General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Frou01 wrote: ↑

Mon May 25, 2020 8:45 pm

Lopand wrote: ↑

Mon May 25, 2020 7:17 pm

I want us all to not panic and get encouragement from the fact that at least on this forum not a single EU applicant with pending application has been asked to provide CSI, nor has been rejected for the lack of. Even more encouraging, a few EU applicants posted here that they've received approvals last week without being asked for CSI, even though they had applied based on their EU Settled Status and were students for a part of the time. This whole situation is very stressful, but we should focus on what we know reliably and keep hoping for the best.

Good luck for all of us!

Very well said. I like that.

Frou01 wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 4:57 pm

“ A Home Office spokesperson insisted there was no change to the guidance issued in 2018, saying: “These requirements are not new and have always been in place.

beaujam90 wrote: ↑

Mon May 25, 2020 11:45 pm

Frou01 wrote: ↑

Mon May 25, 2020 8:45 pm

Lopand wrote: ↑

Mon May 25, 2020 7:17 pm

I want us all to not panic and get encouragement from the fact that at least on this forum not a single EU applicant with pending application has been asked to provide CSI, nor has been rejected for the lack of. Even more encouraging, a few EU applicants posted here that they've received approvals last week without being asked for CSI, even though they had applied based on their EU Settled Status and were students for a part of the time. This whole situation is very stressful, but we should focus on what we know reliably and keep hoping for the best.

Good luck for all of us!

Very well said. I like that.

When you apply for the Permanent Residence card (DCPR) under the EU 2004/32/EC directive, the HO caseworker has absolutely no discretion (0% discretion) in he/her decision making. Because it's under the EU law.

The EU Settlement Scheme (Settled status) is under the UK immigration law, the caseworker can apply discretion in favour of the applicant who want to apply for Settled status.

The British citizenship law is part of the UK immigration law only. The caseworker can apply discretion in favour of the DCPR or Settled status holder applicants. The HO refusing discretion for the Settled Status holders is illegal and contradictory to the UK law. To acquire Settled status one must have 5 years lawful residence, the mire fact that one has Settled statusS is a proof that 5 year lawful residence has already been acquired. The EU regulation 2004/32/EC has been repealed by the UK parliament (with all the other EU laws).

Put it in other words, if you have Settled Status, the 5 years lawful requirement for applying for the BC is already acquired and you don't need to wait another 5 years to apply for the BC, otherwise it's discriminatory against the Settled status holders.

Frou01 wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 12:16 am

beaujam90 wrote: ↑

Mon May 25, 2020 11:45 pm

Frou01 wrote: ↑

Mon May 25, 2020 8:45 pm

Lopand wrote: ↑

Mon May 25, 2020 7:17 pm

I want us all to not panic and get encouragement from the fact that at least on this forum not a single EU applicant with pending application has been asked to provide CSI, nor has been rejected for the lack of. Even more encouraging, a few EU applicants posted here that they've received approvals last week without being asked for CSI, even though they had applied based on their EU Settled Status and were students for a part of the time. This whole situation is very stressful, but we should focus on what we know reliably and keep hoping for the best.

Good luck for all of us!

Very well said. I like that.

When you apply for the Permanent Residence card (DCPR) under the EU 2004/32/EC directive, the HO caseworker has absolutely no discretion (0% discretion) in he/her decision making. Because it's under the EU law.

The EU Settlement Scheme (Settled status) is under the UK immigration law, the caseworker can apply discretion in favour of the applicant who want to apply for Settled status.

The British citizenship law is part of the UK immigration law only. The caseworker can apply discretion in favour of the DCPR or Settled status holder applicants. The HO refusing discretion for the Settled Status holders is illegal and contradictory to the UK law. To acquire Settled status one must have 5 years lawful residence, the mire fact that one has Settled statusS is a proof that 5 year lawful residence has already been acquired. The EU regulation 2004/32/EC has been repealed by the UK parliament (with all the other EU laws).

Put it in other words, if you have Settled Status, the 5 years lawful requirement for applying for the BC is already acquired and you don't need to wait another 5 years to apply for the BC, otherwise it's discriminatory against the Settled status holders.

It just proving you haven’t read the guidance about naturalisation. There’s a section about discretion NOT Settled Status.
Besides I have seen many people being approved for citizenship who would have needed CSI.

It would be kind if you don’t make up your own interpretations and mix up facts.

Please feel free to read the guidance. I’m not interested in people tagging and involving me for speculations.
That’s not helpful.

ValenS wrote: ↑

Mon May 25, 2020 11:58 pm

So I understand 'prior to Settled Status' means in the 5 years time of the qualifying period for British Citizenship which I understand is from the date of British Citizenship application backwards, is it not?

AnotherUUID wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 3:06 pm

ValenS wrote: ↑

Mon May 25, 2020 11:58 pm

So I understand 'prior to Settled Status' means in the 5 years time of the qualifying period for British Citizenship which I understand is from the date of British Citizenship application backwards, is it not?

If you're referring to page 26 of the new guidance which instructs the caseworker to "assess whether the individual has been here lawfully during their 3 or 5 year residential period prior to pre-settled status or settled status", then yes, I think it's safe to say that this refers to any part of the 3 or 5y qualifying period for naturalisation which may have required CSI and falls before the date that the applicant acquired settled status via EU Settlement Scheme (as they would be exempt from CSI from the date of becoming settled).

For example, if one was to apply on 01/06/2020 via the 5y qualifying period, their 5y qualifying period for naturalisation starts from 01/06/2015. Such an applicant ought to have settled on or before 01/06/2019 as per the requirements. For simplicity, let's assume 01/06/2019. As a settled person, they would have been free from the CSI requirement from 01/06/2019 onwards. But if they spent any time as a student or self-sufficient between 01/06/2015 and 01/06/2019, they should provide evidence of having CSI for those periods in order to have been in the UK lawfully under EEA regulations.

However, as mentioned earlier, it's still unclear how CSI might tie into the GCR.

AnotherUUID wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 3:06 pm

ValenS wrote: ↑

Mon May 25, 2020 11:58 pm

So I understand 'prior to Settled Status' means in the 5 years time of the qualifying period for British Citizenship which I understand is from the date of British Citizenship application backwards, is it not?

If you're referring to page 26 of the new guidance which instructs the caseworker to "assess whether the individual has been here lawfully during their 3 or 5 year residential period prior to pre-settled status or settled status", then yes, I think it's safe to say that this refers to any part of the 3 or 5y qualifying period for naturalisation which may have required CSI and falls before the date that the applicant acquired settled status via EU Settlement Scheme (as they would be exempt from CSI from the date of becoming settled).

For example, if one was to apply on 01/06/2020 via the 5y qualifying period, their 5y qualifying period for naturalisation starts from 01/06/2015. Such an applicant ought to have settled on or before 01/06/2019 as per the requirements. For simplicity, let's assume 01/06/2019. As a settled person, they would have been free from the CSI requirement from 01/06/2019 onwards. But if they spent any time as a student or self-sufficient between 01/06/2015 and 01/06/2019, they should provide evidence of having CSI for those periods in order to have been in the UK lawfully under EEA regulations.

However, as mentioned earlier, it's still unclear how CSI might tie into the GCR.

beaujam90 wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 12:43 am

Frou01 wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 12:16 am

beaujam90 wrote: ↑

Mon May 25, 2020 11:45 pm

Frou01 wrote: ↑

Mon May 25, 2020 8:45 pm

Very well said. I like that.

Alright.

This sounds a bit different than the original reply.

I’m a full time employee and there’s a lot of employment I can provide.
I had times without work (and yes without CSI), but not just lazy to work, there have been exceptional circumstances I’m able to prove. That’s why I will try to go the route for discretion.

But that’s an attempt. no reassurance. I’m aware of this.


When you apply for the Permanent Residence card (DCPR) under the EU 2004/32/EC directive, the HO caseworker has absolutely no discretion (0% discretion) in he/her decision making. Because it's under the EU law.

The EU Settlement Scheme (Settled status) is under the UK immigration law, the caseworker can apply discretion in favour of the applicant who want to apply for Settled status.

The British citizenship law is part of the UK immigration law only. The caseworker can apply discretion in favour of the DCPR or Settled status holder applicants. The HO refusing discretion for the Settled Status holders is illegal and contradictory to the UK law. To acquire Settled status one must have 5 years lawful residence, the mire fact that one has Settled statusS is a proof that 5 year lawful residence has already been acquired. The EU regulation 2004/32/EC has been repealed by the UK parliament (with all the other EU laws).

Put it in other words, if you have Settled Status, the 5 years lawful requirement for applying for the BC is already acquired and you don't need to wait another 5 years to apply for the BC, otherwise it's discriminatory against the Settled status holders.

It just proving you haven’t read the guidance about naturalisation. There’s a section about discretion NOT Settled Status.
Besides I have seen many people being approved for citizenship who would have needed CSI.

It would be kind if you don’t make up your own interpretations and mix up facts.

Please feel free to read the guidance. I’m not interested in people tagging and involving me for speculations.
That’s not helpful.

First you just tagged me too.
Second it s not about me tagging you.
3rd, I have read the guidance.
4th You haven't read the EU 2004/32/EC directive
5th I know it s not about Settled status.
6th I know that some people been approved without CSI
7th it s not my own interpretation. I have been studying the immigration since 2015
8th if you ve read what I have written, I have said that the HO caseworkers not only can exercise discretion with BC applicants using Settled status but the must approve it also, it s the law.

uklondonn wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 7:43 pm

I must be wrong but I don't get it

ValenS wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 8:25 pm

uklondonn wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 7:43 pm

I must be wrong but I don't get it

It doesn’t say 3 or 5 years for the Settled Status period it says ‘quote for the relevant 3 or 5 year qualifying period .... of British Citizenship, or is it not

However, this grant of settled status (also know as indefinite leave to enter or
remain) will not confirm that they were here lawfully under the EEA Regulations
during that time, as defined by the British Nationality Act 1981 as this is not a
requirement of the EU Settlement Scheme. You may therefore need to request
further information from the applicant to demonstrate this.
The naturalisation application form (Form AN) asks for information to confirm the
applicant was lawfully in the UK for the relevant 3 or 5 year qualifying period.

Legally in the UK at the start of the qualifying period
To identify the start of the qualifying period you use the day after the application date
minus the length of the qualifying period. For example in an application under section
6(1) made on 1 March 2016, the applicant must have been legally in the UK on 2
March 2011.
Where the applicant fails to meet the requirement to be in the UK at the start of the
qualifying period by 2 months or less, either side of the application date, you must

The naturalisation application form (Form AN) asks for information to confirm the
applicant was lawfully in the UK for the relevant 3 or 5 year qualifying period.

A person granted pre-settled status may have dual running rights under both UK
immigration rules (in accordance with their grant of pre-settled status) and the EEA
Regulations during their residence – once granted pre-settled status, they will not
need to demonstrate that they were exercising a treaty right. To assess whether the
person was here lawfully in accordance with the EEA Regulations (if required) prior
to their grant of pre-settled or settled status you must look at the guidance on
EEA/Swiss nationals and their family members. This includes the type of evidence
you can take into account.You must assess whether the applicant was lawfully
resident under the EEA Regulations in accordance with that guidance and therefore
lawfully in the UK for any residence prior to the grant of pre-settled status, or settled
status.
If the information is not provided with the application form, you must request it.
You must assess whether the individual has been here lawfully during their 3 or 5
year residential period prior to pre-settled status or settled status, by considering on
the balance of probabilities whether they were here:
• as a qualified person (such as a worker, student, self-employed, selfsufficient, retired or incapacitated person)
• as the family member of such a person.
Evidence of this can include API data or documents previously submitted to satisfy
their lawful residence. Where appropriate, you must also be satisfied that the person
was lawfully in the UK, with comprehensive sickness insurance (CSI).

prior to pre-settled status or settled status

uklondonn wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 8:49 pm

ValenS wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 8:25 pm

uklondonn wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 7:43 pm

I must be wrong but I don't get it

It doesn’t say 3 or 5 years for the Settled Status period it says ‘quote for the relevant 3 or 5 year qualifying period .... of British Citizenship, or is it not

Let's make some quotes directly from the Guide (Page 27):

However, this grant of settled status (also know as indefinite leave to enter or
remain) will not confirm that they were here lawfully under the EEA Regulations
during that time, as defined by the British Nationality Act 1981 as this is not a
requirement of the EU Settlement Scheme. You may therefore need to request
further information from the applicant to demonstrate this.
The naturalisation application form (Form AN) asks for information to confirm the
applicant was lawfully in the UK for the relevant 3 or 5 year qualifying period.

We know already the meaning of "qualifying period". It's on the guide as well as you were quoting before:

Legally in the UK at the start of the qualifying period
To identify the start of the qualifying period you use the day after the application date
minus the length of the qualifying period. For example in an application under section
6(1) made on 1 March 2016, the applicant must have been legally in the UK on 2
March 2011.
Where the applicant fails to meet the requirement to be in the UK at the start of the
qualifying period by 2 months or less, either side of the application date, you must

We guess that the application date refers to BC application. Fine.

BUT, right after (Page 27):

The naturalisation application form (Form AN) asks for information to confirm the
applicant was lawfully in the UK for the relevant 3 or 5 year qualifying period.

We have:

A person granted pre-settled status may have dual running rights under both UK
immigration rules (in accordance with their grant of pre-settled status) and the EEA
Regulations during their residence – once granted pre-settled status, they will not
need to demonstrate that they were exercising a treaty right. To assess whether the
person was here lawfully in accordance with the EEA Regulations (if required) prior
to their grant of pre-settled or settled status you must look at the guidance on
EEA/Swiss nationals and their family members. This includes the type of evidence
you can take into account.You must assess whether the applicant was lawfully
resident under the EEA Regulations in accordance with that guidance and therefore
lawfully in the UK for any residence prior to the grant of pre-settled status, or settled
status.
If the information is not provided with the application form, you must request it.
You must assess whether the individual has been here lawfully during their 3 or 5
year residential period prior to pre-settled status or settled status, by considering on
the balance of probabilities whether they were here:
• as a qualified person (such as a worker, student, self-employed, selfsufficient, retired or incapacitated person)
• as the family member of such a person.
Evidence of this can include API data or documents previously submitted to satisfy
their lawful residence. Where appropriate, you must also be satisfied that the person
was lawfully in the UK, with comprehensive sickness insurance (CSI).

It says twice PRIOR. This is why I can't get that all of you understand this sentence, as it doesn't exist this bit:

prior to pre-settled status or settled status

Lopand wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 8:13 pm

To my understanding the CSI issue is regarding the "good character" requirement, not the residency, therefore the 10 years term.

beaujam90 wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 9:38 pm

Lopand wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 8:13 pm

To my understanding the CSI issue is regarding the "good character" requirement, not the residency, therefore the 10 years term.

Precisely !

ValenS wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 11:48 pm

beaujam90 wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 9:38 pm

Lopand wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 8:13 pm

To my understanding the CSI issue is regarding the "good character" requirement, not the residency, therefore the 10 years term.

Precisely !

Settled Status is only certifying you are free from emigration restrictions, then you have 5 years of paid CSI for the qualifying period so where is the good character requirement coming in for the CSI exactly?

beaujam90 wrote: ↑

Wed May 27, 2020 1:35 am

ValenS wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 11:48 pm

beaujam90 wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 9:38 pm

Lopand wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 8:13 pm

To my understanding the CSI issue is regarding the "good character" requirement, not the residency, therefore the 10 years term.

Precisely !

Settled Status is only certifying you are free from emigration restrictions, then you have 5 years of paid CSI for the qualifying period so where is the good character requirement coming in for the CSI exactly?

Unlawful residence is the time spent in the UK when you were not supposed to be here legally under the EU directive (if you are an EEA or Swiss...citizen). The UK gov could have sent those EEA students or self-sufficient people, who didn't have CSI, back to their countries of origin, but preferred to not do it.
Those people who should have had CSI but did not get one, have not been in the Uk lawfully under the EU law and therefore are not deemed ''good character'' under the this law.
You should be a good character during the past 10 years before applying for BC.

Normally the NHS is a CSI as it covers EU citizens because they already pay taxes towards the NHS.

ValenS wrote: ↑

Wed May 27, 2020 1:45 am

beaujam90 wrote: ↑

Wed May 27, 2020 1:35 am

ValenS wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 11:48 pm

beaujam90 wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 9:38 pm

Precisely !

Settled Status is only certifying you are free from emigration restrictions, then you have 5 years of paid CSI for the qualifying period so where is the good character requirement coming in for the CSI exactly?

Unlawful residence is the time spent in the UK when you were not supposed to be here legally under the EU directive (if you are an EEA or Swiss...citizen). The UK gov could have sent those EEA students or self-sufficient people, who didn't have CSI, back to their countries of origin, but preferred to not do it.
Those people who should have had CSI but did not get one, have not been in the Uk lawfully under the EU law and therefore are not deemed ''good character'' under the this law.
You should be a good character during the past 10 years before applying for BC.

Normally the NHS is a CSI as it covers EU citizens because they already pay taxes towards the NHS.

You didn't answer my question though, if you have Settled Status which is by law not requiring CSI but is a legal document to prove you are free from immigration restrictions, and you have 5 years paid CSI during the 5 years qualifying period for British citizenship, what happens there in your opinion

beaujam90 wrote: ↑

Wed May 27, 2020 2:48 am

... I 've mentioned ''a not being married to a brit'' in that scenario. As a married to a brit can apply for BC as soon as he/she acquires Settled status and in that case he/she need the full 10 years CSI cover if that scenario was about a married to a brit and have studied for 10 years.