ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

Locked
vinny
Moderator
Posts: 32758
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by vinny » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:15 am

uklondonn wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:39 pm
Anyone with settle status and a gap in their employment in the latest 5 years prior to applying to settle status, witouth CSI won't be able to apply for British Citizenship.

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/it-just ... -citizens/

Have I miss understood this?

If I've got it right, It's ridiculous that they change the rules afterwards!

If I knew about this, I would have waited to apply for Settle status!

Only if I should have waited for 10 months more 🙄🙄🙄🙄.
The Guidance has since been updated on 02 Sept 2020.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Frou01
Member of Standing
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:29 pm
Mood:
Finland

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by Frou01 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:14 am

The part about CSI (page 27, 28) on the update from 1 September looks the same to me than in May.
I think there have been an updated version of the caseworker guidance in June and July already.
They clearly keep that requirement for csi.
Unless I didn’t spot new changes?

The changes must be about something else in the guidance.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 32758
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by vinny » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:59 am

Oops. I think you are right.
Changes from last version of this guidance

Changes to the sections on presence in the UK at the start of the qualifying period and excess absences.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Frou01
Member of Standing
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:29 pm
Mood:
Finland

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by Frou01 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:28 am

vinny wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:59 am
Oops. I think you are right.
Changes from last version of this guidance

Changes to the sections on presence in the UK at the start of the qualifying period and excess absences.
Good to know anyway.

H_Appie
Newly Registered
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:54 pm
Egypt

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by H_Appie » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:51 am

Dear All,

Many thanks for all the invaluable information provided in this thread. I wondered if you could please help with a couple of queries.

To give you a bit of context first:
- I arrived in the UK in March 2012 on a Tier 4 student visa. Was doing my PhD at the time.
- In July 2015, I got married to my wife and was issued with an EU Family Member BRP. Since then, my wife and I have been paying for a CSI.
- I have been working since December 2014 as a lecturer, first within the confines of my then Tier 4 visa (20 hours), then full time following obtaining my EU Family Member BRP.
- My wife and I applied for and were granted Settled Status earlier this month.
- I intend to apply for British Citizenship (BC) as soon as possible.

My questions are:

1- As the Permanent Residency can be backdated, can I apply for it, now that I have been granted Settled Status?
2- In case my Permanent Residency application gets rejected for whatever reason, would that have an impact on my Settled Status? Would it be revoked?
3- Would the time spent as a student on a Tier 4 visa (between March 2012 and July 2015 in my case) count towards my Permanent Residency period? Or would the timer for the Permanent Residency's qualifying period start from the date of marriage to my EU spouse (July 2015)?
4- If the qualifying period for Permanent Residency starts in July 2015, would it be worth applying for a Permanent Residency now or shall I just wait for 12 months to apply for BC on the basis of the Settled Status? The sooner I can apply the better for me, to be honest.

Any help with these questions would be very much appreciated. Thanks a million in advance and sorry for the long thread.

AnotherUUID
Member
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:23 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by AnotherUUID » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:55 am

H_Appie wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:51 am
1- As the Permanent Residency can be backdated, can I apply for it, now that I have been granted Settled Status?
You can. However, PR status is based on EU/EEA regulations and you only become eligible for PR status after being resident in the UK for 5 years under these regulations. Which means 5 years after obtaining your EEA family permit. Assuming you obtained your family permit in July 2015, the earliest date you would qualify for PR status would be July 2020.
H_Appie wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:51 am
2- In case my Permanent Residency application gets rejected for whatever reason, would that have an impact on my Settled Status? Would it be revoked?
No, regardless of outcome of DCPR application.
H_Appie wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:51 am
3- Would the time spent as a student on a Tier 4 visa (between March 2012 and July 2015 in my case) count towards my Permanent Residency period? Or would the timer for the Permanent Residency's qualifying period start from the date of marriage to my EU spouse (July 2015)?
Time under Tier 4 won't count. See answer to #1 above.
H_Appie wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:51 am
4- If the qualifying period for Permanent Residency starts in July 2015, would it be worth applying for a Permanent Residency now or shall I just wait for 12 months to apply for BC on the basis of the Settled Status?
Most likely not worth the hassle. The paperwork for DCPR can be quite hefty and since your earliest date for being granted PR status is July 2020, the earliest you can apply for BC under the DCPR route would be July 2021.

Since you already have settled status under the EUSS, you only need to wait whatever is left of the 12 months from the date of acquiring that status before you can apply for BC. In my view, this would be a much more straightforward.

Also note that CSI is not required for periods spent in employment as you would have been paying tax. CSI is only relevant for periods as a student or self-sufficient under EEA regulations. Your time as a student was under Tier 4 visa, not under EEA regulations.

H_Appie
Newly Registered
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:54 pm
Egypt

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by H_Appie » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:08 am

@AnotherUUID: Thank you ever so much for your prompt response. I am really grateful for your help with this.

Given your responses, I agree with you that it is probably not worth the hassle to apply for a PR. Now that I understand that the period spent in the country on a Tier 4 visa won't count, applying for a PR would only buy me a maximum of two months (the time difference between qualifying for a PR in July and being granted Settled Status in September). It is just a matter of waiting now. Gives me a bit more time to prepare for the Life in the UK test.

Thanks again mate.

jpl
Newly Registered
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:20 pm

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by jpl » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:48 am

AnotherUUID wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:55 am
Most likely not worth the hassle. The paperwork for DCPR can be quite hefty and since your earliest date for being granted PR status is July 2020, the earliest you can apply for BC under the DCPR route would be July 2021.
Permanent Residence documents will also not be valid after 1 January 2021, so in this case it would be totally pointless to apply. See the "Details" section on this page: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... orm-eea-pr

H_Appie
Newly Registered
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:54 pm
Egypt

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by H_Appie » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:51 pm

@jpl Many thanks mate. That's very useful to know.

Will check the Details section now. Thanks again.

ThePolishGal
Newbie
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:29 pm
Poland

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by ThePolishGal » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:15 pm

Are people aware of this?

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/it-just ... itizenship


It came into power on the 30th September. I applied early October and am seriously worried it's affected my application.

There was no bigger news about it. At glance, the citizenship info website on gov.uk says nothing about it.

How do you ask for 'discretion', is that via cover letter?

User avatar
alterhase58
Moderator
Posts: 7485
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:02 pm
Location: UK Bucks
Germany

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by alterhase58 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:18 pm

We have yet to see reports of applications failing due to CSI issues following the May update of the "Good Character Requirement" guidance.
However, some members with CSI issues have reported being approved since then.

If/when it comes to the question about CSI evidence you clearly have to respond, ideally with documentation perhaps even including EHIC card or similar insurance policies, and explain what you had, or why you didn't have it, in a cover letter.
This is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.
Please do not send me private messages asking for advice.

Alice109
Newly Registered
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:52 pm
Italy

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by Alice109 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:15 pm

hello,
is this new 10 years CSI update of the 30th September also affecting who applied before the 30/09/2020?!!!!!

AnotherUUID
Member
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:23 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by AnotherUUID » Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:04 am

Alice109 wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:15 pm
hello,
is this new 10 years CSI update of the 30th September also affecting who applied before the 30/09/2020?!!!!!
Unfortunately there is no way of knowing for sure how this rule will be applied until we start to see reports of refused applications on those grounds.

As @alterhase58 mentioned we have already seen a general trend for the CSI requirement being disregarded, suggesting that discretion is commonly used (there's no way of knowing for sure if discretion was used in successful applications). But this is still little data from a small sample size. It's easy to assume that the same practice will apply to GCR but until we have sufficient evidence of that there is no way to know. And even then, the use of discretion in a some applications does not guarantee use of discretion in other applications.

Alice109
Newly Registered
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:52 pm
Italy

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by Alice109 » Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:18 am

''Unfortunately there is no way of knowing for sure''

The May 15 update was applying to applications made after that date, in fact on previous forms was not even asked to provide CSI
Now this new update should follow the same rules in fact on the form (before this update) there's nowhere where to provide evidence of 10 years of residence
Besides, the puzzling thing is I've read the update and it seems apply mostly to non EEA family members while for PR and Settled Status it's just repeating what was written in the May 15 update like PR is a proof of 5 years residence etc... So you lost me

JB007
- thin ice -
Posts: 1745
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:14 pm

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by JB007 » Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:17 am

Alice109 wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:15 pm
hello,
is this new 10 years CSI update of the 30th September also affecting who applied before the 30/09/2020?!!!!!

Details

This guidance tells Home Office staff how to assess the good character requirement in relevant nationality applications.

It applies to:

- all decisions made on or after 14 January 2019 which are as a result of a person’s association with war crimes or extremism
- all new applications for citizenship made on or after 14 January 2019


https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... y-guidance

Alice109
Newly Registered
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:52 pm
Italy

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by Alice109 » Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:26 am

JB007 wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:17 am

It applies to:

- all decisions made on or after 14 January 2019 which are as a result of a person’s association with war crimes or extremism
- all new applications for citizenship made on or after 14 January 2019[/i]
This is more likely an indication for the Guidance not for the update considering the HO indications for the May update was for applications made after it. Reasonable to think because it is pretty expensive, so they can't add very different things after you applied following their regulations in my opinion. And even if it was as it is, it doesn't change or add up any new indications compared to the May update.

ThePolishGal
Newbie
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:29 pm
Poland

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by ThePolishGal » Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:13 pm

What do people think should be the best approach here:

(A) to mention this in the cover letter (essentially drawing attention to the matter), with explanation and ask for discretion, uploaded with all documents?
Or (B) not mention it in the cover letter, but if contacted by them for further explanation, then explain and ask for discretion?

AnotherUUID
Member
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:23 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by AnotherUUID » Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:37 am

Alice109 wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:18 am
The May 15 update was applying to applications made after that date
What official (i.e. from HO) evidence have you got of this? The reports on this forum of successful applications (those that may have been affected) since then, while encouraging, are only anecdotal evidence at best as it is not possible to know whether the caseworker exercised discretion in favour of the applicant or not. It may be that discretion is 'routinely' exercised which would be great but is no guarantee.
Alice109 wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:18 am
Besides, the puzzling thing is I've read the update and it seems apply mostly to non EEA family members
No. It very clearly states that it applies to all EEA and Swiss nationals as well as family members of such.
Alice109 wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:18 am
while for PR and Settled Status it's just repeating what was written in the May 15 update like PR is a proof of 5 years residence etc
You don't need to prove residence you need to prove compliance with the relevant immigration laws. But I assume this is what you meant, in which case yes and no.

What it repeats is that DCPR is proof of compliance with CSI for the 5y period immediately before the date of obtaining PR status and any period since then. But it also explicitly mentions that, in line with other GCR guidance, the applicant needs to have been compliant with the CSI requirement (where applicable) for the full 10y period prior to the application date. This has been debated a number of times on this forum and is a move by HO that is unfortunate but not surprising at all.

For people who have been in the UK 6y before applying for naturalisation, DCPR will show that they have been compliant and they need not worry about it. However, since DCPR is only issued based on the evidence supplied at the time of applying for DCPR, some people will have been in the UK for more than 6y but have successfully obtained DCPR status starting later. This means they will need to provide proof of CSI (if applicable) for any period prior to obtaining PR status up to 10y from the date of application.

The same applies for people with settled status via EUSS. Since May but prior to the 30/09 update, CSI was only explicitly asked for the "qualifying period". But with CSI being asked for explicitly in the GCR guidance, this now spans up to 10y back (where applicable).

There is absolutely no guarantee, with the current wording of the guidance, that this new update will not affect applications already "in flight" and there is nothing stopping a caseworker from asking that the applicant supplies such proof.
Alice109 wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:26 am
Reasonable to think because it is pretty expensive, so they can't add very different things after you applied following their regulations in my opinion.
It's indeed reasonable and I fully agree that this is how it should be. But when it comes to naturalisation ultimately HO can do pretty much whatever they want whenever they want (within the limits of the BNA), and they don't owe anybody any explanation of their actions. They have done this before.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 32758
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by vinny » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:16 am

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

claudio87
Newly Registered
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:11 am
Mood:
Italy

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by claudio87 » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:35 am

There is absolutely no guarantee, with the current wording of the guidance, that this new update will not affect applications already "in flight" and there is nothing stopping a caseworker from asking that the applicant supplies such proof.
Indeed they can request proof of CSI to applicants who submitted prior to the date that this change was made public, as to give them a chance to update their evidence. However, had one known that up to 10 years of their life in the UK rather 5 would be scrutinised for this purpose, then they would think twice about whether or not to risk losing the application fee. In short, applying this new rule retrospectively would be unfair.

I also find it unfair that the AN guidance document has not been updated to reflect this new "10 years" rule, but instead the good character nationality policy guidance has. The latter seems more like a document for caseworkers to use and less likely to be found by applicants who instead rely on the former.

I have prepared my application over summer and getting ready to submit it next week. I am a EU citizen applying via settled status and am clearly caught by this because I have been here for 9 years, the first of which I was a student with no CSI. At this point I could either bail, or accept the risk of wasting the application fee.

Alice109
Newly Registered
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:52 pm
Italy

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by Alice109 » Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:56 am

claudio87 wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:35 am
clearly caught by this because I have been here for 9 years, the first of which I was a student with no CSI
In my opinion 'caught by this' is for non-EEA people who can overstay and have an expired visa. For EEA citizens is proving 5 years lawful residence in any period of the 10 years. Since 15 of May 2020 the form is asking you to attach CSI for periods of financial inactivity in the 5 years back to the application date you can also mix match years

dogcat
Junior Member
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:41 pm

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by dogcat » Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:32 am

Say someone have exercised the TR for the 5 FIRST years and achieved PR status.
It is my thinking (also Directive 2004/38/EC) that they won't need to be exercising treaty rights any further AS THEY WOULDN'T BE IN BREACH OF IMMIGRATION LAWS.


It is stated in guidance that the applicant must not have been in breach of immigration law within past 10 years.


It is not the continuous exercising of treaty rights for 10 years but not being in breach of immigration laws at any time during past 10 years, which is not quite the same thing.
Same like one doesn't need to be exercising treaty rights after being granted pre/settled status because.

It would only be applicable to people in a position where immigration law was breached prior to achieving PR status (provided this happened within last 10 years)
Offcourse, unfortunately, there will be quite a lot of people in this position.

Alice109
Newly Registered
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:52 pm
Italy

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by Alice109 » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:01 pm

It's not written like that, it's written to assess lawful 5 years residency under the EU regulations within the past 10 years, which is a bit different to what you said

dogcat
Junior Member
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:41 pm

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by dogcat » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:17 pm

Exactly

dogcat
Junior Member
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:41 pm

Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by dogcat » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:37 pm

As per Nationality: good character requirement Version 2.0 Published for Home Office staff on 30 September 2020 :

''People who are entitled to reside in the UK under the EEA Regulations 2016 do not
require leave to enter or remain.
In assessing whether a person has complied with immigration requirements over the
previous 10 years, you must take into account whether they were subject to the EEA
Regulations 2016 or the Immigration Act 1971 and whether they complied with the
relevant requirements.''

So if one was exercising TR for the first 5 years, PR is achieved automatically; implication being- one does not have to reside as a 'qualified person' any more i.e. be further exercising treaty rights'' for the residence to be considered 'lawful'.

How is it any different to what my previous post- I don't know.

Locked
cron