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Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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Spot123
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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by Spot123 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:31 pm

Hi All,
Please can someone advise me.
I'm British by Naturalisation, my wife and daughter hold ILR (Malaysian Citizens) I have a new born who born in Malaysia and I have registered him as Malaysian citizen and I would like him to hold Malaysian Passport. I hope I'm entitle to apply for 'COE' for my new born, I wonder if I can apply 'COE' in UK if my baby traveled with 'on arrival visa' as Malaysians are permitted to stay in UK for 6months from the arrival date

Any help and advise are much appreciated. Thank you in advance

Spot123
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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by Spot123 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:44 pm

Dear Seniors,

Please can someone able to advise to my query above?

Thanks

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CR001
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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by CR001 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:52 pm

Spot123 wrote:Dear Seniors,

Please can someone able to advise to my query above?

Thanks
Yes you can apply for Right of Abode or Certificate of Entitlement. Ideally you should apply before the child travels.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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Spot123
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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by Spot123 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:36 pm

Thanks CR001

I want my family to return to UK by September due to my daughter's nursery. I think if I apply 'COE' in Malaysia the processing time might delay their travel so I prefer applying in UK

I do understand that applying in Malaysia is ideal however, I prefer applying in UK as long as the application is valid. Please can you share your view on this?

Thanks in advance :)

Indguru90
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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by Indguru90 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:57 pm

Spot123 wrote:Thanks CR001

I want my family to return to UK by September due to my daughter's nursery. I think if I apply 'COE' in Malaysia the processing time might delay their travel so I prefer applying in UK

I do understand that applying in Malaysia is ideal however, I prefer applying in UK as long as the application is valid. Please can you share your view on this?

Thanks in advance :)
I am proceeding on the assumption that your new-born was born after your were naturalised. As he was born in Malaysia, your son is automatically a British citizen by descent (British Nationality Act 1981, s.2(1)(a)). Technically, if your child wished to travel to the UK, he must have either (i) a British citizen passport or (ii) a certificate of entitlement to the right of abode (COE) in his Malaysian passport (Immigration Act 1971, s.3(9)(e)).

Strictly speaking, a person with the right of abode cannot be granted leave to enter (whether in the form of entry clearance or a stamp in the passport at the port of entry; see Immigration Act 1971 s.1(1); Immigration Rules r.7A; Policy Manual ROA18). So again strictly speaking, your new-born child cannot get an "on arrival visa" (what you mean is leave to enter) as they are exempt from immigration control under the Immigration Act.

Now, as a matter of Border Force operational practice, a person whom an immigration officer (IO) presumes to have the right of abode but who cannot prove this by producing a UK passport or COE will normally be asked to wait around for a bit while the IO makes some further inquiries. In practice, it may be decided to grant the child notional "leave" in his Malaysian passport (though this is technically not possible, as outlined above), or the child may be admitted without obtaining notional "leave". It is conceivable that the IO at the desk won't grasp the situation, but you shouldn't count on it. If you, as a British passport holder, travel with your ILR wife and a new-born child with nothing other than a Malaysian passport, the assumption is that the child is a British citizen and must have documentation to prove this.

In summary: from a legal perspective, you really should apply for the COE in Malaysia. However, you will be aware that an out-of-country COE application costs a whopping £423. The in-country application isn't much cheaper, at £321. What is stopping you from applying for a full passport for your child who is, as outlined in the first paragraph, a British citizen like yourself? That would set you back a "mere" £53 (plus courier fee). You should not assume that obtaining a COE is going to be more straightforward than a passport...

I am aware that Malaysia does not allow dual citizenship as a general rule. However, the problem is that your child is a British citizen, whether or not he has a UK passport. And of course, if he did not have British citizenship, he would not be entitled to a COE. If your real concern is the Malaysian authorities becoming aware of your child's dual nationality, won't a COE in his MALAYSIAN passport be even more of a signal than his having a second passport? I don't quite understand the rationale here...

But to answer your substantive question: of course your application would be VALID if made in the UK. But you are very likely to face an issue at the port of entry when you come back from Malaysia.

Spot123
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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by Spot123 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:39 pm

Hi Indguru90

Thank you for the detailed response

Due to unknown processing timeline for 'COE' application I'm reluctant to apply from Malaysia as my elder daughter starting her school this September in UK
"I am aware that Malaysia does not allow dual citizenship as a general rule. However, the problem is that your child is a British citizen, whether or not he has a UK passport. And of course, if he did not have British citizenship, he would not be entitled to a COE. If your real concern is the Malaysian authorities becoming aware of your child's dual nationality, won't a COE in his MALAYSIAN passport be even more of a signal than his having a second passport? I don't quite understand the rationale here..."
Above is valid point - whilst we registering the child as Malaysian the office wasn't sure on this point. Finally the decision was made based on the child's mother status. I think that applying British passport would triggers the Malaysian authorities which might lead to terminate Malaysian citizenship having COE might cause issue, but so far it's unknown!

Thanks again!

Indguru90
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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by Indguru90 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:45 pm

Spot123 wrote:Hi Indguru90

Thank you for the detailed response

Due to unknown processing timeline for 'COE' application I'm reluctant to apply from Malaysia as my elder daughter starting her school this September in UK
"I am aware that Malaysia does not allow dual citizenship as a general rule. However, the problem is that your child is a British citizen, whether or not he has a UK passport. And of course, if he did not have British citizenship, he would not be entitled to a COE. If your real concern is the Malaysian authorities becoming aware of your child's dual nationality, won't a COE in his MALAYSIAN passport be even more of a signal than his having a second passport? I don't quite understand the rationale here..."
Above is valid point - whilst we registering the child as Malaysian the office wasn't sure on this point. Finally the decision was made based on the child's mother status. I think that applying British passport would triggers the Malaysian authorities which might lead to terminate Malaysian citizenship having COE might cause issue, but so far it's unknown!

Thanks again!
Hi Spot123

As it happens, Her Majesty's Passport Office has specific internal guidance regarding Malaysian/UK dual nationals. The guidance reads as follows: "Malaysian citizenship laws provide that Malaysian citizens who voluntarily exercise their rights to another citizenship which gives the passport holder of that country freedom of movement and no conditions/restrictions on employment may be deprived of Malaysian citizenship. Please note that Malaysian British Overseas Citizen passport holders may not benefit from this if the BOC passport issued has restrictions on movement and employment. Such people can hold both Malaysian and BOC passports simultaneously and will not be deprived of their Malaysian citizenship."

You'll obviously be much better informed about the practice in Malaysia, but if the above correctly represents Malaysian law, voluntary exercice of one's rights to another citizenship giving the holder freedom of movement in the UK includes obtaining a COE. There's absolutely no difference from a legal perspective whether you get a COE or a UK passport, in either case your newborn is liable indefinitely to have his Malaysian citizenship revoked. Bit of a catch 22, unfortunately. Just fyi, HMPO does not contact other passport authorities when you obtain a UK passport, so it's not from the UK Government that the Malaysian authorities would learn that your child has British citizenship/acquired a UK passport/COE. Hope that helps.

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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by karen313 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:54 pm

Hi Spot123,

I almost got the same situation with you.
Any updates on your COE application for your new born baby after you all arrived UK?

My son was born in UK after his father got his ILR, however he lived in Malaysia and hold Malaysian passport.
Currently, we brought him to UK without getting COE and then we were questioned by the immigration officer. After further investigation by the officer, finally we are allowed to enter however his passport has been stamped with quote"entry valid for 6 months".

I know this is our mistake that we are not aware that we should get COE before entering UK.
I plan to apply COE for him in UK as currently we are unable fly back to Malaysia because he already start primary school. However, due to the processing time may take up to 6 months and I wondering whether my son will consider 'over stay' after 6 months time if we unable obtain COE before that.

I really regret that didn't checked properly and simply listen to my husband that my British born son is free to enter UK. Now I still can't decide whether should apply COE here or take him back to Malaysia before the 6 months period. Leaving UK and apply COE in Malaysia will stop his schooling at least for a few months and school may not allowed.

Appreciated if anyone here can share your thought on my case.

Thank you.

Spot123
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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by Spot123 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:11 pm

Hi Karen,

My family are arriving UK next month, I have not applied for COE as we're planning to apply in UK after they've arrived

I do aware of processing timeline/immigration queries so we prepared for the consequence

I don't think the applicant is considered as over stayer if there is pending application in process. I would advice to wait for the decision, unless you have an emergency travel

On separate note - If you son born in UK, how did he managed to travel to Malaysia? did you apply for Malaysian passport in UK

Thanks

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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by Babajee85 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:49 pm

karen313 wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:54 pm
Hi Spot123,

I almost got the same situation with you.
Any updates on your COE application for your new born baby after you all arrived UK?

My son was born in UK after his father got his ILR, however he lived in Malaysia and hold Malaysian passport.
Currently, we brought him to UK without getting COE and then we were questioned by the immigration officer. After further investigation by the officer, finally we are allowed to enter however his passport has been stamped with quote"entry valid for 6 months".

I know this is our mistake that we are not aware that we should get COE before entering UK.
I plan to apply COE for him in UK as currently we are unable fly back to Malaysia because he already start primary school. However, due to the processing time may take up to 6 months and I wondering whether my son will consider 'over stay' after 6 months time if we unable obtain COE before that.

I really regret that didn't checked properly and simply listen to my husband that my British born son is free to enter UK. Now I still can't decide whether should apply COE here or take him back to Malaysia before the 6 months period. Leaving UK and apply COE in Malaysia will stop his schooling at least for a few months and school may not allowed.

Appreciated if anyone here can share your thought on my case.

Thank you.
How did you manage for your son to arrive in UK :shock: without any CoE/any Visa...Didn't they ask you at the Malaysian airport for the document proof for UK Visa before boarding into the plane.

vinny
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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by vinny » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:04 pm

Malaysians are non-visa nationals for the purposes of visits. However, it's moot if the child is British and may apply for a CoE-RoA from within the UK.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by Babajee85 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:57 pm

vinny wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:04 pm
Malaysians are non-visa nationals for the purposes of visits. However, it's moot if the child is British and may apply for a CoE-RoA from within the UK.
Thanks for clarification ...

I have one question :

Do we need to provide the Orginal Naturalisation Certificate (Is there a requirement) with CoA-RoA application ?

vinny
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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by vinny » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:51 am

There is a requirement to adequately prove that the child is British.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

waikatodave
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New Zealand

Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by waikatodave » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:14 pm

I am having to reapply for my ROA due to an expiring NZ passport. Is anyone aware if this would take less time than an initial application. When I first applied 4 years ago it took about 20 days from confirmation of application to dispatch email. This application was when I was living in Australia, so the visa was issued in Manila(?)
I reapplied in November 2017, received my confirmation of application and payment taken on 1st December 2017, but have had no updates since then. I am factoring in Xmas delays, but by reading through the forum I may be in for quite a wait.

Also are the any government benefits or assistance available - I am running out of things to sell :/

Cheers

David

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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by Jonny31t » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:16 pm

Babajee85 wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:49 pm
karen313 wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:54 pm
Hi Spot123,

I almost got the same situation with you.
Any updates on your COE application for your new born baby after you all arrived UK?

My son was born in UK after his father got his ILR, however he lived in Malaysia and hold Malaysian passport.
Currently, we brought him to UK without getting COE and then we were questioned by the immigration officer. After further investigation by the officer, finally we are allowed to enter however his passport has been stamped with quote"entry valid for 6 months".

I know this is our mistake that we are not aware that we should get COE before entering UK.
I plan to apply COE for him in UK as currently we are unable fly back to Malaysia because he already start primary school. However, due to the processing time may take up to 6 months and I wondering whether my son will consider 'over stay' after 6 months time if we unable obtain COE before that.

I really regret that didn't checked properly and simply listen to my husband that my British born son is free to enter UK. Now I still can't decide whether should apply COE here or take him back to Malaysia before the 6 months period. Leaving UK and apply COE in Malaysia will stop his schooling at least for a few months and school may not allowed.

Appreciated if anyone here can share your thought on my case.

Thank you.
How did you manage for your son to arrive in UK :shock: without any CoE/any Visa...Didn't they ask you at the Malaysian airport for the document proof for UK Visa before boarding into the plane.
I'm not sure if you're still monitoring this - I think Malaysian children born to foreign nationals are allowed to be a citizen of both until they turn 18 where they have to decide for themselves.

I'm also curious to how you manage to get on the plane though - I had the impression it's not that easy these days.

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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by bilviva » Fri May 25, 2018 4:12 pm

waikatodave wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:14 pm
I am having to reapply for my ROA due to an expiring NZ passport. Is anyone aware if this would take less time than an initial application. When I first applied 4 years ago it took about 20 days from confirmation of application to dispatch email. This application was when I was living in Australia, so the visa was issued in Manila(?)
I reapplied in November 2017, received my confirmation of application and payment taken on 1st December 2017, but have had no updates since then. I am factoring in Xmas delays, but by reading through the forum I may be in for quite a wait.

Also are the any government benefits or assistance available - I am running out of things to sell :/

Cheers

David
Hi David,

I reapplied my ROA in April, it has been more than a month from confirmation of application email. I am wondering if you got back your passport already? If yes, when?
It is a little worrying as 5 years ago when I applied it took exactly 21 days for it to come back to me.
Please advise.

Thank you.
Bilqis

ric1982
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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by ric1982 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:56 am

Hi,

I was wondering if someone could help me with renewal of ROA application?

Its for 5 year old daughter who is Indian citizen (Born in 2013). Got her new Indian passport hence need to make fresh application for ROA.
Father and mother British Citizen.

- Do we need to send old passport with the application?
- Do we need to send marriage certificate with the application (Its an Indian Marriage certificate in English)?
- Section 3 declaration (who needs to sign) ?
- Do we need to send prepaid envelope for return of the documents?

Also what are the current timelines?

Thanks

inthewaitingroom
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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode and the NHS

Post by inthewaitingroom » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:12 pm

I had the cert. of entitlement to RofA, which expired with my passport. Have renewed the passport (Cdn) and resubmitted an application for the certificate to be put in my new passport. All is well there. Last one took 10 weeks to process, so if timing is similar would hope to get my passport back by mid-August.

I just received a call today from my Health Centre saying that since the old RofA is expired, I can't be covered by NHS until my passport with new cert. if received and they have a copy of it.

Any NHS services, including medications, will have to be paid for privately.

Has anyone else run into this? I couldn't see anything in any of the RofA postings that referred to NHS.

vinny
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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by vinny » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:37 am

I think that they are wrong.

A Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode doesn't confer the Right of Abode, but is just evidence/confirmation of the status, similar to a British passport. Assuming that the holder was rightly entitled to the status, the Right of Abode doesn't suddenly cease on expiry of the Certificate.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Mon123
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Re: Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode

Post by Mon123 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:34 am

Hi my cert of ent to the ROA has expired
In year 2002 I am in the uk ever since
I’m looking to apply for uk passport
Would passport office accept my roa on a expired passport as one of the document
Or do I need a new COE application then apply
For uk passport and by the way I was born abroad after 1983 to a British father

And also is roa status confirmation that you are
British regardless wether you hold uk passport or not?
Many thanks

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