Naturalisation document (cert of birth)

Maxim88 · Post by **Maxim88** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:41 pm

Hello everyone,

I have a quick question about application for naturalisation/citizenship. Do you have to provide the original birth certificate for this application (is the birth certificate from home country mandatory)? Or would a national passport suffice? I am eligible to apply as I have been on ILR for over a year now, but I seem to have lost my original birth certificate and I don't think I will be able to get a duplicate from the UK (I may have to travel to my home country for this, which I am not planning anytime soon). Can I still apply without the birth certificate? Anyone had experience of a similar situation and can provide some insight and guidance?

Many thanks in advance.

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:53 pm

Birth certificate is NOT required for naturalisation based on 5 years residence.

Maxim88 · Post by **Maxim88** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:41 pm

Thank you CR001.

Is birth certificate required during the passport application at all?

Maxim88 · Post by **Maxim88** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:54 pm

Also, if birth certificate is not needed for the naturalisation process, how do they (home office) determine country/town of birth in the citizenship certificate? My passport only shows country of birth and not town of birth. Is this detail actually needed for naturalisation application (or am I overthinking this)? I am just suddenly concerned that I no longer have my original birth certificate and I don't want this to hinder my naturalisation and subsequently the process of obtaining British passport.

many thanks

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:28 am

Maxim88 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:41 pm
Thank you CR001.

Is birth certificate required during the passport application at all?

Not needed.

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:28 am

Maxim88 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:54 pm
Also, if birth certificate is not needed for the naturalisation process, how do they (home office) determine country/town of birth in the citizenship certificate? My passport only shows country of birth and not town of birth. Is this detail actually needed for naturalisation application (or am I overthinking this)? I am just suddenly concerned that I no longer have my original birth certificate and I don't want this to hinder my naturalisation and subsequently the process of obtaining British passport.

many thanks

You declare details in the online AN form. You do not need Birth Certificate in your case.

Maxim88 · Post by **Maxim88** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:17 pm

Hi CULLINAN,

Many thanks for your answers above.

Are you saying that I do not need my Birth Certificate at all when applying both for British citizenship and then for British passport? Is this really so (I mean, this is great for me if that's the case as I don't have my birth certificate, but do authorities not require an original Birth Certificate for such important decisions)?

I perused some of the discussions within this section of the forum, and seen people saying that their British passport application has been delayed because of issues related to the verification of their birth certificates (I think they were nationals of Pakistan) - what should I make of those discussions which say Birth Certificate is needed (and they need to be verified) for Passport applications? Or is it the case that some applicants need it and some don't?

Many thanks in advance, and sorry for the many questions.

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:20 pm

Are you saying that I do not need my Birth Certificate at all when applying both for British citizenship and then for British passport?

No you do not.

Is this really so (I mean, this is great for me if that's the case as I don't have my birth certificate, but do authorities not require an original Birth Certificate for such important decisions)?

You only need your passport. Not sure why you are overthinking this process.

I perused some of the discussions within this section of the forum, and seen people saying that their British passport application has been delayed because of issues related to the verification of their birth certificates (I think they were nationals of Pakistan) - what should I make of those discussions which say Birth Certificate is needed (and they need to be verified) for Passport applications? Or is it the case that some applicants need it and some don't?

This is specific to IRISH naturalisation and has nothing to do with British citizenship by naturalisation.

Maxim88 · Post by **Maxim88** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:42 pm

Hi CR001, thank you so much for the responses.

There is one technical detail that worries me - and that's why I am asking these questions. I noticed that in the British passport it shows the "place of birth" as in the city/town of birth. However, my current national passport does not show the country nor the city of my birth; it only shows the nationality. This means that technically I don't have a document from my country that shows or confirms the city/country of my birth. But these details are shown both in the British citizenship certificate and British passport. So how to they confirm my "place of birth" if this is not stated in the passport? [the only official documents that show city and country of my birth are my ILR and UK Driving licence - but note that these were self-declared, I do not remember sending my birth certificate for these; in fact, I do not remember using my birth certificate at all in UK for any purpose].

Could this technical issue I describe above be a hindrance in both applications, and therefore require me to provide my original birth certificate?

thanks again.

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:50 pm

CULLINAN wrote: ↑
Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:28 am

Maxim88 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:54 pm
Also, if birth certificate is not needed for the naturalisation process, how do they (home office) determine country/town of birth in the citizenship certificate? My passport only shows country of birth and not town of birth. Is this detail actually needed for naturalisation application (or am I overthinking this)? I am just suddenly concerned that I no longer have my original birth certificate and I don't want this to hinder my naturalisation and subsequently the process of obtaining British passport.

many thanks
You declare details in the online AN form. You do not need Birth Certificate in your case.

This has already been answered. My certificate states what I put in the form when I applied for citizenship and passport.

You really are overthinking. Remember ukvi have a lot more information about you than you think, they check everything going back to the first application you made as well as many other government agencies.

Maxim88 · Post by **Maxim88** » Sun May 23, 2021 10:19 am

Dear all,

Couple of questions regarding my upcoming citizenship application. I am considering making my application and leaving the country for up to 2 months to visit my home country therefore my questions relate to this aspect.

1) Can I apply (+ submit my biometrics), and while the application is pending leave the UK for around 6-8 weeks?

2) Do they notify of the outcome by email or post?

3) If they notify of the outcome by post [presuming the outcome is positive, and ask me to arrange the ceremony, etc.] and if at that time I am not in the UK to pick up the mail [and won't be for another 6-8 weeks], how long do I have to respond to this and arrange the ceremony? I am just thinking that if they notify of the outcome by email, then there shouldn't be a problem as I could make arrangements to come back to UK earlier to deal with it; but I am not sure how to manage this if they respond by post and I am not in UK to see it.

secret.simon · Post by **secret.simon** » Sun May 23, 2021 12:55 pm

Maxim88 wrote: ↑
Sun May 23, 2021 10:19 am
1) Can I apply (+ submit my biometrics), and while the application is pending leave the UK for around 6-8 weeks?

Yes, but it would be unwise. You will need to return to the UK for the citizenship ceremony + applying for a UK passport. And given the rapidity and unpredictability with which lockdowns and travel bans are announced, I would not risk it.

Maxim88 wrote: ↑
Sun May 23, 2021 10:19 am
2) Do they notify of the outcome by email or post?

People have reported both.

Maxim88 wrote: ↑
Sun May 23, 2021 10:19 am
3) If they notify of the outcome by post [presuming the outcome is positive, and ask me to arrange the ceremony, etc.] and if at that time I am not in the UK to pick up the mail [and won't be for another 6-8 weeks], how long do I have to respond to this and arrange the ceremony? I am just thinking that if they notify of the outcome by email, then there shouldn't be a problem as I could make arrangements to come back to UK earlier to deal with it; but I am not sure how to manage this if they respond by post and I am not in UK to see it.

21 days to contact the council to arrange the ceremony and 6 months to attend the ceremony (up from the usual 3 months due to the pandemic). If you are not in the UK, you should have a family member or a friend regularly check your post.

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Sun May 23, 2021 4:08 pm

I agree with @secret.simon who stated the uncertainty about travel conditions given corona, but I believe travelling for 6-8 weeks after application is pretty doable.

It can take up to 6 months after submission to get a decision letter. Majority get a decision in 2-4 months though.

Then you have to wait another 3 months to get the invitation letter. So that takes you to a minimum of 5-7 months.

After you receive the ceremony invitation, you have to book a ceremony within 21 days and have 6 months to attend one (even the 21 days rule is pretty flexible given corona). The councils may take another 1-3 months to offer a place. Overall the procedure to reach ceremony can take 6-10 months or more.

Travelling for 2 months after application submission and biometrics submission, leaving aside travel restrictions (that is personal choice to weigh the risk), should be easily doable.

Maxim88 · Post by **Maxim88** » Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:07 pm

Hi all,

I am in the process of filling out my AN form, and there is the following question which I need some advise on:

"Have you made any previous UK immigration applications in the UK or abroad?"

Firstly - I have listed 3 previous applications, but I have more which I don't have any paperwork to see the reference numbers; do i have to list ALL previous application (from the very beginning I came to the UK)?

Secondly - what if I don't have reference numbers of very first applications (that were done by post at the time); would giving them details of latest 2-3 be sufficient? Or will this create an issue?

thanks

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:49 pm

You are required to list ALL UK applications you have made.

I am fairly sure the forms says "if known" for reference numbers.

Maxim88 · Post by **Maxim88** » Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:13 pm

Thank you CR001,

To clarify - to my knowledge i have made around 8-9 applications, from student to Tier 2 to ILR, (including the very first application for entry clearance from outside the UK), should I list them all (even though for some of them I only remember the year and that is it)? I also had one application which was rejected - should I include that also?

There is another question that is bothering me - "Have you had any other work over the past 10 years or since you came to the UK?" - does this mean employment covering only the past 10 years, or from the very beginning when I entered the UK (which was over 10 years ago in 2007)? I am confused because the formulation of this question in paper/postal application form is different, which is as follows - "Employment history in UK during past 10 years, or since date of entry if you have been here for less than 10 years". So, am I to list/cover only the last 10 years?

Lastly, there is a question in section about Trips outside the UK, which is about first arriving to the UK - "When did you first arrive in the UK?" - does this mean literally the very first time I came to the UK as a student (in 2007), or when I arrived 5 years ago as per residence requirement, or something else?

many thanks for your time forks.

alterhase58 · Post by **alterhase58** » Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:21 pm

Maxim88 wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:13 pm
Thank you CR001,

To clarify - to my knowledge i have made around 8-9 applications, from student to Tier 2 to ILR, (including the very first application for entry clearance from outside the UK), should I list them all (even though for some of them I only remember the year and that is it)? I also had one application which was rejected - should I include that also?

There is another question that is bothering me - "Have you had any other work over the past 10 years or since you came to the UK?" - does this mean employment covering only the past 10 years, or from the very beginning when I entered the UK (which was over 10 years ago in 2007)? I am confused because the formulation of this question in paper/postal application form is different, which is as follows - "Employment history in UK during past 10 years, or since date of entry if you have been here for less than 10 years". So, am I to list/cover only the last 10 years?
Correct - it's the 10 years back from the application date.

Lastly, there is a question in section about Trips outside the UK, which is about first arriving to the UK - "When did you first arrive in the UK?" - does this mean literally the very first time I came to the UK as a student (in 2007), or when I arrived 5 years ago as per residence requirement, or something else?
Date from which you stayed in the UK for good - five years ago if I read correctly.
many thanks for your time forks.

Maxim88 · Post by **Maxim88** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:12 am

Thank you alterhase58,

Just to clarify - if I have been in the UK more than 10 years (14 years to be exact), is there a requirement to mention employment history that goes more than 10 years back from application date? Or just the last 10 years is sufficient? I am confused because of the way this questions is asked in the online form - "Have you had any other work over the past 10 years or since you came to the UK?", however in the paper application it is clearly asking for only last 10 years - "Employment history in UK during past 10 years, or since date of entry if you have been here for less than 10 years".

I would really appreciate other members' advice on this please.

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:16 am

There is nothing confusing.

It is the last 10 years only. The second part of the question is clearly for those who have been in the UK for less than 10 years.

Maxim88 · Post by **Maxim88** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:07 pm

Thank you for clarifying this CR001,

Please help me out with this one as well - I have been a PhD student from Sep 2010 until May 2014 when my full time employment (in the same university) started. While I was a PhD, i was receiving a monthly allowance from the University as a stipend/bursary (standard PhD scholarship). Is this regarded as employment and therefore needs to be included in the employment history?

While being a PhD student, I was also a tutor (part time teacher) and was paid for teaching some classes, it was not a guaranteed employment where I received monthly salary but I only worked the numbers of hours I was allowed during term time (and received payslip every time I was paid) - many PhD students do some form of teaching for which they are paid, this is standard practice in UK Universities. Am i correct in thinking that this needs to be included in the employment history? Also, I don't know exactly when I started being a tutor, but my very first official payslip for this job, with PAYE references etc., is dated December 2011, which was for work carried out in previous months; so my guess is that I started being a Tutor from the start of academic year which is typically September - can I put this as a start of my Tutor employment? Or should I put the date I received my first payslip for doing this job (i.e. December 2011)?

If so, does this look ok for my employment history?

- Lecturer - from May 2014 until now (University AAA)
- Tutor - September 2011 until May 2014 (Same University)

thank you again!

Maxim88 · Post by **Maxim88** » Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:39 am

Dear CR001, and other moderators,

I would be grateful if you could please advice on the questions above.

many thanks

Maxim88 · Post by **Maxim88** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:22 pm

Dear gurus,

I have the following quick question and would appreciate your help:

When completing the naturalisation form online, there is a section on Documents which outlines what documents need to be provided. One of those documents is "Proof of living in the UK for Mr XXX for 5 years", and it says that if you are a Non-EEA National, your passport needs to be included. It also says that "If you do not have your passport or your passport is not stamped when you entered the UK, you need to include letters (for example, from your employer or government department) as proof.

Interestingly, my passport was not stamped when I entered the UK from abroad around 1 month ago. I even asked the border control official who checked my fingerprints etc. why my passport is not being stamped, and he said that they do not put a stamp if a person has a settled status/ILR. This is a little strange and was a new rule for me as I always had my passport stamped before receiving ILR. I have a non-EU passport and travelled only once outside the UK after receiving ILR and this is the only time when my passport was not stamped on entry to the UK. On all previous occasions when I was on Tier 2 Visa and student visas before that, my passport was always stamped on return to the UK.

My question is - is this lack of one entry stamp on my passport an issue?

many thanks

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:25 pm

It's not a big issue.

Maxim88 · Post by **Maxim88** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:33 pm

Hi CR001,

Thank you, but if possible can you be more specific please?

Is it something I need to address before submitting my application? Or should I leave it as it is, without drawing attention to it (unnecessarily)?

Surely they have a system where they can see who entered the country and when, if they need to?!

thanks

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:38 pm

It's not an issue. Your overthinking. Simply complete the absences accurately. UKVI have means to check your travel.

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