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citizenship and driving convictions

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, Zimba

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skstorm
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citizenship and driving convictions

Post by skstorm » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:00 pm

Hello can anyone advise if they have received citizenship with driving offences and if so what were they.
thank you

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:08 pm

Won't it be simpler to write your traffic offence and query if your application will be approved or refused based on associated rules ... rather than asking others, who have had an offence and have naturalised, to write down all the details for your pleasure?

Alternatively, why not make an effort to search the forum for information already posted by members.
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Gyfrinachgar
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Post by Gyfrinachgar » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:50 pm

The thread Citizenship and Traffic offence should give you a very good starting point for any related questions. One page 3 you find a list of commonly asked questions, please feel free to add any unanswered questions or your suggestions there.

skstorm
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Post by skstorm » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:49 pm

Shushdmehta,
I am not sure what I have done to offend you but you have made certain assumptions from my post, incorrect assumptions and based your reply on that. I am offended that you feel I would gain pleasure listening to the details of someone else's misfortunes in obtaining convictions that would suggest I had a somewhat sick nature!!
You also assume that I have not searched this forum which I can assure you that I have several times a day and have read most of the connected posts on here.

Gyfrinachgar thank you for your suggestion, I have been following the thread by Friend 12345 very closely, they obtained citizenship with an LC20, who also states that they received court costs and not a fine which would suggest no unspent period to me and therefore no issue in obtaining citizenship?

I am happy to state my circumstances,

I am a British Citizen and my husband is eligible to apply for citizenship in December based on the 3 year rule. back in early 2009 he was stopped by the police for being on a mobile phone while he was driving. They were about to issue a FPN when they queried his licence and found he was driving on an international licence after 12 months (I make no excuses for this it was an oversight on our fault as he usually went home each year therefore renewing the 12 months, this year the home office took 6 months to renew his visa leaving him unable to go home in the college holidays and we completely forgot about the impact to his driving licence). Needless to say my husband already had a provisional with an intention of taking the test so by the time we went to court my husband had passed the UK driving test and obtained a british licence thereby showing it would not happen again. he received
CU80 3 points and £60 fine for being on mobile phone (same as FPN)
LC20 £35 fine.

Having read LOTS of threads and the UKBA guidelines I am aware that a fine takes 5 years to become spent, however I was unsure as to whether this was one conviction with 2 offences as they were both from the same incident or 2 convictions.

I know officially this is supposed to be a refusal however we obtained ILR earlier this year with both convictions without any issues without even knowing about the conviction rule change. My husband has no other issues or problems with regards to the application, other than that it should be quite straightforward. He has been working and paying tax pretty much since he was allowed to work on the spouse visa.

Back to my original question I was only actually wondering if anyone had actually obtained citizenship with convictions particularly mobile phone ones from court that were unspent hence my request for what the conviction was. I wanted to know if anyone had actually managed it thats all, as I have been unable to find many posts on here except the aforementioned one by Friend 12345 about successes.

I also understand about the changes to the LASPO bill which gained royal assent in May this year and due to be implemented in April and being a positive person my own views on that are that guidelines are likely to come out nearer the time but I would like to think that although the home office wants to see all the convictions, they are more likely to consider them on regards to the spent/unspent times within the new guidelines.

We are quite anxious for an early BC decision as a British Passport would help no end in the year with other tasks that need to be done, so my husband is considering taking the plunge and trying it regardless as he has been advised if ILR was OK BC should also be ok, I am more sceptical and was looking for any positive sign at all that it may be possible, therefore asking if it had been done by anyone on here.

I am extremely sorry if you have taken my thread as a timewaster because you felt I could not be bothered reading the other threads but as you can see I am hoping for some confidence building from this forum that on occassion it has been done an would love to hear from anyone that has been successful in similar circumstances. The support would be much appreciated right now as we are going through a particularly stressful time.

Gyfrinachgar
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Post by Gyfrinachgar » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:19 pm

From your original (very short and ambiguous) posting your intentions were unclear at best, and I understand that Shushdmehta was taken aback.

However, your explanations now make the matter much clearer, and I agree that this is an interesting question. The problem everywhere is that people prefer to report successes and tend to omit reporting failures. That is, for example, a very serious problem in sciences and causing substantial bias and the multiple replication of doomed research efforts. The situation is very similar here, and I therefore agree that it would be interesting to have a thread were people report failure in acquiring BC based on convictions - always assuming that people use it in that form. Since this is an anonymous forum, nobody needs to fear embarrassment, while such a thread could substantially add to our understanding of HO operating procedures - in other words, when an application might be borderline okay, and when it is absolutely pointless.

skstorm
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Post by skstorm » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:53 pm

I have actually found it more the other way round. There is actually very little about outcomes, rather lots of questions being asked on the subject but there are a couple of posts with regards to rejections, however I haven't seen many successes. Now, is this down to the fact there haven't been any successes or due to other factors? I can completely understand that once someone's immigration journey is complete they have perhaps left the forum and since BC is really the final stage that could mean permanently leave the forum unlike ILR where they will possibly stick around til BC is granted. You see lots of posts regarding successful ILR apps.

Thereby reporting could be heavily influenced towards either success or failure.
It may be that all the posts are negative and with regards to failed applications where people are searching further advice, whereas the successful ones will understandably be over the moon and have no further need to log on to the forum therefore not reporting the success.

On the other hand we may hear very little about failed applciations as people do not particularly want to report bad news and instead what we actually see is lots and lots of questions on the same topic without any real conclusions.

I for one would definitely love to hear from absolutely any successful applications but I also agree that to get the bigger picture it would be good to hear about anyone who has had the application refused due to similar convictions and especialy if they managed to get it overturned. As Gyfrinachgar has mentioned all posts are to an extent annonymous and we are not here to judge but you may just help someone who is wondering about taking the chance to make a decision.

helpmepleasee
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Post by helpmepleasee » Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:27 am

Based on the above and considering he got ilr granted without any problems shouldn't it be relatively straight forward for him to obtain bc ?


I say this because when he obtained his ilr, he must still had these 2 convictions ? If it had been a problem then surely ho would have refused ?


or the guidelines and rules different for bc ? Correct me if I'm wrong senior members

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:16 am

skstorm wrote:back in early 2009 he was stopped by the police for being on a mobile phone while he was driving. They were about to issue a FPN when they queried his licence and found he was driving on an international licence after 12 months (I make no excuses for this it was an oversight on our fault as he usually went home each year therefore renewing the 12 months, this year the home office took 6 months to renew his visa leaving him unable to go home in the college holidays and we completely forgot about the impact to his driving licence). Needless to say my husband already had a provisional with an intention of taking the test so by the time we went to court my husband had passed the UK driving test and obtained a british licence thereby showing it would not happen again. he received
CU80 3 points and £60 fine for being on mobile phone (same as FPN)
LC20 £35 fine.
Offences committed when driving on an international driving permit are handled by court as a matter of procedure. Court issued FPN in such circumstances doesn't necessarily mean an "unspent conviction". I have mentioned this fact in the topic by friend12345 and so has Gyfrinachgar explained this fact in his post in the topic!!!

Two FPNs, issued on the same date, have no relevance when assessing an application for naturalisation to be submitted 12 months after the date the FPNs were issued.

Contrary to popular belief that every case of court fine leads to unspent conviction and a rehabilitation period of 5 years, several posts available on the forum are a testament that that is not the case.

e.g. -
Motoring FPNs in Scotland are dealt with by the procurator fiscal (an officer of the court) - but this does not mean that a fine imposed by procurator fiscal leads to an unspent conviction. Unfortunately, people jump to such a conclusion based on what they read in other peoples' topics!!

Explaining individual circumstances helps others to understand the situation and provide you with explanations / suggestions / answers which, IMHO, is a more sensible way of finding solutions to one's queries - rather than coming to a conclusion on the basis of comparison of your circumstances with other peoples' experiences / successes / failures, specially so when one does not have adequate knowledge about the issue at hand.

Since April 2011, requirements for settlement and naturalisation are broadly same on the issue of "unspent conviction". If your husband applied for settlement after April 2011 and was granted settled status there can be no stronger evidence of the fact that your husband does not have an unspent conviction against him.


BTW, the 12 month period that allows a UK resident to drive on an international driving permit commences when the person enters UK as a resident the first time and ends 12 months thereafter. This 12 month period cannot be renewed or restarted by travelling back home and getting the international driving permit renewed - unless one is absent from the UK for more than 6 months (which resets the residency period).
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

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Casa
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Post by Casa » Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:05 am

I was about to step in to mention your misunderstanding of the International driving licence rule and see that sushdmehta has beaten me to it. I'm surprised that his car insurance provider didn't pick up on this.

skstorm
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Post by skstorm » Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:48 pm

I didn't know about the driving rule I just went along with what hubby told me, however when he was pulled up We took the car off the road until he had passed a UK test so that I could ensure he was driving on a legal licence. I tend to be a bit more wary about things now and check things out more, hence its me on this forum finding out what I can. Although I have to admit I never really bothered any further with the driving on an international licence as he then had a british one.

both offences were given in court and attracted a fine therefore will have the 5 year rule, whilst the mobile phone may have been treated as a FPN by the courts by the sentence they gave for it (and I am hoping the home office see that and treat it the same) however I am pretty sure that we can't class the LC20 as anything other than a conviction, one I am hopng they may ignore.

Yes both of these offences were listed on the ILR. However looking on the forum there are lots of people getting through ILR with convictions but you don't see the same number getting through BC so whether they take it more seriously at this stage or not I don't know.

SONAKSHI
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CU80

Post by SONAKSHI » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:53 am

Hi I have got CU 80 and 3 points in September 2011 for driving while using a mobile phone. Did not have to go to court. Sent my licence by post and also paid the fine by phone the very next day. I know that a number of people have gone through with the ILR with CU 80. I would be applying after 13th December for the ILR when the new rules are in place. What are my chances. I would be applying for BC shortly after that.
Experienced members- Views please.
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SONAKSHI
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Post by SONAKSHI » Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:07 pm

Senior members. Your views requested. Many thanks in Advance.
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Gyfrinachgar
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Re: CU80

Post by Gyfrinachgar » Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:15 pm

SONAKSHI wrote:Hi I have got CU 80 and 3 points in September 2011 for driving while using a mobile phone. Did not have to go to court. Sent my licence by post and also paid the fine by phone the very next day. I know that a number of people have gone through with the ILR with CU 80. I would be applying after 13th December for the ILR when the new rules are in place. What are my chances.
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