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Can Visit Visa Count As Residential Qualifying Period?

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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cctv_man
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Can Visit Visa Count As Residential Qualifying Period?

Post by cctv_man » Sun May 30, 2010 1:28 am

hi there i am new to this forum i have few question and i do help with the help of the member i will able to get my answers.

I am married with british citizen i have ILR since nov 2008 i have passed the KOL test.
I been visiting the UK from past five year before i moved here permanantly in oct 2008 on settlement visa (just KOL required for ILR). now i am confused, my friend told me i can apply citizenship before oct 2011 coz of earlier visits which were all legal.
Me and wife were living in Rep. of ireland so i visits alot to the uk but the problem is this i always visit for 2 nights only.
For example: from jan 2008 to august 2008 i visit each mounth for 2 or 3 nights repectively. then i apply the settlement and i moved to the uk since then that i was only away for 4 week.

i will wait for your reply thanks.

mrlookforward
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Re: Can Visit Visa Count As Residential Qualifying Period?

Post by mrlookforward » Sun May 30, 2010 1:53 am

cctv_man wrote:hi there i am new to this forum i have few question and i do help with the help of the member i will able to get my answers.

I am married with british citizen i have ILR since nov 2008 i have passed the KOL test.
I been visiting the UK from past five year before i moved here permanantly in oct 2008 on settlement visa (just KOL required for ILR). now i am confused, my friend told me i can apply citizenship before oct 2011 coz of earlier visits which were all legal.
Me and wife were living in Rep. of ireland so i visits alot to the uk but the problem is this i always visit for 2 nights only.
For example: from jan 2008 to august 2008 i visit each mounth for 2 or 3 nights repectively. then i apply the settlement and i moved to the uk since then that i was only away for 4 week.

i will wait for your reply thanks.
Whoever has told you that you can count your very short visits to UK as a qualified period for naturalisation, is totally and utterly wrong. Your residential qualifying period starts from october 2008.

John
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Post by John » Sun May 30, 2010 6:49 am

Whoever has told you that you can count your very short visits to UK as a qualified period for naturalisation, is totally and utterly wrong. Your residential qualifying period starts from october 2008.
Using your wording, you are "totally and utterly wrong"! The fact is that any legal time in the UK is able to count. But it is a question ensuring that all the tests are passed.

cctv_man, can you post full details, exact dates, of your movements into and out of the UK since 30.05.07 (3 years ago from today). If you do that we can then work out when it might be possible to apply for Naturalisation.
John

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Post by Wanderer » Sun May 30, 2010 7:08 am

A friend of mine's wife got naturalised with part of the qualifying period being a six month visit visa, but it was contiguous to the whole and not just a few days here and there.

I'd argue tho that a visit visa isn't 'residency' and shouldn't be counted, surprised the UKBA haven't cottoned on that yet...
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Post by John » Sun May 30, 2010 9:31 am

Wanderer, I also know of people of who have been Naturalised as British, when including time in the UK on a visitor visa.

But as regards "I'd argue tho that a visit visa isn't 'residency' and shouldn't be counted, surprised the UKBA haven't cottoned on that yet...", you are, frankly, trying to rewrite the rules. Rather than thinking in terms of "residency" you should be thinking in terms of "presence in the UK" ..... indeed legal presence in the UK.

The problem for cctv_man is that numerous short visits to the UK will potentially cause a problem, relating to the 270 day rule, which is why I asked for the exact dates.
John

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Post by djb123 » Sun May 30, 2010 9:56 am

John wrote:Wanderer, I also know of people of who have been Naturalised as British, when including time in the UK on a visitor visa.

But as regards "I'd argue tho that a visit visa isn't 'residency' and shouldn't be counted, surprised the UKBA haven't cottoned on that yet...", you are, frankly, trying to rewrite the rules. Rather than thinking in terms of "residency" you should be thinking in terms of "presence in the UK" ..... indeed legal presence in the UK.

The problem for cctv_man is that numerous short visits to the UK will potentially cause a problem, relating to the 270 day rule, which is why I asked for the exact dates.
Surely the other problem with very short visits will be making sure they were in the UK exactly 3 years prior to the day that their application is processed?

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Post by Wanderer » Sun May 30, 2010 10:07 am

John wrote:But as regards "I'd argue tho that a visit visa isn't 'residency' and shouldn't be counted, surprised the UKBA haven't cottoned on that yet...", you are, frankly, trying to rewrite the rules. Rather than thinking in terms of "residency" you should be thinking in terms of "presence in the UK" ..... indeed legal presence in the UK.
I think they've tried similar, I can remember reading here about an initial entry on visitor visa not being accepted under 10 years legal stay and wasn't time on WHM visa at one time not counted as being resident, for the purposes of switching?

I know what u mean tho, just wish all the government agencies would be constistent with their terminologies.
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cctv_man
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Post by cctv_man » Sun May 30, 2010 11:28 am

John wrote:Wanderer, I also know of people of who have been Naturalised as British, when including time in the UK on a visitor visa.

But as regards "I'd argue tho that a visit visa isn't 'residency' and shouldn't be counted, surprised the UKBA haven't cottoned on that yet...", you are, frankly, trying to rewrite the rules. Rather than thinking in terms of "residency" you should be thinking in terms of "presence in the UK" ..... indeed legal presence in the UK.

The problem for cctv_man is that numerous short visits to the UK will potentially cause a problem, relating to the 270 day rule, which is why I asked for the exact dates.
hi john thanks for you reply yes i will post the exact date of the entry into
the uk and outside the uk once i checked the all dates.
i have one question, as we know we are allowed total 270 days (during 3 years) out side the uk and not more 90 days in the last 12 mounths.

my visits in 2008 are as follow

january 27th to 29th
feb 26th to 28th
april 10th to 12 april
may 6th to 9th
june 27th to 29th
july 5th to 7th
agust 11th to 14th

and then i moved here in 5th of october permanantly, after that i went holiday for 4 week in march this year.

i didnt post the dates from 2007 coz it will not work if i count the days outside the uk if u need any more info i will provide but as i guess through the reserch i could apply in jan 2011.

thanks you and waiting for more reply.

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Post by John » Sun May 30, 2010 11:32 am

Wanderer, we are not talking about visa applications here. So any rule about a 10-year Long Residence application is irrelevant.
Surely the other problem with very short visits will be making sure they were in the UK exactly 3 years prior to the day that their application is processed?
Absolutely, but knowing of that rule they would carefully time their application. But a number of short visits to the UK, between longer periods outside the UK, means that the 270 day rule is likely to be more problematic.
John

mrlookforward
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Post by mrlookforward » Sun May 30, 2010 11:44 am

Plus there is another point too. In section 2.1 of the form An theay ask

Enter the day you first arrived with a view to staying in the UK on a long-term basis, and the airport or seaport through which you then entered.

Now for sure the date of any short visit entry cannot be mentioned there, hence op cant rely on any of those entries.

cctv_man
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Post by cctv_man » Sun May 30, 2010 11:45 am

John wrote:Wanderer, we are not talking about visa applications here. So any rule about a 10-year Long Residence application is irrelevant.
Surely the other problem with very short visits will be making sure they were in the UK exactly 3 years prior to the day that their application is processed?
Absolutely, but knowing of that rule they would carefully time their application. But a number of short visits to the UK, between longer periods outside the UK, means that the 270 day rule is likely to be more problematic.
hi john if i count days outside the uk i have worked out, i have spent aprox 231 days total outside the uk including 30 days wihch i spent outside in march this year so what are the possibilites. well still i am not in rush but just woundring if its possible thats it good. thanks

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Post by djb123 » Sun May 30, 2010 12:20 pm

John wrote:Wanderer, we are not talking about visa applications here. So any rule about a 10-year Long Residence application is irrelevant.
Surely the other problem with very short visits will be making sure they were in the UK exactly 3 years prior to the day that their application is processed?
Absolutely, but knowing of that rule they would carefully time their application. But a number of short visits to the UK, between longer periods outside the UK, means that the 270 day rule is likely to be more problematic.
Depends which way you look at it. Based on the information originally given it was always going to be possible to apply using at least one of those short visits as a start date and still keep the absences less than 270 days. But if 2 or 3 days is too short then it would be pointless working out the fine detail.

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Post by EFR3 » Sun May 30, 2010 12:29 pm

Surely the other problem with very short visits will be making sure they were in the UK exactly 3 years prior to the day that their application is processed?
Absolutely, but knowing of that rule they would carefully time their application. But a number of short visits to the UK, between longer periods outside the UK, means that the 270 day rule is likely to be more problematic.[/quote]

Depends which way you look at it. Based on the information originally given it was always going to be possible to apply using at least one of those short visits as a start date and still keep the absences less than 270 days. But if 2 or 3 days is too short then it would be pointless working out the fine detail.[/quote]

Absolutely you are right then there is no need to work it out. but there is possibilites to apply earlier then the oct 2011 unless ouside uk stay is not more than 270.

cctv_man
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Post by cctv_man » Sun May 30, 2010 12:44 pm

mrlookforward wrote:Plus there is another point too. In section 2.1 of the form An theay ask

Enter the day you first arrived with a view to staying in the UK on a long-term basis, and the airport or seaport through which you then entered.

Now for sure the date of any short visit entry cannot be mentioned there, hence op cant rely on any of those entries.
mrlookforward pleas read sec 2.3 of this link carefully. thanks

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

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Post by John » Sun May 30, 2010 12:46 pm

my visits in 2008 are as follow

january 27th to 29th ... then out of UK for 27 days, until
feb 26th to 28th ... then out of UK for 41 days, until
april 10th to 12 april ... then out of uk for 23 days, until
may 6th to 9th ... then out of UK for 48 days, until
june 27th to 29th ... then out of UK for 5 days, until
july 5th to 7th ... then out of UK for 34 days, until
agust 11th to 14th ... then out of UK for 51 days, until

and then i moved here in 5th of october permanantly, after that i went holiday for 4 week in march this year. ... equals say 27 days out the the UK
I total that to 256 days out the UK ..... under 270 days. I have just checked the calendar for January 2011, and see that 27th January is a Thursday. So if you aim to get 28th January 2008 as the start of your 3-year qualifying date. That means that end date needs to be Thursday 27th January 2011, which means that either you need to post the application using Special Delivery on Wednesday 26th January 2011, or go to an NCS office that day ... and get an assurance that it will be posted that day to UKBA in Liverpool.
John

cctv_man
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Post by cctv_man » Sun May 30, 2010 12:50 pm

John wrote:
my visits in 2008 are as follow

january 27th to 29th ... then out of UK for 27 days, until
feb 26th to 28th ... then out of UK for 41 days, until
april 10th to 12 april ... then out of uk for 23 days, until
may 6th to 9th ... then out of UK for 48 days, until
june 27th to 29th ... then out of UK for 5 days, until
july 5th to 7th ... then out of UK for 34 days, until
agust 11th to 14th ... then out of UK for 51 days, until

and then i moved here in 5th of october permanantly, after that i went holiday for 4 week in march this year. ... equals say 27 days out the the UK

I total that to 256 days out the UK ..... under 270 days. I have just checked the calendar for January 2011, and see that 27th January is a Thursday. So if you aim to get 28th January 2008 as the start of your 3-year qualifying date. That means that end date needs to be Thursday 27th January 2011, which means that either you need to post the application using Special Delivery on Wednesday 26th January 2011, or go to an NCS office that day ... and get an assurance that it will be posted that day to UKBA in Liverpool.
yeah thats great i have worked out the same date and yes i will carefully manage this matter coz i live in scotand and NCS are not busy like england i will try my best to that. do u think i need a services of good lawyer to present my case? anywau thanks for you help and other members of this forum.
Last edited by cctv_man on Sun May 30, 2010 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mrlookforward
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Post by mrlookforward » Sun May 30, 2010 12:51 pm

Thanks,

Yes, I stand corrected on this.

cctv_man
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Post by cctv_man » Sun May 30, 2010 12:53 pm

mrlookforward wrote:Thanks,

Yes, I stand corrected on this.
ok thats good.

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Post by John » Sun May 30, 2010 1:16 pm

do u think i need a services of good lawyer to present my case?
Not if you have good proof of your days in the UK. But do you? Were you living in Ireland, when making those visits to the UK? If so, what proof do you have that you were in the UK when you say you were here?
John

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Post by cctv_man » Sun May 30, 2010 1:30 pm

John wrote:
do u think i need a services of good lawyer to present my case?
Not if you have good proof of your days in the UK. But do you? Were you living in Ireland, when making those visits to the UK? If so, what proof do you have that you were in the UK when you say you were here?
well as u know its common travel area and there are no immigration stamps on the passport whenever i entered to the uk but i do have some of the bording cards and some of the Itinerary of the tickets (online booking reference from past 5 year) and whenever i went back to dublin they stamped my passport.

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Post by Wanderer » Sun May 30, 2010 2:17 pm

John wrote:Wanderer, we are not talking about visa applications here. So any rule about a 10-year Long Residence application is irrelevant.
Yeah I know, I was just highlighting how UKBA applies different conditions and isn't consistent.
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Post by John » Sun May 30, 2010 3:06 pm

For the record, what is your nationality? And if you are a Visa National, did you have a valid visa to visit the UK?

And as regards the visit late January 2008, do you have proof that you were definitely in the UK during that time?
John

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Post by Wanderer » Sun May 30, 2010 3:08 pm

John wrote:For the record, what is your nationality? And if you are a Visa National, did you have a valid visa to visit the UK?

And as regards the visit late January 2008, do you have proof that you were definitely in the UK during that time?
I wondered that John, edited my post cos I keep coming out with crap at the moment!
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cctv_man
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Post by cctv_man » Sun May 30, 2010 3:20 pm

John wrote:For the record, what is your nationality? And if you are a Visa National, did you have a valid visa to visit the UK?

And as regards the visit late January 2008, do you have proof that you were definitely in the UK during that time?
yes i am visa national and yes i had valid visit visa that time (issued from dublin for 5 year) for the proof i have travel itinerary (raynair email) and alos i can provide credit card statement which i used for booking the online ticket.

I also met my lawyer during those days for my settlement consultation.

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Post by John » Sun May 30, 2010 4:36 pm

cctv_man, undoubtedly supply that proof, that you were physically in the UK during those dates in January 2008.

Wanderer, the more I think about it there are so many, well, let's say odd features about UKBA. For example, as regards visa applications in the UK, the legislation is clear that if the application is posted it is the date of posting that counts as the date of application. Whereas for citizenship applications it is the date of receipt by UKBA that counts as the date of application.

Bizarre that the legislation affecting one organisation, UKBA, should be so different as regards two different aspects of its work.
John

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