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Grandparents details!!!

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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Tra2003
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Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:33 pm

Grandparents details!!!

Post by Tra2003 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:37 pm

I have just recently applied for first adult passport after naturalization. I applied through check and send at my local post office, the guy there insisted that i give my grand parents details which i said i had no idea about. He insisted i write it on a piece of paper. He supplied the piece of paper and pen and i had to write that grandparents details are unknown and that i am applying on the basis of naturalization as a British Citizen.

I am kind of worried that my passport application will come back asking for the granparents details that i don't have.
Has anyone been through this, writing and including a note fot grandparents details in their pasport application.

Gyfrinachgar
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Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:32 pm
Location: Wales

Re: Grandparents details!!!

Post by Gyfrinachgar » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:56 pm

Tra2003 wrote:I have just recently applied for first adult passport after naturalization. I applied through check and send at my local post office, the guy there insisted that i give my grand parents details which i said i had no idea about. He insisted i write it on a piece of paper. He supplied the piece of paper and pen and i had to write that grandparents details are unknown and that i am applying on the basis of naturalization as a British Citizen.

I am kind of worried that my passport application will come back asking for the granparents details that i don't have.
Has anyone been through this, writing and including a note fot grandparents details in their pasport application.
Depends on what grounds one has been granted citizenship. For the vast majority of applications this information is not required and voluntary. Since you made an application based on standard requirements (residency and such), the guy was plainly wrong. No need to worry at all.

Tra2003
Newbie
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:33 pm

Re: Grandparents details!!!

Post by Tra2003 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:04 pm

Gyfrinachgar wrote:
Tra2003 wrote:I have just recently applied for first adult passport after naturalization. I applied through check and send at my local post office, the guy there insisted that i give my grand parents details which i said i had no idea about. He insisted i write it on a piece of paper. He supplied the piece of paper and pen and i had to write that grandparents details are unknown and that i am applying on the basis of naturalization as a British Citizen.

I am kind of worried that my passport application will come back asking for the granparents details that i don't have.
Has anyone been through this, writing and including a note fot grandparents details in their pasport application.
Depends on what grounds you were granted citizenship. For the vast majority of applications this information is not required and voluntary. Since you made an application based on standard requirements (residency and such), the guy was plainly wrong and you don't need to worry at all.

Thanks Gyfrinachgar, the guy did ask me on what basis i got my British citizenship, which i told him it was neither based on parents or grandparents, he still insisted that i include a letter as this was requested by the IPS :shock:
Well i included a note and just keeping my fingers crossed that they don't come back asking for details of grandparents. I have read so many times on this forum that grandparents details are not required if naturalization was not obtained through decent of parents or grandparents, so i was so supprised when i was asked to include the info at my local post office.

Gyfrinachgar
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Location: Wales

Re: Grandparents details!!!

Post by Gyfrinachgar » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:09 pm

Tra2003 wrote:Thanks Gyfrinachgar, the guy did ask me on what basis i got my British citizenship, which i told him it was neither based on parents or grandparents, he still insisted that i include a letter as this was requested by the IPS :shock:
The official IPS booklet makes clear that the grandparents are only relevant in certain circumstances (see page 12 and 15) - none of them seems to apply to your situation.

mkhan84
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Post by mkhan84 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:34 pm

hi one of my friend's sister applied for bc and her application was refused as she didnt give details of grandpa. you have to follow the book. she had to as she was born in pakistan outside uk

Gyfrinachgar
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Location: Wales

Post by Gyfrinachgar » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:20 pm

mkhan84 wrote:she had to as she was born in pakistan outside uk
That alone doesn't make sense. Grandparents details are only required if claiming citizenship by descent, not if being naturalised as a British citizen by the standard requirements. In most cases this information is not required (see above). This is is also stated in the online application form (something roughly in line with "you don't have to fill this out, but should this information be required in your case, it may delay your application if you don't submit it"). If you google this, there are many reports of people who did not supply this information and got their passports without problems (here is just one example I found). In the case of your friend's sister, the situation (i.e. the grounds of citizenship) must have been different than in the OP's case.

Mel2012
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Post by Mel2012 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:17 pm

Would you let us know how did you get on with your British passport Application? Is there any cases that they can refuse you because of that reason?

hsmp28122006
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Post by hsmp28122006 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:42 pm

Bumping this discussion up!

I don't see anywhere in passport application guidance that states that naturalised citizens don't require to provide grand parent details.

Anyone - please help me get the document that does state so.

Thanks for your help!

renu
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Post by renu » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:17 pm

you don't need to, if you don't know. i applied for my son passport and i didnt put the details....
and if IPS need the details they will contact u.

hsmp28122006
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Post by hsmp28122006 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:24 pm

renu wrote:you don't need to, if you don't know..
Thanks. Is it part of their policy guidance? Where? I understand British authorities go by rule book.

ravikd
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Post by ravikd » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:28 pm

How do they check whether the dates given by you are hypothetical or actual. Hope you understand my point.
hsmp28122006 wrote:
renu wrote:you don't need to, if you don't know..
Thanks. Is it part of their policy guidance? Where? I understand British authorities go by rule book.

hsmp28122006
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Post by hsmp28122006 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:20 pm

ravikd wrote:How do they check whether the dates given by you are hypothetical or actual. Hope you understand my point.
hsmp28122006 wrote:
renu wrote:you don't need to, if you don't know..
Thanks. Is it part of their policy guidance? Where? I understand British authorities go by rule book.
That's a different question. Filling up the form and verification are two different things. My understanding is we should comply by the rules while filling up the form and the rule clearly says that if your parents were born before 1983 or abroad, you need to provide grand parent details - it doesn't say that you don't need to provide this information if you are a residency-based naturalised person.

bobobo
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Post by bobobo » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:02 pm

Grand parent details are not required period. no point in making assumptions or trying to give hypothetical dates.
look at pages 14/15 here
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg ... 184487.pdf

loads of people have applied without these details
hsmp28122006 wrote:
ravikd wrote:How do they check whether the dates given by you are hypothetical or actual. Hope you understand my point.
hsmp28122006 wrote:
renu wrote:you don't need to, if you don't know..
Thanks. Is it part of their policy guidance? Where? I understand British authorities go by rule book.
That's a different question. Filling up the form and verification are two different things. My understanding is we should comply by the rules while filling up the form and the rule clearly says that if your parents were born before 1983 or abroad, you need to provide grand parent details - it doesn't say that you don't need to provide this information if you are a residency-based naturalised person.

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:04 pm

hsmp28122006 wrote: I don't see anywhere in passport application guidance that states that naturalised citizens don't require to provide grand parent details.
Check the Table of supporting documents on page 13 of the guide. There is a big X under grandparents details for naturalised citizens. The application form is not very clear but the guide is.

hsmp28122006
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Post by hsmp28122006 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:57 pm

Jambo wrote:
hsmp28122006 wrote: I don't see anywhere in passport application guidance that states that naturalised citizens don't require to provide grand parent details.
Check the Table of supporting documents on page 13 of the guide. There is a big X under grandparents details for naturalised citizens. The application form is not very clear but the guide is.
Thanks. Yes we don't need to provide any supporting document in that case but how does it mean we don't need to provide the information in the form at all?

I remember I provided a range of the information in Form AN1 that I didn't have to provide supporting documents about. For instance: last five years' addresses in UK.

Roney
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Post by Roney » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:36 am

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg ... 175798.pdf

See page 13 Section 4 Titled :Parents’ details for all first-timecustomers and all children under 16

If you read second Para under the above header , I think it clearly states we do need to fill Grandparents details.

Unless I have made a mistake in interpreting it?

sujeetp
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Location: Edinburgh

Post by sujeetp » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:47 am

Hi,
Second Para says "If both parents were born after 31 December 1982, or were born outside the UK,write the full name, town, country, date of birth and date of marriage of thegrandparents (or details of the parents’ claim to British nationality) in section 8 ofthe application form."

Based on the above it looks like IPS expects Grandparents details. Please suggest.

Regards
Sujeet

Somudro
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Post by Somudro » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:58 am

sujeetp wrote:Hi,
Second Para says "If both parents were born after 31 December 1982, or were born outside the UK,write the full name, town, country, date of birth and date of marriage of thegrandparents (or details of the parents’ claim to British nationality) in section 8 ofthe application form."

Based on the above it looks like IPS expects Grandparents details. Please suggest.

Regards
Sujeet
I agree with you. Nowhere it is clearly said that ur grandparents details are not necessary.

barnaby
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Post by barnaby » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:21 am

Somudro wrote:I agree with you. Nowhere it is clearly said that ur grandparents details are not necessary.
That's just because the passport form instructions are very badly written. The fact is that grandparents' details are not needed in these cases.

insomniac
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Post by insomniac » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:38 am

barnaby wrote:
Somudro wrote:I agree with you. Nowhere it is clearly said that ur grandparents details are not necessary.
That's just because the passport form instructions are very badly written. The fact is that grandparents' details are not needed in these cases.
Hi all,

I thought I'd just add my 2 cents since I faced exactly this problem yesterday. I got my naturalisation certificate a couple months ago and finally got round to applying for a passport.

The fact of the matter is that the supporting documentation (both the application form and the IPS booklet) is ambiguous.

Technically for naturalised citizens the details of grandparents should be unncecessary since citizenship has not been earned on the basis of ancestry. However, this matter is not clarified one way or the other in any of the docs.

So I called up the IPS helpline and spoke to someone who was extremely helpful. I explained my situation, that all four of my grandparents were deceased and I didn't have easy access to their birth/marriage records.

I was told that it's not a problem - this information is asked not for ancestry but to establish bonafides and may be tested during the passport interview.

The official told me to write a letter adding what I could about my grandparents details (names, etc) and stating whatever other details are unknown. This is exactly what I did - I added a typed sheet along with my application.

Hope this helps.

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