first time childs uk application from overseas (Luxembourg)

Hi everyone,

I am so glad I found this forum, I am at my wits end with my son's uk passport application and am wondering if anyone is able to shed light on why my application has taken such a turn.

I was born in the uk, I hold only British nationality. My mother was born in Uganda but also has only ever held British nationality, her father was born in India and naturalised when he moved to Uganda at the age of 20, and then moved to the uk in 1977.

I moved to Luxembourg in 2019 due my husbands work.

My son was born in Jan 2021 and I applied for a uk passport in April 2021, not only did HMPO take the maximum time for processing passports to notify me that they could not process it as they needed my whole life story. Medical records for both my son and I, photographs of all of us from birth to present dated with locations, all of our passports, all of my identification documents such as residency cards, drivers licences, maternity records, applicants great grandparents birth certificates, marriage certificates and naturalisation documents (some of these documents would be over 100 years old)

I tried to fight it with the local MP where I used to live in london and unfortunately they didn't even explain anything to her, but gave her the standard letter they had previously given to me.

Now I've been told that we will have to have an interview, when asked why I have been told due to nationality reasons....

What concerns me is that I have numerous expat friends, British Indians who have exactly the same criteria as me that have not been asked to even provide a tenth of the info as I have, what's worse is they are getting a response and passports processed and delivered within 2-3 weeks.

Is this really a nationality issue or is it something else?
I have never been treated like this before and honestly feel what they have asked for is so intrusive and private, not to mention they are holding most of my ID documents (originals) and not moving fast.

In contrast- My husband applied for a french passport for my son as we are desperate to see my family as they haven't met my baby yet (who is 8 months now) and this was such a smooth, painless, inexpensive (€27) experience and we got the passport in 3 weeks, for the uk i've already spent €350 and still don't have a passport, it all seems so unfair.

Any information or wisdom will be much appreciated, I have spent hours on hold on the phone to HMPO and either I've had to give up because I've waited so long or they haven't been able to help me.

Thanks in advance!

RudyJB wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:55 am

I was born in the uk,

When (month/year) were you born?

Not all British citizens can pass on their British citizenship to their children born abroad automatically. Only British citizens otherwise than by descent can.

So how you acquired British citizenship is important to deciding whether your child born abroad is a British citizen or not.

If the child had been born in the UK, it would have been a British citizen otherwise than by descent automatically and you could have applied for the British passport without a problem.

Also, keep in mind that even if you are a British citizen otherwise than by descent, your child will be a British citizen by descent and will not be able to pass on British citizenship to their children (your grandchildren) born abroad automatically.

Is this really a nationality issue or is it something else?

Very interesting that you have had such a hard time. You have come to the right place to discuss your case. Secret Simon's question about when you were born is very important. We want to know if you were born before 1 Jan 1983. If that is the case, your children are automatically British at birth because you were born in the UK. If you were born on or after 1 Jan 1983 it gets more complicated, but senior members here will still be able to help you, and explain to you if necessary, just why HMPO is being so intrusive. That does not mean HMPO is right, but you will at least understand what is going on here.

I think, judging from your posts, that your son was born in Luxembourg. Can you confirm that? Or at least confirm that your son was born outside the UK.

Thank you HCJNL and secret simon for your reply.

I was born in September 1984 and my son was born in luxembourg in January 2021.

But again Im really baffled because I have friends who are the first generation born in uk, born in 84 and applied from overseas and had no problems at all. They do not have any ancestry born in uk until themselves, their parents and grandparents were born in either india or africa.

Thanks
Rudy

RudyJB wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:28 pm

I was born in September 1984 and my son was born in luxembourg in January 2021.

So you will need proof that not only were you born in the UK, but also that at the time of your birth, at least one of your parents was a British citizen.

So, you will need your child's birth certificate, your birth certificate (to prove that you were born in the UK) and proof of either your father's CUKC status (his CUKC naturalisation certificate should be sufficient) or your mother's CUKC status (which is where all the great-grandparents' documents comes into play).

If your father or you have not got your father's naturalisation certificate, check with the National Archives.

In a worst case scenario, in addition to your father's CUKC naturalisation certificate, you may also need proof that your father resided in the UK for five continuous years before 1983 (as British nationality law before 1983 was much more complex).

Is this really a nationality issue or is it something else?

It is a nationality issue. As mentioned above, British nationality law is complex and merely being a British citizen does not mean that your children inherit that status, especially if born outside the UK. Some very specific set of circumstances (which have changed over time) need to be met to be able to pass on British citizenship to one's children.

RudyJB wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:28 pm

But again Im really baffled because I have friends who are the first generation born in uk, born in 84 and applied from overseas and had no problems at all. They do not have any ancestry born in uk until themselves, their parents and grandparents were born in either india or africa.

They should count their blessings.

Then again, keep in mind that British passports are only prima facie proof of British citizenship and the HMPO may ask for proof of British citizenship (such as what you are being asked to provide) at any future renewal. It has happened in the past to some children born in the UK to EEA citizens, who were issued British passports, but later refused and who were asked for more proof of British citizenship when their passports came up for renewal.

For that reason, you should keep safe all the proof that you submit for the child's passport as not only can the child be asked for such proof at any time in the future, but also they may require it in case they need to register their own children (your grandchildren) as British citizens.

Again, any children born to you in the future within the UK would be British citizens otherwise than by descent and can transmit their British citizenship automatically to one generation outside the UK, whereas any children born to you outside the UK will be British citizens by descent and will not be able to transmit British citizenship automatically to their own children born outside the UK.

Secret Simon, Thank you.

Why the HMPO couldn't explain this to me the numerous times I asked I don't know.
I have never viewed my naiotnality like this and its terribly sad. ON the other hand my husband was able to book an appointment with the french consulate (he is french american) in Luxembourg, provide just a passport photo, his passport and my sons birth certificate and a document from lux government to say we are a family and that's it, €27 later we have a french passport for my son, what a contrast.

HMPO never made me aware that I could've provided my fathers naturalisation documents which a very easily available to me, they only asked for maternal great grand parents birth certificates and marriage certificates, even when asked repeatedly if there was any other way.
HMPO know also know that birth certificates for the great grandparents aren't available because the DOB's are amended in their passports, they have been really unhelpful. and this whole ordeal could've saved me a lot of heart ache and emotional stress had they have just explained it to me.

Thank you so much, again.

RudyJB wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:35 pm

ON the other hand my husband was able to book an appointment with the french consulate (he is french american) in Luxembourg, provide just a passport photo, his passport and my sons birth certificate and a document from lux government to say we are a family and that's it, €27 later we have a french passport for my son, what a contrast.

Different countries have very different approaches to citizenship, as I discussed in another thread a few months back.

As an aside, as your child will be a British citizen by descent, that whole thread may be something to read.

RudyJB wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:35 pm

I have never viewed my naiotnality like this

Many people sail through life not giving that matter a second thought. On the other hand, those of us who have undergone the very document-heavy UK immigration process tend to be very aware of the need to retain and file the necessary paperwork.

RudyJB wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:35 pm

HMPO never made me aware that I could've provided my fathers naturalisation documents which a very easily available to me, they only asked for maternal great grand parents birth certificates and marriage certificates, even when asked repeatedly if there was any other way.

Quite likely, HMPO does not see its role as being to take you through the paperwork. From their (and the Home Office in general) point of view, the onus is on you to know the rules and file the proper paperwork and theirs to merely approve or reject the application based on the documentation provided by you.

Which is why these forums exist, for people who have been on these paths to educate, encourage, warn and advise each other.

Does your French husband have any immigration status in the UK, such as under the EU Settled Status Scheme? Because if not, it will be a revelation to you as to how rough the ride to getting a non-British spouse to the UK can be, if you ever plan to move back to the UK with your family for residence.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:03 pm

As an aside, as your child will be a British citizen by descent, that whole thread may be something to read.

I will give this a read, thank you!

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:03 pm

Does your French husband have any immigration status in the UK, such as under the EU Settled Status Scheme? Because if not, it will be a revelation to you as to how rough the ride to getting a non-British spouse to the UK can be, if you ever plan to move back to the UK with your family for residence.

No he does not, we don't have any intentions of settling in the uk (famous last words) but it is useful to have things prepped for the just in case. I am already aware that it is becoming very difficult for non- british spouses to attain the right to residency/ remain in the uk after brexit.
Is there anything I can do for the just in case as I think the deadline has passed?

I also had a thought, would it have made a difference if I would've applied for my son's passport whilst we were visiting and in the uk? I suppose not as it doesn't change any of the details.

I also had a thought, would it have made a difference if I would've applied for my son's passport whilst we were visiting and in the uk? I suppose not as it doesn't change any of the details.

None at all. In fact applying overseas has one important advantage. They will have requested a copy of your son's French passport when you applied from overseas. If you had applied from the UK they would have asked for the original.

HMPO is not being hostile, by the way, compared to the French authorities. Your son is French because his Dad's French. It is as simple as that. UK Nationality Law, in your case, is more complex.

But it's important to understand that this has nothing to do with your son. This is all about you. They are checking your entitlement to British citizenship. One parent had to be British when you were born. They want proof of that. Your father's naturalization certificate will be a great help.

After HMPO are satisfied that you were British born, your son's British passport will be a formality.