilr_nov12 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:38 am

Smam, sorry to hear about your situation. Why does misfortune pick you at the most important year of your life, for a second time?

Keep faith. I hope it will be resolved like your previous incident without affecting anything detrimentally.
Please do not send me PM if I haven't sent you one yet.
My ILR, MN1 and kids PP stories.

Smam
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Post by Smam » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:22 am

wpilr_nov12 wrote:Smam, sorry to hear about your situation. Why does misfortune pick you at the most important year of your life, for a second time?

Keep faith. I hope it will be resolved like your previous incident without affecting anything detrimentally.
Hi wpilr_nov12

First of all thanks a million for your extremely positive reply to my post. It gave me a lot of confidence.

Glad to see your reply to my post. I hope that life is treating you well after getting your ILR successfully. Honestly telling you that I am not really going lucky after getting my ILR bro. Lost my job being made redundant from a very good job and its been almost 6 months that I haven't had much luck in getting another job to be honest with you I think its just that finance job market.

Then again this misfortune hits me for the 2nd time in the very important time of my life any ways. After reading the new changes rules to the good character requirement I dont think so that I can get away with that this time in my life and the more I am trying to run away from this country the more I am getting trapped here dont know why.

Many thanks for your kind wishes for me I am still keeping the faith bro.

@ban.s sorry mate unfortunately I've checked my insurance policy it clearly says that I am not allowed to drive any other vehicle but I wasn't really aware of that fact I was just keeping the normal insurance rule that if both the drivers are fully comprehensive insured then you can drive. Well but any ways I think the chances are really getting slim for me now.

I am seriously planning to move some where else from this country as I had enough of bearing pressures from every where in this country.

I would also like to know what's the procedure if I stay away from this country for a period of 5 years I still have got my ILR with me at the moment I know the rules that I've to visit UK once every 2 years in order to retain my ILR. But I really dont know what will happen if I wanted to live away for a period of 5 years and I'll fullfill the condition of coming back to UK once every 2 years. I wanted to move some where abroad specially I am focusing on moving to Middle East to get a better job and I'll come back to UK to apply for my passport after spending 5 years away from UK what will be the procedure for me at that time.

Cause no matter how much positive I stay I've to see the other side of the picture I just dont really wanted to stay here any more seeing the present job market in this country.

I just didn't find that rule right that if you do one small mistake that would be the end of it for you I just didn't find that change of rule right. There are many other people in the UK who are like me and they've come accross one or other kind of misfortunes in their lives we all are human beings and we all do mistakes it happens un fortunately but to get this big punishment for a small mistake I just didn't find it right. Well any ways I think that's being written for me.

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