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From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Application

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

Sas Sam
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by Sas Sam » Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:05 pm

Obie wrote:The question of whether a person has PR on the basis of EU law, is a matter of law and not a matter for the Home Office. Provided a person can provide relevant documents for the period they entered and started exercising treaty, the Home Office cannot choose a random date. This will amount to an error.

PR is automatically acquired. It is not dependent on Home office giving it.
Even if I agree with you in terms of the Home Office cannot choose a random date, still there are many questions around this process. Lets say the HO define the start date of status based on something... but why the card doesn't show that start date instead of issue date? Why I don't get a letter with the reason/explanation of that date was set and about the date itself? Why is it so secret? Why do I have to subject access request to get the information what I should get automatically with the PR card?!

I terms of the EU law and provided documents: As I mentioned before, I sent evidences (P60, P45, payslips, etc.) covered my last 7 (almost 8 ) years (since I've been living here in the UK). Nothing changed in my circumstances in the last few years. So I don't understand why my previous years doesn't count...

I cannot do (I don't want to do) anything against HO's decision, also I can wait 2 more months before I try to apply again, but the whole process and requirements are really strange and not clear for me (and I guess for many others). It's not a clear process at all.
EEA(PR) application sent: 07/10/2015 (received 08/10/2015)
Card charged: 09/10/2015
Email from HO: 19/10/2015
PR Card received: 25/11/2015
----
My Naturalisation timeline is here.
My Passport timeline is here.

ohara
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by ohara » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:47 pm

Obie wrote:Provided a person can provide relevant documents for the period they entered and started exercising treaty, the Home Office cannot choose a random date. This will amount to an error.
What lengths will HO go to to ensure the correct date of PR is recorded though? I was under the assumption that you just gave them some evidence of exercising treaty rights and they went "yep fair enough, he's been working for 5 years so he has PR from XXXX date"

I have been in the UK since I was 2 years old. It was a struggle to get evidence of anything I was doing before the year 2000 (I was in primary school 1994-2000). I did give them my entire history in the UK on the form, but aside from a letter stating that I was in secondary school from 2000-2006, I only provided evidence of working for the last 6 years (I have been full time employed since 2008). I can't imagine that HO will record the correct date of my PR, whatever that may be. If my certificate turns up and I go to my NCS appointment and they find out that HO have recorded my PR date as some time in 2015, I am going to be extremely upset.

LilyLalilu
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by LilyLalilu » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:26 pm

It would be helpful if they just changed the design of the DCPR/PR card and recorded the date PR status was actually acquired (according to the documentation provided with the application), not just the issue date...

I think once my DCPR comes through I'll do a SAR to see whether the PR acquisition date has been recorded accurately. Awfully complicated but one should be able to obtain this information via a SAR, isn't it?
All information given is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.

ohara
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by ohara » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:45 am

LilyLalilu wrote:I think once my DCPR comes through I'll do a SAR to see whether the PR acquisition date has been recorded accurately. Awfully complicated but one should be able to obtain this information via a SAR, isn't it?
This is exactly what I am planning to do. I'm actually half tempted to call NCS once my DCPR has arrived and ask if they can check the date they recorded for my PR, so I know whether or not to bother booking an appointment.

alvarez0306
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by alvarez0306 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:15 pm

ohara wrote:
LilyLalilu wrote:I think once my DCPR comes through I'll do a SAR to see whether the PR acquisition date has been recorded accurately. Awfully complicated but one should be able to obtain this information via a SAR, isn't it?
This is exactly what I am planning to do. I'm actually half tempted to call NCS once my DCPR has arrived and ask if they can check the date they recorded for my PR, so I know whether or not to bother booking an appointment.
I am currently in the process of writing up the sar and then sending it off to find out the date that the home office has my permanent residency at. It should in theory be February last year which would mean j can apply for citizenship anytime now.
Hopefully th sar result/response doesn't take too long

ohara
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by ohara » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:39 pm

They have up to 40 days to respond. Don't forget about the AN fee increase in April!

alvarez0306
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by alvarez0306 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:02 pm

ohara wrote:They have up to 40 days to respond. Don't forget about the AN fee increase in April!
Mmmmm 40 days. Well that brings us up to the march time. Then hopefully I'll actually know the date that the home office has my permanent residency at. If it's in February 2015 (as it should be) then I'll bang in the application before April. Fo she's crossed

Federal
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by Federal » Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:47 am

I am somewhat thankful that the PR card date conundrum doesn't apply to me directly (married to British citizen), but I am somewhat concerned that considering how you are asked to disclose the date of your arrival to the UK (and all subsequent movements since then), none of this is recorded on paper officially or otherwise.

I've had several phone conversations with the UKVI folks while attempting to interpret the requirements, and once they said that they will only accept passports (and not ID cards) with the applications, then another person said that ID cards were fine, then another agent said that you need to list all your absences, and finally the last person I spoke to, said that they only care about the past 5 years.

It's fair to say that with different stories coming out of the official mouthpiece, it does little to make me feel that I've ticked all the boxes with my EEA (PR) application, but I live in hope. Did anyone ever receive a phonecall or email from the HO in cases where clarification was needed, or when extra documentation was required?

ohara
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by ohara » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:01 am

Federal wrote:I've had several phone conversations with the UKVI folks while attempting to interpret the requirements
The telephone helpline is notoriously unreliable. It's pointless asking them for advice. I believe that nationals of EEA countries which issue ID cards can travel between member states on these cards, and don't actually need a passport. So it would be stupid for them to require a passport as part of the PR certificate application.

I'm still waiting for mine to come through (been 8 weeks so far) so there's nothing really that I can do at the moment. If UKVI mess it up and record my PR date as anything less than 12 months ago I'm going to be extremely upset.

LilyLalilu
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by LilyLalilu » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:00 am

ohara wrote:
They have up to 40 days to respond. Don't forget about the AN fee increase in April!


Mmmmm 40 days. Well that brings us up to the march time. Then hopefully I'll actually know the date that the home office has my permanent residency at. If it's in February 2015 (as it should be) then I'll bang in the application before April. Fo she's crossed
@ohara/alvarez, I previously did a SAR to obtain my travel dates and it came back within 7 days.
Maybe I was just lucky but hope it doesn't take too long for you guys either, fingers crossed :)
All information given is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.

alvarez0306
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by alvarez0306 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:15 am

LilyLalilu wrote:
ohara wrote:
They have up to 40 days to respond. Don't forget about the AN fee increase in April!


Mmmmm 40 days. Well that brings us up to the march time. Then hopefully I'll actually know the date that the home office has my permanent residency at. If it's in February 2015 (as it should be) then I'll bang in the application before April. Fo she's crossed
@ohara/alvarez, I previously did a SAR to obtain my travel dates and it came back within 7 days.
Maybe I was just lucky but hope it doesn't take too long for you guys either, fingers crossed :)
Lovely thanks for that I'll send it off today and hope it comes back in a week like yours :)

alvarez0306
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by alvarez0306 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:12 am

SAR results came back this morning and confirms that I achieved pr in February 2015 as it should be. So I can go ahead with my apposition to naturalise myself as a British citizenship. I plan on doing sending everything off hopefully this month. Will keep you all updated with my progress

noajthan
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by noajthan » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:21 am

alvarez0306 wrote:SAR results came back this morning and confirms that I achieved pr in February 2015 as it should be. So I can go ahead with my apposition to naturalise myself as a British citizenship. I plan on doing sending everything off hopefully this month. Will keep you all updated with my progress
The suspense is killing me.
Good luck!
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

alvarez0306
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by alvarez0306 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:47 am

noajthan wrote:
alvarez0306 wrote:SAR results came back this morning and confirms that I achieved pr in February 2015 as it should be. So I can go ahead with my apposition to naturalise myself as a British citizenship. I plan on doing sending everything off hopefully this month. Will keep you all updated with my progress
The suspense is killing me.
Good luck!
Haha love the sarcasm. Just noticed the shocking grammar in my previous post. I can assure you they are all typos! :D

noajthan
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by noajthan » Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:26 pm

alvarez0306 wrote:Haha love the sarcasm. Just noticed the shocking grammar in my previous post. I can assure you they are all typos! :D
There are no grammar police here.

Many people are posting & wrestling with immigration matters & government officialdom in a language other than their mother tongue - & I salute them.

And I do really want to see how all the confusion & mixed messages from HO finally works itself out.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

alvarez0306
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by alvarez0306 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:42 pm

noajthan wrote:
alvarez0306 wrote:Haha love the sarcasm. Just noticed the shocking grammar in my previous post. I can assure you they are all typos! :D
There are no grammar police here.

Many people are posting & wrestling with immigration matters & government officialdom in a language other than their mother tongue - & I salute them.

And I do really want to see how all the confusion & mixed messages from HO finally works itself out.
That's very Nobel and kind of you to say so thank you. Very much appreciated

Indianlonly
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by Indianlonly » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:02 am

alvarez0306 wrote:SAR results came back this morning and confirms that I achieved pr in February 2015 as it should be. So I can go ahead with my apposition to naturalise myself as a British citizenship. I plan on doing sending everything off hopefully this month. Will keep you all updated with my progress
Could you tell me please what does it mean SAR and how could I contact them to require about the date of my automatically acquired pr ?

noajthan
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by noajthan » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:14 am

Indianlonly wrote:
alvarez0306 wrote:SAR results came back this morning and confirms that I achieved pr in February 2015 as it should be. So I can go ahead with my apposition to naturalise myself as a British citizenship. I plan on doing sending everything off hopefully this month. Will keep you all updated with my progress
Could you tell me please what does it mean SAR and how could I contact them to require about the date of my automatically acquired pr ?
A SAR is a 'subject access request' which is a right citizens have to request information held about them from official bodies;
in this context, information held by a government department: UKVI.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... mmigration
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

Indianlonly
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by Indianlonly » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:33 pm

noajthan wrote:
Indianlonly wrote:
alvarez0306 wrote:SAR results came back this morning and confirms that I achieved pr in February 2015 as it should be. So I can go ahead with my apposition to naturalise myself as a British citizenship. I plan on doing sending everything off hopefully this month. Will keep you all updated with my progress
Could you tell me please what does it mean SAR and how could I contact them to require about the date of my automatically acquired pr ?
A SAR is a 'subject access request' which is a right citizens have to request information held about them from official bodies;
in this context, information held by a government department: UKVI.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... mmigration
I got you, I have downloaded the first form but I cannot found anywhere in the form that state pr date request !!!

ohara
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by ohara » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:51 am

You don't ask for it specifically, if you request all of the caseworker files, it will be included in that. In Section 2 part A, tick the first 2 boxes (and any others you are interested in).

alvarez0306
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by alvarez0306 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:01 pm

As Ohara states there is no option to ask for it specifically so you tick the option that enables you to get notes on what the case workers have on you (think it's section 2) then on the other section (6 or 5 can't remember exactly ) you further explain the information you are asking for. That's where I put down 'the date in which the home office has I achieved permanent residency'. Good luck

Indianlonly
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by Indianlonly » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:30 pm

I don't know if I should request this form or not as I already have stamped in my passport when I first enter to the kingdom therefor I was granted such a permanent few weeks ago due to 5year in the United so it's obviously shown I have spent 5 m years here plus 6 months the time waiting for my permanent resident card so it's clear that in 2 month I will complete 6 years

alvarez0306
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by alvarez0306 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:32 pm

Indianlonly wrote:I don't know if I should request this form or not as I already have stamped in my passport when I first enter to the kingdom therefor I was granted such a permanent few weeks ago due to 5year in the United so it's obviously shown I have spent 5 m years here plus 6 months the time waiting for my permanent resident card so it's clear that in 2 month I will complete 6 years
If you have it stamped on your passport the actual date in which you achieved permanent residency then that should be the date that the home office has on their systems that you achieved permanent residency (although I was not aware that this happened- are you an eu citizen?). Personally for me it was more peace of mind. I was able to see all the documents that the home office held on me and it clearly stated the date I achieved permanent residency. I will probably include a copy of the sar with my application so that there's no mistake on permanent residency date

Indianlonly
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by Indianlonly » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:54 am

alvarez0306 wrote:
Indianlonly wrote:I don't know if I should request this form or not as I already have stamped in my passport when I first enter to the kingdom therefor I was granted such a permanent few weeks ago due to 5year in the United so it's obviously shown I have spent 5 m years here plus 6 months the time waiting for my permanent resident card so it's clear that in 2 month I will complete 6 years
If you have it stamped on your passport the actual date in which you achieved permanent residency then that should be the date that the home office has on their systems that you achieved permanent residency (although I was not aware that this happened- are you an eu citizen?). Personally for me it was more peace of mind. I was able to see all the documents that the home office held on me and it clearly stated the date I achieved permanent residency. I will probably include a copy of the sar with my application so that there's no mistake on permanent residency date

Indianlonly
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Re: From 12/11 PR Document Required for Citizenship Applicat

Post by Indianlonly » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:57 am

alvarez0306 wrote:
Indianlonly wrote:I don't know if I should request this form or not as I already have stamped in my passport when I first enter to the kingdom therefor I was granted such a permanent few weeks ago due to 5year in the United so it's obviously shown I have spent 5 m years here plus 6 months the time waiting for my permanent resident card so it's clear that in 2 month I will complete 6 years
If you have it stamped on your passport the actual date in which you achieved permanent residency then that should be the date that the home office has on their systems that you achieved permanent residency (although I was not aware that this happened- are you an eu citizen?). Personally for me it was more peace of mind. I was able to see all the documents that the home office held on me and it clearly stated the date I achieved permanent residency. I will probably include a copy of the sar with my application so that there's no mistake on permanent residency date
I'm non eu , only stamp in my passport the first entry in 2010 so it's obvious now 6 years in the United . Is it say clearly the date of your acquired pr in SAR?

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