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Driving with no Insurance and apply for Naturalization

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

matinuk2
- thin ice -
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:14 pm

Driving with no Insurance and apply for Naturalization

Post by matinuk2 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:46 pm

Hi everyone,
it seems this worries never changes, now that i've got my PR it's time for me to apply for Naturalization by end of Apr, but I am worried sick.
i was stopped by the police in Sep 2009 for driving with no insurance, although i had an insurance on my other car which was stolen the same day, anyway long story short, the officer gave me a ticket with fixed penalty and 6 points on my license, i have been in this country for more than 10 years and had my license for more than 15 years and never even had a speeding ticket or any accident.
anyway, the officer explained to me that if i am not happy with his decision i can appeal to court,
As my license was clean i did apply to court and when i went to court in Feb, i have presented all the documents to the judge and explained the circumstances to the judge, after he checked all the documents, and sympathising with me, he explained that if i want to take it further i have to plead not guilty and go to crown court but it will be easier for me to plead guilty and just pay the fine and get the point, which i have accepted it and pleaded guilty and i am paying the fine on the monthly bases, but while i was there, i have asked the judge while the prosecutor was there, that i had a clean history and will this be a criminal record? the judge said that this is not a criminal record and it is only traffic offence, i have checked it online and obviously this wont be even in my CRB check or PNC.
according to my solicitor it is fine as long as I mention it in my application and i shouldn't be worried, according to him, 85% to 90% of applicants has some sort of traffic offence.
the thing is that i saw some people with worth offences and they still got their Naturalization approved, i saw a guy been arrested and cautioned for GBH as he punched someone in the face, and saw someone else who was under investigation for benefit fraud and he and his partner both applied and got their Naturalization and british passport.
also I've read somewhere that you also have to mention about your CCJ's which I've got couple of them but the question is who doesn't have a CCJ with these financial situation?
does home office do any credit check like the one they do when you apply for credit card? or do they just get your CRB report?
any comments, will appreciate it.

PS: i am determined to mention my traffic offence and mention about my couple of CCJ's in a covering letter, but also want to mention that i have always worked and never used any public funds also mentioning that i have been doing some charity work and recently i have started to work for St Johns ambulance voluntarily and as part of community support.
just to show them that i have been doing some goods too.
any comments?

Thanks

bani
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Post by bani » Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:07 am

The general rule seems to be that if you appeared in court, you mention it in your application. But I wouldn't worry as it is only a traffic offence. Better to declare it and have them know it's minor. If you hide it and they find out, there would be more trouble.

There is space on the form for you to explain the offence. I wouldn't bother with a cover letter - your p60s will show that you have been employed and not received benefits. And a letter from your employer and the charities you work for, they would help with the good character requirement.

What is CCJ? I don't think they do a credit check. They do for the British passport application (just to quiz you and make sure no one has stolen your identity).

I would apply through NCS. They would make sure your documents are complete and assure you that the offence is minor, and if there have been other successful cases like yours. I don't think you need a solicitor.

Good luck.

John
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Location: Birmingham, England

Post by John » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:34 am

But I wouldn't worry as it is only a traffic offence.
Only a traffic offence? You dismiss driving without insurance so lightly? In my opinion it is totally irresponsible.

matinuk2, suggest you download this UKBA document, and in particular read 3.2.5.e :-
Offences which would constitute “recklessnessâ€
John

bani
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Post by bani » Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:11 pm

Sorry, I did not realize it is a more serious offence! (as I don't drive here) In that case, do explain fully the circumstances in your application. The caseworker should take that into account and hopefully will approve your citizenship.

iyanu
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Location: London, UK
Nigeria

Post by iyanu » Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:03 pm

Although I agree in part with John on this matinuk2's case, I think on the other hand he has a chance of being granted naturalization if he declared it when applying for citizenship.

It looks clumzy though but for the fact that he is appealing on the ground that he thought his circumstances ( has his car has just been stolen) may have confused him and he eventaully lust the appeal and having been a spent conviction which I will categorized has fixed penalty offence with fine, he should be pardon and granted citizenship.

I will suggest that you explain your offence in your cover letter but with soberness and humility that you wish you had not gone that route but were under pressure and confused because your car had just been stolen and despirate to be with your family or somewhere safe.

All you have got to do now is believe and go for it man.

All the best.
Last edited by iyanu on Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:11 pm, edited 5 times in total.

matinuk2
- thin ice -
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:14 pm

Hi

Post by matinuk2 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:22 am

Hi everyone and thank you for your comments and advise.
As i said it was a very bad situation, i have drove the car without insurance unknowingly and thinking that i was covered by my other insurance as i use to have a limited company with couple of vans and always had a full insurance which was covering me if i was driving someone else's car too, also as i was using my motorbike most of the time, i also had a bike insurance too but that day as i said after vandalising my car for 4 times and at the end stealing it, i needed to go to central London with my brother and sister, that is why i used my friend car, i am not trying to explain my mistake though.
at the end of the day, it's the driver responsibility to make sure that the vehicle has MOT, Tax and insurance and is safe to drive, I know all of that, but i was attacked by couple of my gypsy neighbours which police has arrested them, and they are the one who vandalised my car and then stole it, but police could not prove it as they haven't caught them while committing the crime, anyway, i have never had any problem with police before, i have never drinked even a half a pint in my life if i was driving, i try to be responsible person not just in driving but in every aspect of life but at the end of the day we are all human and we do mistakes.
Wasn't lord ahmed who was involved in accident in M6 last year while talking on his mobile?
what about all the police officers that they used their government credit card for personal purpose? shouldn't they be the example?
or MPs with their expenses scandal's?
i admit i was guilty, that is why i have pleaded guilty in court, but the problem was that i didn't need to go to court, i was fined on the spot and had to send my license to endorse 6 points on it, but because my license was clean, I've thought i could challenge the decision in court and according to my circumstances the judge might let me off without any point, which although the judge has studied my story he explained that the point was a law and he could not change it unless I'd decide to go to higher court for it, which if i was losing the case it would have been very expensive for me and then they might have had a harsher penalty, that is why i pleaded guilty.
one mistake or misunderstanding doesn't make me a person of a bad character, if it was drink driving then yes i had no excuse, if i would have stolen a car, then yes they had every right to say i was a person of a bad character, but i was attacked,abused, and my property was damaged by some gypsies who live on a benefit paid by my taxes and people like me who pays their taxes, and the police even couldn't take them to court because they thought they didn't had enough evidence, but I am a person of a bad character with just one traffic offence?
my solicitor who got my PR says that i don't need to be worried, but i think i will explain my situation in a covering letter, i have also asked couple of my colleagues, neighbours and friends, each write a recommendation letter for me and sign it, stating in their letter, what kind of person do they think i am and if they see me as person with a good character.
also giving some references from my charity works i have done in the past and also let the HO know that i have started working voluntarily for St John ambulance.
I hope they see that i am not a person of a bad character.
i will talk to my solicitor to see if he charge me £100 for sending my application then i will have him apply for me as the NCS will charge about £40 anyway.
i have read the UKBA website, it says that you will be eligible if you are stateless, which i think i will be eligible, as i don't have any passport, never had, as when i cam to UK i was asylum seeker and country of my origin will not issue any passport for me as they need my birth certificate and my ID which is confiscated by the authority back home, that is why that although i was granted EEA2 and EEA4 but they always have been stamped on a piece of paper and not on my passport as i don't have one. i couldn't even travel for the past 10 years because of that, in UKBA website it says that naturalisation is not a right but for few circumstances, which one of them is when you are stateless.

iyanu
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Location: London, UK
Nigeria

Post by iyanu » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:39 am

matinuk2, I am really sorry for you for all you have gone through, such expereinces can be really frustrating. I only really pray and hope that all work out for good for you at the end of the day.

Good luck in your application mate!

albertwigs
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Post by albertwigs » Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:20 am

It serves the same purpose as the actual green card for employment and travel purposes, except that it is valid for 1 year until the actual card arrives in mail. Even though it is valid to travel back to the U.S., some airlines may incorrectly ask you to apply for advance parole to return to the U.S., if they are not fully aware of U.S. immigration laws.Even though it is such a simple looking stamp, immigration officers at port of entry can quickly determine whether the stamp is genuine, as the ink used is a security ink. Some port of entry inspectors at a U.S. international airports require a person with the temporary stamp in the passport to go into secondary inspection.

matinuk2
- thin ice -
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:14 pm

Hi

Post by matinuk2 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:42 am

Hi everyone,
i would like to thanks everyone specially albertwigs on information about us entry and stamp which really helped with my question about British citizenship.

i have managed to speak to my solicitor today and have been assured by him that i have no worries, as the hole purpose of check is to make sure the person who apply is not involved in any serious crime, as i said before he also said, who doesn't have a traffic offence, according to him, even he has a traffic offence, he said he had an applicant with a recent drink driving conviction which he was approved, same with CCJ, he said he had lots of applicants who had traffic and CCJ's.
i am still not convinced until i get my citizenship, but thanks everyone again for your advise.

John
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Location: Birmingham, England

Post by John » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:59 pm

i have managed to speak to my solicitor today and have been assured by him that i have no worries, as the hole purpose of check is to make sure the person who apply is not involved in any serious crime
Good luck! You might need it, given the quote I posted earlier in this topic, there is a problem with :-
Offences which would constitute “recklessnessâ€
John

matinuk2
- thin ice -
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:14 pm

Hi

Post by matinuk2 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:14 pm

Hi john
thanks for your advise man, you have really helped me on my PR and i am very grateful.
As you said i really need god on my side to get my Naturalization, but i don't have any other option but to gamble and fill the form and declare the situation and hope for best, as i said i have seen so many crazy stuff by HO, i had my PR approved without even asking for any further documents but i've seen some unfortunate people on this forum that they've been asked for further documents and then at the end their application has been refused too.
as i said before i know the guy being investigated for benefit fraud (he and his partner both) who even i have filled his application and he got approved, or another guy who actually was arrested and cautioned by police for GBH and got his approval, so, i guess i will apply trough NCS and see what happen.

mrlookforward
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Post by mrlookforward » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:24 am

your application is bound to fail. driving without insurance is a serious offence. you have an unspent coviction for driving without insurance, so get ready to loose 720 pounds. but you could do something better than that. do not apply for naturalisation until your conviction is spent and send me 360 pounds for good advice. (you still save 360)

London-er
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Re: Hi

Post by London-er » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:48 pm

matinuk2 wrote:Hi john
thanks for your advise man, you have really helped me on my PR and i am very grateful.
As you said i really need god on my side to get my Naturalization, but i don't have any other option but to gamble and fill the form and declare the situation and hope for best, as i said i have seen so many crazy stuff by HO, i had my PR approved without even asking for any further documents but i've seen some unfortunate people on this forum that they've been asked for further documents and then at the end their application has been refused too.
as i said before i know the guy being investigated for benefit fraud (he and his partner both) who even i have filled his application and he got approved, or another guy who actually was arrested and cautioned by police for GBH and got his approval, so, i guess i will apply trough NCS and see what happen.
Point of correction, you really need God on your side for your naturalization and not god as you stated. God and god are not the same in meaning.
2ndly, I think you should not waste your money because they will find out. Driving without insurance is serious in the UK. I'd rather give the money to charity instead of lousy HO.
However, I wish you the best if you insist.

dr_raihan29
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Post by dr_raihan29 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:56 pm

driving without insurance is far far bigger crime than a police caution or benifit cheat

matinuk2
- thin ice -
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:14 pm

hi

Post by matinuk2 » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:54 pm

Hi everyone and thanks again for all the encouragements given by members and moderators, but i had nothing but a negativity, if the secretary of state thinks like you guys then no one should get their citizenships.
i don't think if driving without insurance is worst then benefit fraud or GBH caution, and i think i will listen to my solicitor advise and risk my £650 and apply for my citizenship, by end of the month, according to him the worst come to worst is that there might be an uncertainty if i am a person of a good character which in that case they will invite me for interview, i will go for it and apply and will update you guys here on my outcome.

thanks again to everyone for your time and advice.

Wanderer
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Ireland

Re: hi

Post by Wanderer » Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:01 pm

matinuk2 wrote: i don't think if driving without insurance is worst then benefit fraud or GBH caution
What? U r f'ing joking? Driving without insurance is a serious crime my friend, all my sympathy for ur sitch has gone now, I hope you are refused.

You should be in jail.
Last edited by Wanderer on Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

droogish
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Post by droogish » Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:00 pm

This is not really about you being a good or bad person. I am sure there are some good people with criminal records, and some bad people without them! This is purely about what is likely to be accepted by the UKBA in their application procedure.

We will normally disregard a single conviction for a minor offence resulting in a bind over,
conditional discharge or relatively small fine or compensation order, if a person is suitable
for citizenship in all other respects. By “minor offencesâ€

matinuk2
- thin ice -
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Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:14 pm

Post by matinuk2 » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:14 pm

I do apologize in advance from everyone who reads this reply for my language.


[Moderator edit : Your language, now deleted, is totally unacceptable on this Board. You are now on "thin ice" and any repeat will lead to you being banned.]

mochyn
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Re: hi

Post by mochyn » Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:09 pm

matinuk2 wrote:Hi everyone and thanks again for all the encouragements given by members and moderators, but i had nothing but a negativity, if the secretary of state thinks like you guys then no one should get their citizenships.
i don't think if driving without insurance is worst then benefit fraud or GBH caution, and i think i will listen to my solicitor advise and risk my £650 and apply for my citizenship, by end of the month, according to him the worst come to worst is that there might be an uncertainty if i am a person of a good character which in that case they will invite me for interview, i will go for it and apply and will update you guys here on my outcome.

thanks again to everyone for your time and advice.
of course driving without insurance is really bad as you have no recourse to help if you hit someone while uninsured and to drive while knowing you are uninsured is reckless and a danger to the public.
We welcome immigrants to this country if they obey the laws.
If you look at the first wave of immigrants from the Indian sub continent, they were nearly all hard working and a credit to the community.I wish I could say the same for the new arrivals.

dr_raihan29
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Post by dr_raihan29 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:16 pm

although none of these are anything to be particularly proud off and definitely a lifelong dent in your reputation, i beg to differ with the op's idea that driving without insurance is less of a crime than a police caution for whatever reason or maybe benifit fraud, the reason being in case of the latter ones only a certain person/ the benifit system is affected but in case of driving without insurance(most of whom ususally drives without proper licence aswell)...........you are a ongoing risk to every1 on the road and this can even cost lives. just my own thoughts though...........

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