Driving with no Insurance and apply for Naturalization

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:19 pm

matinuk2 wrote:Hi john,

i've read the paragraph you've mentioned, it says if you have committed a crime, as far as i know driving without insurance is not a crime, it is traffic offence, i was concerned about this and asked the judge in court, and even the judge has confirmed that it is not a crime and will not be in my criminal record, i have had a CRB and CNP check and both came with no record, so i think my solicitor is right.
benefit fraud is a crime and will be in your criminal record but amazingly some people in this forum thinks that driving without insurance is much worth.
as i said i trust my solicitor, at the end of the day, it's his job and he got my PR

Epic fail dude.

3.3 Even if accidental, driving without insurance is a criminal offence.

From, http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/miud/un ... ukb?page=5 a somewhat impeccable source. Amazingly, some people on this forum think driving without insurance is not serious at all.

mochyn · Post by **mochyn** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:41 am

I think you need a wake up call.

People who commit benefit fraud do commit an offence but it is usually victimless.

A failed asylum seeker who was driving uninsured killed a family man thus depriving a wife of her husband , children being deprived of a father

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... onths.html

This is the second time he has been caught driving uninsured.

DRIVING WITHOUT INSURANCE IS CRIMINAL

gainvidya · Post by **gainvidya** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:21 am

mochyn wrote:I think you need a wake up call.

People who commit benefit fraud do commit an offence but it is usually victimless.

A failed asylum seeker who was driving uninsured killed a family man thus depriving a wife of her husband , children being deprived of a father

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... onths.html

This is the second time he has been caught driving uninsured.

DRIVING WITHOUT INSURANCE IS CRIMINAL

Not having an insurance is an offence but having an accident does not necessarily a link to it. Otherwise it may sound like if it was insured THEN accident is OK!

senthil78 · Post by **senthil78** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:56 pm

matinuk2 wrote:yes that's what meant.

i wasn't aware of this either, but when my solicitor point it out to me, then i have checked it and according to HO guide line, it state that, in the situation that secretary of state can not over look the offence and might be doubt, this can not automatically refuse the application on the base of not being the person of a good character, but has to invite the applicant for interview.
you can check it in HO eligibility guide line :
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

paragraph 2-1, 2-2 and 2-3

matinuk2 · Post by **matinuk2** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:15 am

Thanks senthil78 for your advice,
that is the exact thing my solicitor said, he said he never had any case someone get refused for traffic offence, according to him he recently had someone with drink driving banned got his citizenship approved.
i will apply for my citizenship because i am also stateless as my country of birth decline to give me a passport as for my religious believe and i have never had any passport and for the past 10 years despite having my EEA2 and my pr, i have always had them on a piece of paper, so getting my British citizenship and passport is my only option and i can't risk not applying for it considering the law regarding PR will change by next year.
i have prepared a covering letter with full detail of my situation and also gathered couple of recommendation letter apart from my referee with mentioning of my voluntary and charity work.
all i can do is to be honest in my application and hope for best, if i have learned anything from HO is that they are not always the same in every case, as i was told for my pr that my application was doomed to fail as i was separated from my ex and she was refusing to give me any documents in regard to her exercising her treaty right, but HO has not even asked me for any documents.

droogish · Post by **droogish** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:08 pm

matinuk2 wrote:...i am also stateless as my country of birth decline to give me a passport as for my religious believe and i have never had any passport and for the past 10 years...

I seem to recall reading somewhere on the UKBA that if you are stateless there is greater leeway in determining eligibility for citizenship...can't remember where though.

foxy · Post by **foxy** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:21 am

mochyn wrote: People who commit benefit fraud do commit an offence but it is usually victimless.

The taxpayer is almost always the victim, being defrauded of money they've paid into the system.

matinuk2 · Post by **matinuk2** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:15 pm

Hi Foxy
i am totally agree with you, although it advertise on TV all the time that benefit fraud is a criminal records but some people in this forum are blinded with their silly idea of benefit fraud is acceptable when you apply for citizenship, they don't understand that someone without an insurance might have drove a car without knowing their insurance was canceled, for any reason, either non payment or late payment, or declined card or any reason, but someone who committed benefit fraud has done it knowing they are committing fraud and dishonesty.
but never mind, i have prepared a full covering letter explaining my situation and hopefully they will see that although i have done a mistake but it doesn't make me of a person of a bad character.

mrlookforward · Post by **mrlookforward** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:20 am

Shame is, that the law or courts dont give any leeway for driving without insurance. Even when the person did not do it deliberately. You could go and punch someone, break their bones and might still get away in a court with a slap on the wrist, but not while driving uninsured. They just dump everyone into the category of "driving without insurance". Once the driver is convicted, he usually is subject to the same time frame (and sometimes even less) under rehabilitaion of offenders act as would someone who burgles a house, or beats up someone, committs fraud etc etc.
UNFAIR

London-er · Post by **London-er** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:38 am

matinuk2 wrote:Thanks senthil78 for your advice,
that is the exact thing my solicitor said, he said he never had any case someone get refused for traffic offence, according to him he recently had someone with drink driving banned got his citizenship approved.
i will apply for my citizenship because i am also stateless as my country of birth decline to give me a passport as for my religious believe and i have never had any passport and for the past 10 years despite having my EEA2 and my pr, i have always had them on a piece of paper, so getting my British citizenship and passport is my only option and i can't risk not applying for it considering the law regarding PR will change by next year.
i have prepared a covering letter with full detail of my situation and also gathered couple of recommendation letter apart from my referee with mentioning of my voluntary and charity work.
all i can do is to be honest in my application and hope for best, if i have learned anything from HO is that they are not always the same in every case, as i was told for my pr that my application was doomed to fail as i was separated from my ex and she was refusing to give me any documents in regard to her exercising her treaty right, but HO has not even asked me for any documents.

Hi matinuk2,
Having read your post carefully, I do not need to doubt the fact you are nice person considering the fact you even work for a Charity group. But however, the law was not designed with you in mind.
Life is unfair sometimes and Citizenship is not necessarily a right, rather a privilege which is certified but the secretary of state.
Driving without insurance has never been considered in any UK court as a minor offence; if so prove me wrong with some instances.
My cousin was supposed to apply for citizenship Jan 2010 and BANG!!! He had a few more to drink on a night-out in Oct 2009, which put him over the limit, also fined and convicted by the court. He was informed by his Solicitor to wait but he thought it was minor for being his only offence in the UK. But he couldnâ€™t make it after and his application was rejected.
Donâ€™t waste your money if itâ€™s hard earned.
If you Solicitor tells you Driving without insurance in the UK is a minor offence, tell him you want a free service from him and see what he says.
Above all, this is my opinion and you have the decision to make and whatever happens, I wish you luck.

Ramy90 · Post by **Ramy90** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:17 pm

Driving without insurance is not a minor offence, police does not consider it minor for an important reason is that if you got hit by uninsured driver you are never going to get compensation for you as a pedestrian or for you and your car if you were driving. Do you think its fair for those people who got hit by uninsured driver and never get their car fixed!!! We all feel sorry for each other as we are in the same boat but logic must be said here.

mrlookforward · Post by **mrlookforward** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:42 pm

Driving without insurance is a serious offence, and its clear from HO guidance that they regard it as serious. But matin dude, if your heart says that you might be successful then my personal opinion is, go for it mate if you can afford to loose 700 plus pounds. You might be up for a big surprise. It will be very interesting to know the outcome of your case. When I made application for ILR, every single advisor and every single member on the forums said that I had no chance of success whatsoever. But, guess what, I got ILR.

I aint a oisc advisor or expert of any kind. All I am saying is, that all the guidance and opinion is that you application will be refused, but if in your heart you think you might be successful, and a loss of 700 plus pounds wont hurt you much, then go for it.

Wish you very good luck. Do let us know the outcome of your application.

DarthRage · Post by **DarthRage** » Thu May 20, 2010 4:35 pm

Just wondering matinuk2, what is the end of the story.

Did you get the British citizenship or not?

DarthRage · Post by **DarthRage** » Thu May 20, 2010 4:38 pm

Strike the above Post from me, I thought that you applied in 2009.

But it will be interesting to know how your doing tho.

Keep us updated

matinuk2 · Post by **matinuk2** » Sun May 23, 2010 11:43 am

Hi DarthRage

Well i have applied for my PR in 2009 and i had it on Feb 2010.
but as my Citizenship i will update you on the outcome when i applied, i spoke to my solicitor and decided to apply trough him but have to sort out some paper work.

don't worry i will update the result in here.

3point14 · Post by **3point14** » Sun May 23, 2010 10:51 pm

Wanderer wrote:
matinuk2 wrote: i don't think if driving without insurance is worst then benefit fraud or GBH caution
What? U r f'ing joking? Driving without insurance is a serious crime my friend, all my sympathy for ur sitch has gone now, I hope you are refused.

You should be in jail.

Agreed. What sort of example is it if we lower standards for immigrants than we have for out own people. I treat it as such a serious offence that I would look to see whether he should remain in the UK at all.

mrlookforward · Post by **mrlookforward** » Mon May 24, 2010 12:06 pm

I agree with you that its totally unacceptable to drive without insurance. But if you really want to apply such high moral standards everywhere, then I guess half the population of UK can be regarded as "not of good character".
This guy did a mistake, his license has been endorsed and he has been fined in the court of law. No point everyone jumping and dissing him. Everyone deserves a second chance. Dont forget, hundreds of convicted murderers in this country live in perfect freedom, many of them have just served 4-5 years or even less for killing people.

John · Post by **John** » Mon May 24, 2010 12:13 pm

Dont forget, hundreds of convicted murderers in this country live in perfect freedom, many of them have just served 4-5 years or even less for killing people.

That is not so. They are on licence for the rest of their lives and as a number have found out, they are liable to be recalled to prison at any time.

As regards driving without insurance I think the UKBA position is very clear and until the conviction is "spent" there is little chance of a person getting Naturalisation as British.

mrlookforward · Post by **mrlookforward** » Mon May 24, 2010 12:16 pm

John wrote:
Dont forget, hundreds of convicted murderers in this country live in perfect freedom, many of them have just served 4-5 years or even less for killing people.
That is not so. They are on licence for the rest of their lives and as a number have found out, they are liable to be recalled to prison at any time.

As regards driving without insurance I think the UKBA position is very clear and until the conviction is "spent" there is little chance of a person getting Naturalisation as British.

I agree John. All I am saying is, everyone deserves a second chance.

John · Post by **John** » Mon May 24, 2010 12:19 pm

They will get that second chance, when the conviction is spent.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon May 24, 2010 1:44 pm

mrlookforward wrote:I agree with you that its totally unacceptable to drive without insurance. But if you really want to apply such high moral standards everywhere, then I guess half the population of UK can be regarded as "not of good character".
This guy did a mistake, his license has been endorsed and he has been fined in the court of law. No point everyone jumping and dissing him. Everyone deserves a second chance. Dont forget, hundreds of convicted murderers in this country live in perfect freedom, many of them have just served 4-5 years or even less for killing people.

I think the difference here in the OP doesn't seem to think that his transgressions are of any note, and should be forgotten and exceptions made.

Bit like Adolf Hitler really, and we all know where that led to!

mrlookforward · Post by **mrlookforward** » Mon May 24, 2010 2:06 pm

How many points did hitler get ? No wonder hitler was driving without insurance. Every insurance complany must have declined him cover.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon May 24, 2010 2:50 pm

mrlookforward wrote:How many points did hitler get ? No wonder hitler was driving without insurance. Every insurance complany must have declined him cover.

I don't think he could drive. Also he was a non-smoking, vegetarian animal lover, odd for the time. However I read he may have had a penchant for coprophilia and an infatuation with his niece Geli, possibly linked. she killed herself, and this event possibly made Hitler what he became....

The Enabling Laws he passed would have meant he was exempt from, well, anything!

Before anyone starts he was a total nut-job and I don't worship him!

I find this subject fascinating!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geli_Raubal

Backer · Post by **Backer** » Mon May 24, 2010 5:07 pm

Wanderer - Let me follow your logic -Driving without insurance = Adolf Hitler? Do you know what that man was responsbile for??

Tanukiji · Post by **Tanukiji** » Thu May 27, 2010 4:49 pm

Hi matinuk2

Please see the sticky topic for naturalisation timeline, page 211. Someone in the same situation as you, more or less.

Sorry, your chances do not look good.

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Driving with no Insurance and apply for Naturalization

Hey

Re: hi