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British Citizenship/ Driving without insurance

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

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ukforever
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Post by ukforever » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:06 pm

well done.
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ukforever
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Post by ukforever » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:07 pm

I suggest to one of the moderators to put this thread as sticky.thanks.
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xiaowei
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Post by xiaowei » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:22 am

Very useful great post. It explains better than the official website. Thanks for the hard work.

nameoh12
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Post by nameoh12 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:06 am

@D4109125
i would like to ask a question.
I was arrested by the police in 2012 for public misconduct in Scotland reason was, i was order to go out of the shop by a security guard and i challenged him wanting to know why).
i was detain in the station for about 7 hours and my DNA and finger print was taken with no court action.
i was told i would be contacted if need be but, never received a letter nor was i given a fine .
when i did a criminal check on myself the case flag up as a caution.
My main problem now is that since it is in scotland and i was not requested to pay a fine, will i have a problem during my intending naturalization this year.

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Post by Amber » Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:21 am

nameoh12 wrote:@D4109125
i would like to ask a question.
I was arrested by the police in 2012 for public misconduct in Scotland reason was, i was order to go out of the shop by a security guard and i challenged him wanting to know why).
i was detain in the station for about 7 hours and my DNA and finger print was taken with no court action.
i was told i would be contacted if need be but, never received a letter nor was i given a fine .
when i did a criminal check on myself the case flag up as a caution.
My main problem now is that since it is in scotland and i was not requested to pay a fine, will i have a problem during my intending naturalization this year.
You need to be certain whether you have a police caution or not as in Scotland generally, a caution is something entirely different from that in England and Wales. It's usually a monetary bond given to the Court as a "caution" for your "Good Behaviour". However, if this is indeed a 'police caution' it should not have been given unless you agreed to it and you signed the caution form. Remember a police caution is given when you admit to an offence, it's akin to a guilty plea.

I suggest you contact the police station in question and ask them whether you were given a caution, if not, I would contest your CRB check with the DBS. If you were cautioned I would contest its legality especially if you did not admit to or sign the caution form (you can request a copy of the caution form). I would not apply to naturalise until you have sorted this issue out and clarified what "caution" you have.
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Post by bilal12 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:01 pm

Hi,

Apologies for posting this twice as I have already posted this somewhere else and just found this thread, which I think is more appropriate:

I was alleged of using Deception in my application for a PSW visa in January 2009(for Using a false document in my application).Nte:- I am not convicted of this, neither was I given a right to appeal against it.

I had still a couple of years Visa left at that time and UkBA didn't cancel that and asked me to regularise my self or leave the country with in two years.

Later on I got married to a british citizen in Feb 2010 and now I have a two years daughter as well.

I applied for a spouse visa and was granted that.

after two years I applied for an Indefinite leave and was granted that as well.

Now, I want to apply for my naturalisation but there is a section in this application for a good Character where I have to mention things like this as well.

If I declare this, which I think I have to declare. what do you think could be the possible outcome of my application?

Also The refusal letter that was given to me when my application was refused stated that:

I should Leave the Country with in two years on my own expense and my application for entry clearance would be refused for one year.
and If they had to deport me then my future applications will be refused for ten years.

in another paragraph it is said that:

you have extant leave in UK until 15 December 2010. before the expiry of this leave you should either regularise your stay here or leave the UK on your own expense. If we have to remove you, any application for entry clearance or leave to enter that you make will be refused under the immigration rules for at least ten years.

Also I have not declared this in any previous visa applications. have I done a right thing?

Does things like this ever goes off the record?

Whats your expert opinion, that what should I do?

look forward to hearing from you soon.

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Post by Amber » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:17 pm

For naturalisation, deception is taken very seriously. Yes they will more than likely have a history of this is you were refused for deception previously. In most cases where the applicant has shown deception in a previous immigration application they will not successful for 10 years following that decision. However, if you fail to disclose a 'material fact' that in itself could amount to deception and create a citizenship application ban for 10 years. Please explain the nature of your previous deception, you supplied f a k e documents?
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bilal12
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Post by bilal12 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:25 pm

Thanks D4109125,
It was a diploma from Cambridge college(I guess pretty famous scam) which was found to be false. I could have proved myself innocent if had been given a chance to appeal!

However as I mentioned in my previous post they had stated in the refusal letter:
you have extant leave in UK until 15 December 2010. before the expiry of this leave you should either regularise your stay here or leave the UK on your own expense. If we have to remove you, any application for entry clearance or leave to enter that you make will be refused under the immigration rules for at least ten years.

So as I have regularised myself, doesn't this mean I don't fall under the 10 years ban? also they had mentioned that they even then they will not refuse my applications if my applications are of spouse or being married to a BC.
Last edited by bilal12 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by bilal12 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:27 pm

One more questions sorry!

I have not mentioned this in my previous applications i.e. ILR and spouse, as it was only an allegation as advised by some legal experts. have I done the right thing?

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Post by Amber » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:09 pm

bilal12 wrote:Thanks D4109125,
It was a diploma from Cambridge college(I guess pretty famous scam) which was found to be false. I could have proved myself innocent if had been given a chance to appeal!

However as I mentioned in my previous post they had stated in the refusal letter:
you have extant leave in UK until 15 December 2010. before the expiry of this leave you should either regularise your stay here or leave the UK on your own expense. If we have to remove you, any application for entry clearance or leave to enter that you make will be refused under the immigration rules for at least ten years.

So as I have regularised myself, doesn't this mean I don't fall under the 10 years ban? also they had mentioned that they even then they will not refuse my applications if my applications are of spouse or being married to a BC.
Well the proof of deception is only on the balance of probabilities. You should have included the information on previous applications. However, as you were not banned and have subsequently made successful applications I would just write a letter in with your application explaining the situation and your 'innocence' whatever your reason for using 'false documentation' was. The main question is .... Was the deception a principle component of the visa application.
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Post by bilal12 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:32 pm

Hi,

Thank you very much for your swift responses, its much appreciated!

Yes, that diploma was the main componant for the psw application! But reffering back to that statement in the refusal document, what do you think? Do I fall under that 10 years ban?

Why do you feel I should have declared this in my previous applications? As good character wasn't required?

And finally if I don't fall under that 10 years ban, can it still effect my application for naturalisation? As I have a cleared enhanced crb, good credit history and work as a it consultant and have got a character reference from my employer!

Once again many thanks for your valuable time.

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Post by Amber » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:55 am

bilal12 wrote:Hi,

Thank you very much for your swift responses, its much appreciated!

Yes, that diploma was the main componant for the psw application! But reffering back to that statement in the refusal document, what do you think? Do I fall under that 10 years ban?

Why do you feel I should have declared this in my previous applications? As good character wasn't required?

And finally if I don't fall under that 10 years ban, can it still effect my application for naturalisation? As I have a cleared enhanced crb, good credit history and work as a it consultant and have got a character reference from my employer!

Once again many thanks for your valuable time.
If you were refused under 320(7b) then the ban is usually 10 years. However, this does not apply when making applications to settle as a family member as you did. You should have disclosed it on other applications for the purpose of the suitability requirements (akin to character for immigration applications). If you were refused under rule 320(7b) this will weigh heavily for a naturalisation application. The fact that you have no other issues should count in your favour but there are no guarantees and the guidance suggests a 10 year ban from the date of deception.
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Post by bilal12 » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:13 pm

Thanks :)

I take it from this, I have a very little chance of getting naturalised? do you believe I shouldn't even try for it for ten years?

Also do you think they can strip me off from my existing status i.e. ILR etc?

Regards,

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Post by Amber » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:54 am

bilal12 wrote:Thanks :)

I take it from this, I have a very little chance of getting naturalised? do you believe I shouldn't even try for it for ten years?

Also do you think they can strip me off from my existing status i.e. ILR etc?

Regards,
It's unlikely that your ILR would be rejected given that the 10 year ban doesn't apply per se to family member applications. However, the issue of deception is very serious nonetheless. If you have compelling and mitigating circumstances it may prove to not be a reason for refusal for your naturalisation application.
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Good Character Requirement - Spent convictions

Post by ekzecuive » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:42 am

Hi

I posted this in the general discussions forum but then came across this thread and it seems a more relevant topic so here it is again

I had applied for Naturalisation in March 2013 and did not know that I have to declare spent conviction as per the new rule which apparently got introduced in January 2013 (Is this correct ) so I did not declare it

At the time of applying I checked the UKBA website which still says that I do not have to declare the spent conviction (see below links)

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... ngtheform/
"You do not need to provide details of any convictions which are ?spent?

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... character/
"If you have been convicted of a criminal offence you must declare your unspent convictions but do not need to declare ones that are spent. "

I received a conditional discharge in Feb 2009 for 12 months by a court for travelling on a train without a ticket. No fines were imposed as I was only ordered to pay the court cost and the cost of the ticket. The conviction became "spent" in Feb 2010 and since then I have brought my wife here to UK on Tier 1 General dependant and had my ILR in March 2012 and did not declare the "spent" conviction on both occasions

Is this going to be an issue as its been more than 2 months and I have not yet received anyting yet and the fee got deducted on 7th April

Is there a way to notify UKBA of this now. Please bear in mind that I do not have any reference number due to lack of an acknowledgement letter

Please advise !!

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Re: Good Character Requirement - Spent convictions

Post by Amber » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:52 am

ekzecuive wrote:Hi

I posted this in the general discussions forum but then came across this thread and it seems a more relevant topic so here it is again

I had applied for Naturalisation in March 2013 and did not know that I have to declare spent conviction as per the new rule which apparently got introduced in January 2013 (Is this correct ) so I did not declare it

At the time of applying I checked the UKBA website which still says that I do not have to declare the spent conviction (see below links)

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... ngtheform/
"You do not need to provide details of any convictions which are ?spent?

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... character/
"If you have been convicted of a criminal offence you must declare your unspent convictions but do not need to declare ones that are spent. "

I received a conditional discharge in Feb 2009 for 12 months by a court for travelling on a train without a ticket. No fines were imposed as I was only ordered to pay the court cost and the cost of the ticket. The conviction became "spent" in Feb 2010 and since then I have brought my wife here to UK on Tier 1 General dependant and had my ILR in March 2012 and did not declare the "spent" conviction on both occasions

Is this going to be an issue as its been more than 2 months and I have not yet received anyting yet and the fee got deducted on 7th April

Is there a way to notify UKBA of this now. Please bear in mind that I do not have any reference number due to lack of an acknowledgement letter

Please advise !!
I must admit that the ukba website is properly worded and contradicts the AN form. However, given the fact that the non-custodial sentence was more than 3 years ago and you were following the ukba website instructions, you should have nothing to worry about.
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Re: Good Character Requirement - Spent convictions

Post by ekzecuive » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:14 am

D4109125 wrote: I must admit that the ukba website is properly worded and contradicts the AN form. However, given the fact that the non-custodial sentence was more than 3 years ago and you were following the ukba website instructions, you should have nothing to worry about.
Thanks for the prompt response and I hope that it is the case :D

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Post by expatinuk » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:21 pm

Thanks for FAQs. Very helpful.

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Post by John » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:34 am

D4109125, thanks for posting this. I have now made it a sticky.
John

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Post by bilal12 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:06 am

Hi D,

Was checking something on UKBA website and came across this so I thought I will take your point of view on this in regards to my Issue:

RFL5.4 When does rule 320(7B) not apply? Rule A320

Under paragraph A320 of the Immigration Rules, you must not refuse an applicant under 320(7B) if they are applying for settlement as a family member under Appendix FM but you may consider whether the applicant falls to be refused under the suitability requirements namely S-EC.1.8.:

In, addition, as concessions outside the Rules, you should also not refuse an applicant under 320(7B) if:
the applicant has been accepted by UKBA as a victim of trafficking (see RFL 5.8)
the applicant was in the UK illegally on or after 17 March 2008 and left the UK voluntarily before 1 October 2008 (see RFL 5.7)

In addition you must not refuse an applicant under 320(7B) if:
false documents or false representations were used in a previous visa or leave to enter or remain application, and the applicant was not aware that the documents or representations were false;
the period specified for automatically refusing applications has expired; or
following their breach of UK immigration laws, UKBA issued a visa or leave to enter or remain in the knowledge of that breach, for example, a student who has overstayed but was granted LTE following an out of time application.


Looking at the last paragraph and the fact the I have been issued a couple of Visa since that PSW application refusal do you think this last paragraph gives me an edge?

Many thanks,

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