Descent based citizenship question.

Here is the core background:

Paternal grandfather and grandmother UK soil born 1910-1915.
Father born Australia 1941 whilst grandfather on Crown Service.
I born New Guinea 1967 (not PNG and not Papua. New Guinea. The northern part.)

My own research:

From what I can make out, father is automatic natural born British Subject at birth. (S1 BNSA 1914)
Father becomes automatic CUKC in 1948, but by descent only (s.12(2) of BNA1948) - (robbed of natural born status despite grandfather's Crown Service).
Father does not acquire AU citizenship automatically in 1949 via Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948, but is eligible for registration. (S10 and S12 NACA 1948). Father's acquisition of CUKC status in 1948 irrelevant to potential AU citizenship in 1949 (i.e. dual citizenship at worst).
Father had not renounced CUKC citizenship prior to 1968.

My conclusion:

I can see that I should be a citizen via s 5(1)(a) of BNA 1948 due to New Guinea being an extra-territorial jurisdiction of the Crown at the time.

The question:

Despite my British citizenship appearing to be an operation of law, has anyone had real issues with this sort of (passport) application? Have they had to get a status confirmation letter from the HO before HMPO would issue?

You need a very good expert in international citizenship law for this, not a forum of strangers. This is one for wallet.....

I don't need a lawyer. The citizenship is quite clear. The question is whether HMPO routinely requests the HO status letter in these sort of (less common) circumstances.

I must begin by commending you on your excellent research into this fairly obscure question. Most people who ask questions on these forums are unprepared for the level of detail that is required for us to assist them.

But in this case, I too would suggest that you consult a lawyer. And the lawyer would need to be an expert not just in legacy nationality law, but also in international law. For there is a fly in the ointment of your admittedly very well-argued case.

New Guinea was a League of Nations mandate administered by Australia, not by the UK.

laager wrote:New Guinea being an extra-territorial jurisdiction of the Crown at the time.

Therefore New Guinea was not a part of the jurisdiction of the British Crown, but that of the Australian Crown. While the Crowns of the 16 Commonwealth Realms are worn (so to speak) by the same person, they are sixteen separate Crowns, with separate jurisdiction. So, the BNA 1948, which was enacted well after the Statute of Westminster 1931, which gave Australia and the other Commonwealth Realms legislative independence,would not apply to people born in New Guinea.

Thanks, but I've already had the confirmation that ETJ exists. I'm only asking about the HO letter, not eligibility.

British Government's own assessment:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... dtrust.pdf

Note 2.5 - 2.7 on page 3.

laager wrote:I've already had the confirmation that ETJ exists

I m not clear what ETJ is. Can you spell out the full-form?

I would recommend getting the Home office letter of confirmation of nationality using Form NS. Your case, while by operatiion of the law, is quite unusual and HMPO will likely take a very long time in verifying the application of the law. An HO letter wwould speeed things along. In any case, you would need to submit the same type of evidence for both (all the documents proving your paternal grandfather's birth in the UK, your paternal grandparents' marriage certificate, your father's birth certificate and your parents' marriage certificate and then your birth certficate, along with the statement of the laws that you have stated in this thread).

I wonder if you would then become a British citizen by descent or otherwise than by descent.

And again, my hat off to you for your research. Excellent job.

secret.simon wrote:

laager wrote:I've already had the confirmation that ETJ exists

I m not clear what ETJ is. Can you spell out the full-form?

I am guessing the OP is abbreviating "extra-territorial jurisdiction"

secret.simon wrote:I wonder if you would then become a British citizen by descent or otherwise than by descent.

It would be by descent.

The only way I can see for it to be otherwise would be Crown Service by my father.

I'm just going to apply for the passport and let HMPO sort it out. Given the claim is on the basis of law, I have no cause (or even grounds) to apply for citizenship. I also have no compelling reason to apply for a status letter. I don't see a reason to spend an extra 165 quid getting a letter stating what I already know. Let HMPO do the inner legwork.

If HMPO asks for the letter, fine. I am quite confident I can prove my claim easily and may even qualify for a refund of those fees.

The result will be the same and on a similar timescale.

Here's what's off to HMPO (names, exact dates and identifying details removed):

I assert my British citizenship is by operation of law. My citizenship assertion is based upon the following core items:

My paternal grandfather was a natural-born British subject.
My grandparents were lawfully married in the UK.
My grandfather was recruited to the Royal Army in the UK.
My grandfather was in Crown Service in Australia at the time of my father’s birth.
My father was born in Australia in 1941, thus also a natural-born British subject.
My father acquired Citizen of the UK and Colonies (CUKC) status by operation of law in 1949.
My parents were lawfully married in Brisbane 1966
I was born in the Australian administered Non-UK Trust Territory of New Guinea in 1967.
My father had not renounced CUKC status prior to the commencement of the British Nationality Act 1981. (BNA1981)
I had not renounced CUKC status prior to the commencement of BNA1981.

IN DETAIL

PRINCIPAL ANALYSIS

Paternal Grandparents.

Grandfather – born London, England 01/05/1912
Grandmother – born Hemsworth, England 4/5/1913
Married in London 4/3/1939

Grandfather recruited to Royal Artillery 10/04/1936 in UK
Grandafather posted overseas to Hong Kong 04/09/1939
Grandfather dies as Japanese PoW 11/10/1941

Parents.

Father born 1941 in Australia.
Mother born 1946 in Australia.
Married in Brisbane, Australia 1966.

Myself.

Born 1967 in Australian administered Non-UK Trust Territory of New Guinea.

Analysis.

Paternal grandmother and grandfather are both natural-born British subjects. s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.
By virtue of birth within His Majesty’s Dominions, father is a natural-born British subject. s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.

In 1946 mother becomes a British subject at birth. s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.

On 26 January 1949 mother becomes Australian citizen s10(1) Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 – Australia

On the 1st of January 1949, father automatically becomes Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (CUKC). s12(2) British Nationality Act 1948 (BNA1948)

On the 26th of January 1949 father automatically also becomes Citizen of Australia s25(1)(a) Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 – Australia

Father is a dual CUKC and Australian citizen at this point, as well as remaining a British subject . s1 BNA1948

In 1966 father and mother lawfully marry in Brisbane, Australia.

I born 1967 in New Guinea, formerly Australian administered non-UK Mandated Territory (later non-UK Trust Territory) of New Guinea, a territory in which and at all times Her Majesty exercised extra-territorial jurisdiction over British subjects. (Treaty of Versailles 1920, Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, Articles 75 and 77 of the Charter of the UN (Cmnd 7015), Mandated Trust and Territories Act 1947).

I become CUKC by descent at birth (s5.1(a) BNA1948).

I do not renounce CUKC status prior to 1/01/1983.

I become British citizen on 1/01/1983 (s11.(1) British Nationality Act 1981)

SECONDARY ANALYSIS:

Grandfather – born London, England 01/05/1912
Grandmother – born Hemsworth, England 4/5/1913
Married in London 4/3/1939

Grandfather recruited to Royal Artillery 10/04/1936 in UK
Grandafather posted overseas to Hong Kong 04/09/1939
Grandfather dies as Japanese PoW 11/10/1941

Parents.

Father born 1941 in Australia.
Mother born 1946 in Australia.
Married in Brisbane, Australia 1969.

Myself.

Born 1967 in Australian administered Non-UK Trust Territory of New Guinea.

Analysis.

Paternal grandmother and grandfather are both natural-born British subjects. s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.
By virtue of birth within His Majesty’s Dominions, father is a natural-born British subject. s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.

In 1946 mother becomes a British subject at birth. s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.

On the 1st of January 1949, father automatically becomes Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (CUKC). s12(2) British Nationality Act 1948 (BNA1948)


On the 26th of January 1949 father automatically also becomes Citizen of Australia s25(1)(a) Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 – Australia


On 11th of August 1949 mother becomes Australian citizen s10(1) Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 – Australia

Father is a dual CUKC and Australian citizen at this point, as well as remaining a British subject . s1 BNA1948

In 1966 father and mother lawfully marry in Brisbane, Australia.

I born 1967 in New Guinea, formerly Australian administered non-UK Mandated Territory (later non-UK Trust Territory) of New Guinea, a territory in which and at all times Her Majesty exercised extra-territorial jurisdiction over British subjects. (Treaty of Versailles 1920, Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, Articles 75 and 77 of the Charter of the UN (Cmnd 7015), Mandated Trust and Territories Act 1947).

I become CUKC by descent at birth (s5.1(a) BNA1948).

I do not renounce CUKC status prior to 1/01/1983.

Father becomes British citizen otherwise than by descent on 1/01/1983 (s11.(1) and s14(2)(a) British Nationality Act 1981 – Crown Service)

I become British citizen (by descent) on 1/01/1983 (s11.(1) British Nationality Act 1981) due to father being British citizen otherwise than by descent.

Hope this helps a reasonably similar applicant.

Edit: minor date adjustment.

I assert my British citizenship is by operation of law. My citizenship assertion is based upon the following core items:

My paternal grandfather was a natural-born British subject.
My grandparents were lawfully married in the UK.
My grandfather was recruited to the Royal Army in the UK.
My grandfather was in Crown Service in Australia at the time of my father’s birth.
My father was born in Australia in 1941, thus also a natural-born British subject.
My father acquired Citizen of the UK and Colonies (CUKC) status by operation of law in 1949.
My parents were lawfully married in Brisbane 1966
I was born in the Australian administered Non-UK Trust Territory of New Guinea in 1967.
My father had not renounced CUKC status prior to the commencement of the British Nationality Act 1981. (BNA1981)
I had not renounced CUKC status prior to the commencement of BNA1981.

IN DETAIL

PRINCIPAL ANALYSIS

Paternal Grandparents.

Grandfather – born London, England 01/05/1912
Grandmother – born Hemsworth, England 4/5/1913
Married in London 4/3/1939

Grandfather recruited to Royal Artillery 10/04/1936 in UK
Grandafather posted overseas to Hong Kong 04/09/1939
Grandfather dies as Japanese PoW 11/10/1941

Parents.

Father born 1941 in Australia.
Mother born 1946 in Australia.
Married in Brisbane, Australia 1966.

Myself.

Born 1967 in Australian administered Non-UK Trust Territory of New Guinea.

Analysis.

Paternal grandmother and grandfather are both natural-born British subjects. s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.
By virtue of birth within His Majesty’s Dominions, father is a natural-born British subject. s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.

In 1946 mother becomes a British subject at birth. s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.

On 26 January 1949 mother becomes Australian citizen s10(1) Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 – Australia

On the 1st of January 1949, father automatically becomes Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (CUKC). s12(2) British Nationality Act 1948 (BNA1948)

On the 26th of January 1949 father automatically also becomes Citizen of Australia s25(1)(a) Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 – Australia

Father is a dual CUKC and Australian citizen at this point, as well as remaining a British subject . s1 BNA1948

In 1966 father and mother lawfully marry in Brisbane, Australia.

I born 1967 in New Guinea, formerly Australian administered non-UK Mandated Territory (later non-UK Trust Territory) of New Guinea, a territory in which and at all times Her Majesty exercised extra-territorial jurisdiction over British subjects. (Treaty of Versailles 1920, Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, Articles 75 and 77 of the Charter of the UN (Cmnd 7015), Mandated Trust and Territories Act 1947).

I become CUKC by descent at birth (s5.1(a) BNA1948).

I do not renounce CUKC status prior to 1/01/1983.

I become British citizen on 1/01/1983 (s11.(1) British Nationality Act 1981)

SECONDARY ANALYSIS:

Grandfather – born London, England 01/05/1912
Grandmother – born Hemsworth, England 4/5/1913
Married in London 4/3/1939

Grandfather recruited to Royal Artillery 10/04/1936 in UK
Grandafather posted overseas to Hong Kong 04/09/1939
Grandfather dies as Japanese PoW 11/10/1941

Parents.

Father born 1941 in Australia.
Mother born 1946 in Australia.
Married in Brisbane, Australia 1966.

Myself.

Born 1967 in Australian administered Non-UK Trust Territory of New Guinea.

Analysis.

Paternal grandmother and grandfather are both natural-born British subjects. s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.
By virtue of birth within His Majesty’s Dominions, father is a natural-born British subject. s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.

In 1946 mother becomes a British subject at birth. s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.

On the 1st of January 1949, father automatically becomes Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (CUKC). s12(2) British Nationality Act 1948 (BNA1948)


On the 26th of January 1949 father automatically also becomes Citizen of Australia s25(1)(a) Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 – Australia


On 11th of August 1949 mother becomes Australian citizen s10(1) Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 – Australia

Father is a dual CUKC and Australian citizen at this point, as well as remaining a British subject . s1 BNA1948

In 1966 father and mother lawfully marry in Brisbane, Australia.

I born 1967 in New Guinea, formerly Australian administered non-UK Mandated Territory (later non-UK Trust Territory) of New Guinea, a territory in which and at all times Her Majesty exercised extra-territorial jurisdiction over British subjects. (Treaty of Versailles 1920, Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, Articles 75 and 77 of the Charter of the UN (Cmnd 7015), Mandated Trust and Territories Act 1947).

I become CUKC by descent at birth (s5.1(a) BNA1948).

I do not renounce CUKC status prior to 1/01/1983.

Father becomes British citizen otherwise than by descent on 1/01/1983 (s11.(1) and s14(2)(a) British Nationality Act 1981 – Crown Service)

I become British citizen (by descent) on 1/01/1983 (s11.(1) British Nationality Act 1981) due to father being British citizen otherwise than by descent.

Hope this helps a reasonably similar applicant.[/quote]

HMPO issued a full British Citizen passport without question. No HO letter request. No interview. Nothing. So, vindication.

Bear in mind that I had access to, and was able to supply, ALL relevant documents, along with a full legal analysis of the circumstances and chain of events. Without that, I doubt it would be as easy as I make it out to be.

Congratulations.

I think that "a full legal analysis of the circumstances and chain of events" and meticulous research was quite important. I doubt even the senior caseworkers would have looked into the level of detail that you did. In a sense, you did their legwork and made it easy for them to issue the passport to you.

secret.simon wrote:...you did their legwork and made it easy for them to issue the passport to you.

That was exactly my intention. I suggest that anybody else with something a little out of the ordinary do the same.