Baby Citizenship

Dear Advicer

I'd like to apply British citizen and passport for my baby son who were just born in 4th June 2011.

I'm a Portugual citizen (EEA) who has been living in UK since 28th July 2006. My question is whether my period of stay is sufficient accounted as 5 years for assisting my baby's application for British citizen and passport.

The problem is my son was born before this date 28th July. I'm worry about home office will reject this first baby's application for British nationality until the second who will be born on or after this date. If my son can definitely apply for British citizenship, I'm very grateful for the quoted website link for doing this. Thanks a lot.

Thanks
Iameea

See also query about new born whose parents having ILR

As your child was born before you have obtained PR status in the UK (which is after 5 years), your child will need to apply to be registered as British first (application for British citizenship). After this is approved (about 1 month), he can apply for a passport (up to 3 weeks).

The form to apply with is MN1 and the cost is £540. There is a special section in the form for children to EEA parents (section 3.13) which asks for evidence you have exercised treaty rights in the UK for 5 years. You will need to apply after 28th July 2011.

Jambo wrote:As your child was born before you have obtained PR status in the UK (which is after 5 years), your child will need to apply to be registered as British first (application for British citizenship). After this is approved (about 1 month), he can apply for a passport (up to 3 weeks).

The form to apply with is MN1 and the cost is £540. There is a special section in the form for children to EEA parents (section 3.13) which asks for evidence you have exercised treaty rights in the UK for 5 years. You will need to apply after 28th July 2011.

Hi Jambo. Thanks for your clear direction. I'd be grateful if you would advice me for this alternative approach: I've been living in Northern Ireland for more than four years before my baby born. Is possible to apply Irish citizen and passport for him as he was born in Northern Ireland. Thanks a lot

I'm not familiar with Irish laws but I would suspect, the same EU rules apply there. You will need to be resident for 5 years before the birth.

Jambo wrote:I'm not familiar with Irish laws but I would suspect, the same EU rules apply there. You will need to be resident for 5 years before the birth.

Anyone who can answer me will be highly appreciated

Jambo wrote:As your child was born before you have obtained PR status in the UK (which is after 5 years), your child will need to apply to be registered as British first (application for British citizenship). After this is approved (about 1 month), he can apply for a passport (up to 3 weeks).

The form to apply with is MN1 and the cost is £540. There is a special section in the form for children to EEA parents (section 3.13) which asks for evidence you have exercised treaty rights in the UK for 5 years. You will need to apply after 28th July 2011.

My mate friend applied for his child British passport before completing 5 years in the UK, and passport was issued by IPS.
As far as I know they give them true statement about period spend in UK.
So maybe worth send application and see what IPS replay to op?

boloney wrote: My mate friend applied for his child British passport before completing 5 years in the UK, and passport was issued by IPS.
As far as I know they give them true statement about period spend in UK.
So maybe worth send application and see what IPS replay to op?

Hi Boloney

Possible for his child British passport before completing 5 years in the UK? May you quote more details of complete timeline in how exactly your mate friend got his child BP. Or directly quote me the thread by your mate.

What do your mean "true statement about period spend in UK"?

Thanks
Iameea

He was in UK about 4 years and 10 months when his baby was born.
I told him that there is no point sending the passport application, but he did anyway, with all his paperwork ( p60, payslips). And IPS issued the passport. He did told them exactly how long he was living in UK.
So maybe worth trying in your case, there is nothing you can lose.

boloney wrote:He was in UK about 4 years and 10 months when his baby was born.
I told him that there is no point sending the passport application, but he did anyway, with all his paperwork ( p60, payslips). And IPS issued the passport. He did told them exactly how long he was living in UK.
So maybe worth trying in your case, there is nothing you can lose.

Hi Boloney, thanks for your response. I'd be grateful if you would give me more information.

1) Have he worked in uk over these 4 years and 10 months?
2) When did he apply his child passport?

Thanks
iameea

1. yes,he did
2. about 2 months ago

boloney wrote:1. yes,he did
2. about 2 months ago

I am eea who started living in uk from July 2006, later on got a training course in September until 2007 got a job.

Does this 1 year gap of non-employment affect me to apply my son's BC and passport?

iameea wrote:

boloney wrote:1. yes,he did
2. about 2 months ago

I am eea who started living in uk from July 2006, later on got a training course in September until 2007 got a job.

Does this 1 year gap of non-employment affect me to apply my son's BC and passport?

was you selfsufficent?did you had private insurance?

was you selfsufficent?did you had private insurance?

I think I've registered as a jobseeker and then started off this training course for employment. And my insurance had been depending on my national insurance.

iameea wrote:

was you selfsufficent?did you had private insurance?

I think I've registered as a jobseeker and then started off this training course for employment. And my insurance had been depending on my national insurance.

I don`t know about this, but is worth trying.

iameea wrote: Hi Jambo. Thanks for your clear direction. I'd be grateful if you would advice me for this alternative approach: I've been living in Northern Ireland for more than four years before my baby born. Is possible to apply Irish citizen and passport for him as he was born in Northern Ireland. Thanks a lot

Probably yes - as long as you have accumulated 3 years legal residence in the 4 years before he was born (certain categories, such as student visa, don't count but this should not affect EEA citizens).

You don't need to have PR if you meet this requirement. But you should get the child British citizenship as well - better to have both.

boloney wrote: My mate friend applied for his child British passport before completing 5 years in the UK, and passport was issued by IPS.
As far as I know they give them true statement about period spend in UK.
So maybe worth send application and see what IPS replay to op?

Very bad idea.

Your friend's child still isn't a British citizen and the child's British passport is invalid.

He should forget the British passport and send off an MN1 form to the Home Office as soon as possible.

Very bad idea.

Your friend's child still isn't a British citizen and the child's British passport is invalid.

He should forget the British passport and send off an MN1 form to the Home Office as soon as possible.

So, what could happen now?

boloney wrote: So, what could happen now?

If he fills out a form MN1 and registers the child as British with the Home Office - nothing will happen. The child becomes British and can use the certificate to prove status if it's ever questioned in future.

Otherwise, if the child is asked to re-evidence citizenship later on, eg if the passport is lost, or it's asked for the first adult passport, etc, then obviously someone will look at it again and will then decide the passport should never have been granted in the first place. Accordingly, no new passport will be issued.

At that point, the child might still have the option to register as British - or he might not. Even if the option to register as British is there, it will take time and in the meantime, a job, education opportunity, travel opportunity etc, may all have been lost.

Obtaining a British passport to which you are not entitled does not make you a British citizen.

JAJ wrote:

boloney wrote: So, what could happen now?

If he fills out a form MN1 and registers the child as British with the Home Office - nothing will happen. The child becomes British and can use the certificate to prove status if it's ever questioned in future.

Otherwise, if the child is asked to re-evidence citizenship later on, eg if the passport is lost, or it's asked for the first adult passport, etc, then obviously someone will look at it again and will then decide the passport should never have been granted in the first place. Accordingly, no new passport will be issued.

At that point, the child might still have the option to register as British - or he might not. Even if the option to register as British is there, it will take time and in the meantime, a job, education opportunity, travel opportunity etc, may all have been lost.

Obtaining a British passport to which you are not entitled does not make you a British citizen.

I know what you saying but he told them true, thats IPS make mistake.
what evidence can they ask in 15-20 years, don`t you think that maybe too late?
like my daughter, she was born as British Citizen because I was PR before she was born, in 20 years all documents may dissapear and we may not be able to provide them again, and again.
IPS should check them in first place, and if thats them mistake they should take responsibility for it.
I was thinking about that what they will ask when we apply for renewing her passport, do you think we will have provide the same documents?

boloney wrote: I know what you saying but he told them true, thats IPS make mistake.
what evidence can they ask in 15-20 years, don`t you think that maybe too late?
like my daughter, she was born as British Citizen because I was PR before she was born, in 20 years all documents may dissapear and we may not be able to provide them again, and again.
IPS should check them in first place, and if thats them mistake they should take responsibility for it.
I was thinking about that what they will ask when we apply for renewing her passport, do you think we will have provide the same documents?

As you've already been told there are times when someone can be asked to re-evidence British citizenship. No evidence = no passport. And it will be your problem, not that of IPS.

There is no clause of the British Nationality Act that states that someone given a passport by mistake becomes a British citizen.

In your situation, you need to do all of the following:

- keep copies of all documents proving your PR;
- keep all of your child's British passports, do NOT throw out expired ones

It is also recommended to use form NS to get a separate proof of British citizenship.

JAJ wrote:

boloney wrote: I know what you saying but he told them true, thats IPS make mistake.
what evidence can they ask in 15-20 years, don`t you think that maybe too late?
like my daughter, she was born as British Citizen because I was PR before she was born, in 20 years all documents may dissapear and we may not be able to provide them again, and again.
IPS should check them in first place, and if thats them mistake they should take responsibility for it.
I was thinking about that what they will ask when we apply for renewing her passport, do you think we will have provide the same documents?

As you've already been told there are times when someone can be asked to re-evidence British citizenship. No evidence = no passport. And it will be your problem, not that of IPS.

There is no clause of the British Nationality Act that states that someone given a passport by mistake becomes a British citizen.

In your situation, you need to do all of the following:

- keep copies of all documents proving your PR;
- keep all of your child's British passports, do NOT throw out expired ones

It is also recommended to use form NS to get a separate proof of British citizenship.

I may use NS form in near future, just to be on safe site.
thanks

JAJ wrote:

iameea wrote: Hi Jambo. Thanks for your clear direction. I'd be grateful if you would advice me for this alternative approach: I've been living in Northern Ireland for more than four years before my baby born. Is possible to apply Irish citizen and passport for him as he was born in Northern Ireland. Thanks a lot

Probably yes - as long as you have accumulated 3 years legal residence in the 4 years before he was born (certain categories, such as student visa, don't count but this should not affect EEA citizens).

You don't need to have PR if you meet this requirement. But you should get the child British citizenship as well - better to have both.

Hi JAJ

Thanks for your advice. May I get this idea: Having Irish citizenship will somehow entitle the owner working/living in America. Is it right? and how?

Thanks
iameea

iameea wrote:Thanks for your advice. May I get this idea: Having Irish citizenship will somehow entitle the owner working/living in America. Is it right? and how?

Not true.

JAJ wrote:Obtaining a British passport to which you are not entitled does not make you a British citizen.

True (Regina v Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Office ex parte Ginwalla [1998] EWHC Admin 1067) (19, 31, 21, 5).

21

Passports are issued under the Royal Prerogative in the discretion of the Secretary of State. They are the property of the Crown, not of the passport holder and may be withdrawn by the Crown at any time. A British passport does not confer citizenship but is merely evidence of it. The Immigration Appeal Tribunal correctly held in Christodoulidou v. Secretary of State [1985] Immigration AR 179 that the conditions of entitlement to British citizenship are a matter of law. If a passport is issued showing a person to have a status which he does not hold in fact the passport may be withdrawn and cannot be relied on to assert a status to which the person is not entitled.

However, see also Administrative Recognition, 6.3.9 and 12 and 60(ii).

Similarly, 27

I do not accept the claimant's contention that section 3 (9) (e) of the 1971 Act reads as providing that the certificate of entitlement confers the status of right of abode. In my view the certificate of entitlement represents confirmation of the right of abode and no more. The claimant's argument that the inclusion in the previous section 82 (2) (c) of the Nationality, Immigration Asylum Act 2002 of an express right of appeal only from the refusal of a certificate of entitlement must be interpreted as meaning that a certificate of entitlement and right of abode are one and the same is placing a detail of construction upon the provision which it does not bear.