ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Citizenship - Discretion

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

Locked
apshma2
Newly Registered
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:52 am

Citizenship - Discretion

Post by apshma2 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:15 am

Hi everybody, This forum is amazing – I am surprised how late I discovered it! My case maybe peculiar in my application to citizenship and would greatly appreciate member’s views on this.

Background: I got my ILR (post 5 yrs on WP+HSMP+Tier1) in June 2011. In August 2011, I left the country to do my MBA in France and got back in August 2012 for full time employment in the UK.

Specifics: I was partially funded by my previous employer for my education and I have a letter from them saying that MBA was mandatory for my work. They would have fully funded me, but before starting my MBA I got an offer from another firm to join them after my MBA. That offer letter states that my job is subject to completion of my MBA and they also paid money for completion for my MBA. I joined them after completing MBA in August 2012.

Question: Obviously I don’t qualify the 90 days requirement for BC. But do these support documents (MBA requirement letter from my past employer and contract from my current employer mentioning MBA as a conditional requirement and sign-on payment for my education) qualify for discretion?

Please let me know if you think I have reasonable grounds to apply for the citizenship or do you think I should wait for 1 year. Also I was thinking of maybe applying via a solicitor – do you think it makes sense or I can just apply? or wait?

Many thanks for your valuable inputs in advance!

Jambo
Respected Guru
Posts: 8734
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:31 am

Post by Jambo » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:35 am

I assume you are not married to a British citizen.

Wait for 9 months (or until the absences in the last 12 months are less than 90 days).

Having been away for 1 year, do you still meet the requirement of less than 450 days of absence during the 5 years before the application? Note that every absence counts (business or private travel).

The naturalisation application from is not difficult to fill in and the supporting evidence required is minimal so I would think the majority of people don't need professional assistance.

Gyfrinachgar
Member of Standing
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:32 pm
Location: Wales

Re: Citizenship - Discretion

Post by Gyfrinachgar » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:36 am

Problem with "discretion" is that it is very relative. One caseworker might follow your line of reasoning, another might not. Discretion is not a set of iron-clad criteria. However, since you have been out of the country for such a long period in the final year of your qualifying period, I would assume that you chances are minimal at this time. The handbook states that absences exceeding 180 days should only be disregarded "in the most exceptional circumstances" - I would strongly advise against risking £850 on such an outside chance.

apshma2
Newly Registered
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:52 am

Post by apshma2 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:11 pm

Many thanks! Yeah - maybe I should wait for 9 more months. I was actually banking upon the support letters from the employers that my leave was a business requirement and that I was paid by them for the education.

cs95tdg
Diamond Member
Posts: 3152
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:55 pm
Location: London

Post by cs95tdg » Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:41 pm

apshma2 wrote:Many thanks! Yeah - maybe I should wait for 9 more months. I was actually banking upon the support letters from the employers that my leave was a business requirement and that I was paid by them for the education.
I would also suggest that you take a look at the other requirements for naturalisation if you have not already done so. http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=95747
One of the key questions related to absences is below...
Jambo wrote:Having been away for 1 year, do you still meet the requirement of less than 450 days of absence during the 5 years before the application? Note that every absence counts (business or private travel).

trs2011
- thin ice -
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:24 pm

Re: Citizenship - Discretion

Post by trs2011 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:47 pm

apshma2 wrote:Hi everybody, This forum is amazing – I am surprised how late I discovered it! My case maybe peculiar in my application to citizenship and would greatly appreciate member’s views on this.

Background: I got my ILR (post 5 yrs on WP+HSMP+Tier1) in June 2011. In August 2011, I left the country to do my MBA in France and got back in August 2012 for full time employment in the UK.

Specifics: I was partially funded by my previous employer for my education and I have a letter from them saying that MBA was mandatory for my work. They would have fully funded me, but before starting my MBA I got an offer from another firm to join them after my MBA. That offer letter states that my job is subject to completion of my MBA and they also paid money for completion for my MBA. I joined them after completing MBA in August 2012.

Question: Obviously I don’t qualify the 90 days requirement for BC. But do these support documents (MBA requirement letter from my past employer and contract from my current employer mentioning MBA as a conditional requirement and sign-on payment for my education) qualify for discretion?

Please let me know if you think I have reasonable grounds to apply for the citizenship or do you think I should wait for 1 year. Also I was thinking of maybe applying via a solicitor – do you think it makes sense or I can just apply? or wait?

Many thanks for your valuable inputs in advance!
I would advise you to wait for another year before applying because this discretion thingy is very very relative as somebody else has said . These caseworkers can be absolute stupid with it , so do not count on them on this one .
I came across some stories in July in the Daily Mail this year , where some soldiers in the british army were refused citizenship because one of them did not meet the 5 years criteria as he was serving in Afghanistan . He requested discretion because he was on national duty but surprisingly , the HO said he did not meet the required residency of being in UK 5 yrs prior to applying . If someone is refused whilst serving in such an honourable role , what are the chances the HO will take your side ? They can be idiots these guys , so to be safe , wait until next year .

mcovet
BANNED
Posts: 494
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:00 pm

Post by mcovet » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:51 pm

the point Jambo is making is that having been away for 360 days, even if you wait another year to avoid the 90-days absence, what about the previous 4 years dating back to August 2008? Were you out of the country for less than 100 days between August 2008 and August 2011? If yes, then you qualify, if no- then you have more waiting to do!

Just list all the absences in the past 5 years to be clear.

All the best!

Gyfrinachgar
Member of Standing
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:32 pm
Location: Wales

Post by Gyfrinachgar » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:01 am

mcovet wrote:what about the previous 4 years dating back to August 2008? Were you out of the country for less than 100 days between August 2008 and August 2011? If yes, then you qualify, if no- then you have more waiting to do!
True, but even if not: the leeway for the whole 5 year period is much, much higher. A caseworker can apply much more discretion for that period, especially if the applicant has established home, family and a substantial part of the estate here. Since there is further evidence that the absence was a work-related one-off event based upon a requirement by the employer, I think there is sufficient ground for discretion; and application chances would be acceptable even if the 450 days requirement is exceeded (within reason). Would still be a gamble, but with reasonable chances.

james abani
Newly Registered
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:08 pm
Location: LEEDS
Contact:

DOES YEAR SPENT ON STUDENT VISA COUNT TOWARD APPLYING 4 BC?

Post by james abani » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:35 pm

i enter the uk in sept 2006 on a student visa and after completing my maters degree got 2 years post study work permit from 2007 to january 2009. but i got married to my eu partner in april 208 and applied for residence card later which was granted . i have since divorced and retain residence card on ROR . my marriage would have been 5 years in next year april. 1. can i apply for BC at that point or do i have to wait 1 year after that . 2.and also do i need to get payslips and evidence of exercsing treaty right by my ex partner to get a confirmation of PR by next year april?

apshma2
Newly Registered
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:52 am

Post by apshma2 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:33 am

Many thanks everybody for your responses.

I think the 450 days should be fine - i may exceed only by about 10 or 20 days and that too were work related and I have documenation for them (i used them for ILR as well, so it worked). I guess I will just wait for for 9 more monhts.

Thanks agian!

james abani
Newly Registered
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:08 pm
Location: LEEDS
Contact:

Re: DOES YEAR SPENT ON STUDENT VISA COUNT TOWARD APPLYING 4

Post by james abani » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:19 pm

james abani wrote:i enter the uk in sept 2006 on a student visa and after completing my maters degree got 2 years post study work permit from 2007 to january 2009. but i got married to my eu partner in april 208 and applied for residence card later which was granted . i have since divorced and retain residence card on ROR . my marriage would have been 5 years in next year april. 1. can i apply for BC at that point or do i have to wait 1 year after that . 2.and also do i need to get payslips and evidence of exercsing treaty right by my ex partner to get a confirmation of PR by next year april?

Locked
cron