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NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny

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muzakhaa
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by muzakhaa » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:10 am

sagareva wrote:
Universal soldier wrote:
sagareva wrote:
If you all turn to the fate of those who filed before 11th December and told their apps were straightforward, then thanks to John Vine they were all placed on hold and sent letters asking to "explain how they were supporting themselves"? That was an attempt to fish for admission of illegal working, especially since letters called for "payslips".

These people all mostly got legal advice to respond with insistence that they relied on relatives and friends for support during the relevant periods (as indeed many of them were).
Then can you show us on this forum those ones who filed before 11th December and now they are being asked to provide evidence that how they supported themselves??
My assumption is more authenticated and according to which they actually want to recover the unpaid taxes and taxes shown on bogus activities to get earning points for tier1 extensions. In my previous post i already presented their 2010-2015 tax evasion avoidance strategy. This section i believe is the best measure for them to stop letting the taxes be cheated in future even leads to recovery. And i believe during 2015-2016 year the tax revenue will reach to highest level.

I had at least 2 clients come to me from this forum who were EXACTLY asked to provide how they were supporting themselves on applications made before 11th december after 3 years of lawful residence (both BC spouses with previous student overstays)

i also had email correspondence and calls from several more forum readers who emailed me their similar letters they received, the latest guy calling quoted a letter in slightly nastier tone than the ones i have seen before -- that was all after posting here about it,
as this has been subject to several huge threads here in this forum over the last 6 months. use a search button.

I also remember reading about it here in this forum in this thread that people exactly got these letters and some were even unfortunate enough to actually send payslips, believe it or not

i have been following this one since December and i know i am right
I understand this now my question is from the last 10 years I have records of 8 Years of my employment with start and end dates. However I dont remember the start and end dates of the previous jobs neither the addersses of employers as both were customer services type of business and both are no longer in operation. I donot have any employment letter etc. for them. So what should I do in this case.
- Just write down the dates what I can remember for my employment history ( e.g. 8 Years of employment 2007-2015). In this case do not provide the remaining 2 years (2005 - 2007) of date.
OR
- For the first 2 years ( 2005-2007 ), write down the dates of employment start date based on month the application I am making e.g. 07/2005 but I did switch to other employer in 2006 but I need to again workout on these dates and provide the remaing 8 years as well which i have start and end dates either in dd/mm/yy format.

Your advise will be much appreciated.

muzakhaa
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by muzakhaa » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:27 am

Hi Sagareva,
Ok I found the following article posted by you in December 2014. For questions regarding working hours etc. answers the concerns in 4 (a) (B). Please read the article below.

HO on planned changes to nationality casework process (!)

Postby sagareva » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:37 am
Must-read for anyone applying for citizenship in 2015: Home Office published their responce to the Chief Inspector's criticism of naturalisation casework, which received so much media coverage before Christmas
.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... sework.pdf

From reading this document, we can see what can change in HO's "back office" processing of naturalisation applications in the coming months. Some notable changes would really be changes in caseworking procedure, and not require any legislative process -- yet, they may have significant impact on individual outcomes, depending of course on each applicant's circumstances.

The original report (http://icinspector.independent.gov.uk/w ... rt-web.pdf) which was subject to so much speculation, critisized HO naturalisation casework on five major points, some of which Home Office promised to address:

(1) that a huge reliance was placed on self-declaration, eg -- apparently -- in the present procedure, unless applicants declares financial problems, CCJs etc, checks are not made to detect them;

***********HO responds with promise to introduce credit history checks on pilot basis within 6 months. This can have potentially disastrous consequences, first of all of course because credit bureau data is full of mistakes, duplicates, inconsistencies and utter falsehood -- because that system was never designed to carry out government functions. Second, nothing good ever comes of outsourcing any bits of government functions to private companies (think G4S etc). ***********

(2) That no attempt is made to verify applicants' criminal history in "home country". Certificates were not required and self-admissions were never followed up to verify circumstances.

This is of course a reference to the fact that generally, unlike US and many others, UK does nto require criminal hstory certificates from countries of prior residence at any point during immigration process.
This is a policy problem rather than application problem -- Daily Mail reports about "100,000 murderers receiving citizenship in error" make it very hard to understand, but there is no suggestion here that any error has occurred, really. Vine's report is full of emotional but legally un-qualified remarks, such as "one applicant previously admitted fleeing his country after stabbing a man, which is absolutely unacceptable". There is no mention of reasons and circumstances in which the stabbing occurred (which could have been in self-defense etc).

***HO responds by saying that , while they do not intend at this stage to start requiring foreign criminality certificates, **ANY** self-admission by an applicant of a foreign conviction or trouble with the law will now trigger a refusal, even if it cannot be verified **** AND **

*** applicants' original paper files from previous applications will now be recalled to be reviewed manually during citizenship consideration, in recognition that CID -- the caseworking database -- contains incomplete and often inaccurate information about contents of those files. This can spell major delays IMHO. ***

(3) That referees were never checked.

**HO responds by saying that they will within a few months introduce automatic PNC -- eg criminal history checks -- for referees. This means that any referees that have court fines etc may become disqualified. This can have major impact on ability to find referees and of course you do not really know many of your potential referees history to be able to predict what can turn up!*****

(4) That some applicants who have "poor immigration history" and particularly "history of non-compliance with immigration rules, illegal working etc" were given citizenship. This is a ridiculous complaint of course, as people who are given citizenship at that stage already have permanent residence and so all their prior immigration history problems will have been resolved at ILR stage.

****However HO now says that
(a) where people have history of illegal residence, overstaying, illegal working that will, if within qualifying period, mean that they will not meet the residence requirements, Previously, it would have been possible to meet party of qualifying period with irregular residence, plus of course there are people who violate rules inadvertedly, for instance who filed an application for extension and it was rejected as invalid, or whose asylum claims were denied unjustly and who were later granted DL. These people will all have to wait longer. Those where immigration non-compliance was historic, it will have impact on their character suitability profile.
(b) new risk profile system will be develop to target some naturalisation applicants for character suitability interviews. historic non-compliance with immigration rules will cause applicant to be so targeted ******

(5) that, in cases where deception was later "detected" that had been successfull on original application and citizenship was granted , decisions have been often made afterwards to not pursue cancellation or deprivation of citizenship, allegedly out of embarassment --as Vine thinks -- that HO had been originally deceived. The real reason of course may lay in that HO has most often no proof of any kind of such deception in most cases, and certainly not enough to sustain a major action such as de-naturalisation.

***HO now says they will return to these cases and pursue deprivation. This is quite major, as many people involved in "these cases" may potentially have no idea, especially if allegations were made anonymously against them or inferred from public domain etc etc. ****
My further analysis and answers to your questions at http://www.noadvertisingspammer.org.uk
** I am a regulated immigration adviser ** However comments posted on this forum are of general nature ONLY, and should NOT be construed as legal advice ** Free walk-in advice clinic SUNDAY 28/06/15 **

cool mind

Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by cool mind » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:05 pm

Guys first of all try to kick out this marketing agent/solicitor (sagareva) who just causing confusion or fearing the members maybe for marketing reason and such people a lot in tier 4 forum of this website. Kick him out. How come if a person who not remember his employment dates in past or get help from relatives in past for funds will have to find payslips and then send that how they support themselves. All these documents are irrelevant and in past many students get help from relative who now now exist in UK or no longer in their relation then what proof they need of that. This trick is to recover and detect fake tax organisations and tier 1 applicants including fake entrepreneur who run fake bogus companies. What ukba will do is to match with these figures of tax, salaries, dividend, bonus with hmrc that the applicants claim for visas. Visitors and asylum seekers may be in danger too.

ukswus
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by ukswus » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:37 pm

cool mind wrote:Guys first of all try to kick out this marketing agent/solicitor (sagareva) who just causing confusion or fearing the members maybe for marketing reason and such people a lot in tier 4 forum of this website. Kick him out. How come if a person who not remember his employment dates in past or get help from relatives in past for funds will have to find payslips and then send that how they support themselves. All these documents are irrelevant and in past many students get help from relative who now now exist in UK or no longer in their relation then what proof they need of that. This trick is to recover and detect bad quality tax organisations and tier 1 applicants including bad quality entrepreneur who run bad quality bogus companies. What ukba will do is to match with these figures of tax, salaries, dividend, bonus with hmrc that the applicants claim for visas. Visitors and asylum seekers may be in danger too.
This is completely uncalled for. Sagareva, being a solicitor, has given a lot of useful advisce (for free) on this forum, and it's not up to you (or anyone else, except the moderators) to decide who should remain, or who should be kicked out of the forum.

Universal soldier
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by Universal soldier » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:09 pm

These all are so called ingredients mixed up into Good Character for pre-naturalization applicants but how about for post naturalizations people. I bet with everyone that if they check the good character of their own people ranging from councillor to MP, from mp to minister then all of them will be failed? There must be good character criteria for post naturalizations holders even passport holders. No body is 100% angle even policy maker. That's all from me.

Yours sincerely

Universal soldier

Manka10
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by Manka10 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:41 pm

Universal soldier wrote:I bet with everyone that if they check the good character of their own people ranging from councillor to MP, from mp to minister then all of them will be failed? There must be good character criteria for post naturalizations holders even passport holders. No body is 100% angle even policy maker.
Your argument is baseless and out of context, people who were born here have a right to live and work here no matter how they are.
Why the policy-makers or the powers-that-be would want someone of bad character to come to live and work here? Would you want to make your own life miserable out of choice?!?
Anyway, the choice is yours, if you don't want to put up with all this "nonsense" then why apply to become a BC?
You can stay happy in whatever situation you are no matter at what point of the compass you live so don't take out your frustration here
Manka

chocolateorange88
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by chocolateorange88 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:46 pm

we apply for BC tomorrow. printed the form out last week got it all ready...to find out two days ago the form changed on June 4th so had to reprint it all... quickly get my references back to be told by the NCS when I enquired about the form after, that I could have used my March/April form until 25th June. I was like, oh no way!!!!

I'm still using the new form though.

cs95tdg
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by cs95tdg » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:35 pm

yesilgozlerim wrote:we apply for BC tomorrow. printed the form out last week got it all ready...to find out two days ago the form changed on June 4th so had to reprint it all... quickly get my references back to be told by the NCS when I enquired about the form after, that I could have used my March/April form until 25th June. I was like, oh no way!!!!

I'm still using the new form though.
So they've issued another version just a few days after the one in May! Did you by any chance notice what the difference was between the two, as you filled them both? It does seem difficult to keep up with what changes the HO are making these days... If only they included an addendum explaining what they were changing/adding/correcting each time they issued a new version, it would make everyone's life much easier.

cool mind

Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by cool mind » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:38 pm

No.
Form is same may version. They are not so stupid although they are to change another version in June.

cs95tdg
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by cs95tdg » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:46 pm

That's good to hear, it looks like the change history only shows the AN booklet as updated on June 4th. (I wouldn't put it past them though, as they have in the past published forms within a few days of each other to correct mistakes)

ukswus
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by ukswus » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:20 pm

cool mind wrote: although they are to change another version in June.
How dp you know that? Or is just a guess?

owen19832006
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by owen19832006 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:08 pm

I phone the HO and was advised by Josh that the old form (April/May version 04/15) would NOT be accepted and that I had to use the new form.
I explained my NCS appointment was Next wednesday and that all my referees had signed the form already; he still confirmed I had to use the new form and get the referees to sign the new one.
He also told me he had received a few calls about the same topic. So my suggestion as annoying as this might be is complete the new one and save yourselves future headaches.

chocolateorange88
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by chocolateorange88 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:44 pm

the form is same just they added something on 1.53 which asks for 10 year employment history. this new form has a total of 32 pages where as other form had only 31. this new form also asks u where u put ur address, when you moved there too. Before the reference was on page 20 now it starts in page 21

ASHA607
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by ASHA607 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:46 am

Oh!God too much harassment for citizenship.
Can anyone confirm me that if you have taken tax return for a particular year then what will happen to citizenship. While on PSW applied for tax return and got £600 something as a tax return. will there be any problem when you apply for citizenship??

ukswus
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by ukswus » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:14 am

ASHA607 wrote:Oh!God too much harassment for citizenship.
Can anyone confirm me that if you have taken tax return for a particular year then what will happen to citizenship. While on PSW applied for tax return and got £600 something as a tax return. will there be any problem when you apply for citizenship??

What do you mean "applied for tax return"? Do you mean tax refund? If you did not manipulate anything illegally, mthen what's the worry?

saeumair
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by saeumair » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:52 am

Hi Guys

I have a quick question: I was away on holiday I had my old form filled etc and plan was to come back and submit this next Friday

But now I find out form is changed, I can refill the form that's not the problem, issue is they are asking for 10 yrs of employment I can put in the info I remember but as a student I did overtime from time to time which exceeds 20 hours minimum limit

Would there be a problem with this ?

I am a little worried any help would be grateful

Thanks

saeumair
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by saeumair » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:26 pm

Called HMRC they said they have data for only 6 years and no more

there is no way to get more data its not on there system

when i checked online you can have data from retreival department and write to them

I am confused what should I do ?

cs95tdg
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by cs95tdg » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:45 pm

saeumair wrote:Called HMRC they said they have data for only 6 years and no more

there is no way to get more data its not on there system

when i checked online you can have data from retreival department and write to them

I am confused what should I do ?
If you read through the posts in this topic you will find varying views on this. They are all personal opinions, therefore you would have to see what makes sense to you and decide how to proceed. My view on your circumstances is that, even if you did get your HMRC history going back 10 years, there is nothing you can now do with that information. I.e. you cannot really undo the fact that you may have worked over the allowed number of hours in the past. Unless you are now considering delaying your application based on what's recorded?

Therefore my suggestion would be to compete the form, listing the information requested (I presume you already have your employment history with you, if not then a HMRC employment history request may help). Unless you abused the work restrictions (hours) on a major scale, (e.g. Working full time instead of studying, working excessively over the time you were on a student visa - only you will know how much of a problem you see this to be based on your work history over that period) I personally do not see this alone being a reason for huge concern. Note that this is just a personal viewpoint, as no one on this forum can give you a definitive answer, on how the HO check records.

saeumair
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by saeumair » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:37 pm

thanks for your reply

see the thing is I didnt abuse the system by working full time and not taking classes

I took my university course and did my degree and during that I also did overtime in a call centre when available

I did my 3 semesters and then I deffered my dissertation and worked during that time whilst I was not doing anything

that is allowed isnt it ??

saeumair
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by saeumair » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:33 pm

See the thing here is I have done overtime regardless

so whats my best bet here, what do people say ? but that was back in 2005 - 2007 and I called HMRC they have records till 2009 and if you need records you will need to go back to HMRC Retreival service like archive data

so they will find out about tax paid and money earned but not hours but they can work it out

what do you suggest I do ?

Thanks

ASHA607
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by ASHA607 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:54 pm

ASHA607 wrote:
Oh!God too much harassment for citizenship.
Can anyone confirm me that if you have taken tax return for a particular year then what will happen to citizenship. While on PSW applied for tax return and got £600 something as a tax return. will there be any problem when you apply for citizenship??




What do you mean "applied for tax return"? Do you mean tax refund? If you did not manipulate anything illegally, mthen what's the worry?

Hi UKSUS, many thanks for reply. yes i meant tax refund. After got the p60 I phoned to hmrc for tax refund and they refunded it. Nothing illegally done. it was on 2010 while i was on PSW. will there be any problem ?

saeumair
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by saeumair » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:40 pm

Hi guys
What do u say about my case
I did do overtime when in university
I was working as per time but did over time in 2006-2007 period
So what should i do ?
Please reply guys I have appointment on fridaybthe 19th

March_LR14
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by March_LR14 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:55 pm

saeumair wrote:Hi guys
What do u say about my case
I did do overtime when in university
I was working as per time but did over time in 2006-2007 period
So what should i do ?
Please reply guys I have appointment on fridaybthe 19th
Hi saeumair,

No one can advise you here as no one can say with certainty how HO do their checks.

It's up-to you to include that part of your employment history . If HO carry's out their checks and get suspicious about your earnings in that period they may contact you to provide the evidence that you were doing allowed number of hours.

Problem which i see is that you can't challenge their decision if they refuse your application as Citizenship is a discretion and not a right.

If you have strong enough evidence to prove that their decision of refusing you is wrong than you can ask for reconsideration only.

Thanks

Universal soldier
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by Universal soldier » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:17 pm

Predictably, for ukba the most important target should be to recover the outstanding/evaded taxes on business activities instead checking the number of hours a student work. The tier 4 before 2009 was called student visa and before 2009 the students were actually allowed full time especially during holidays, change of college, waiting semester intake etc. P roblems can be for failed asylum seekers, visitors, tourists, overstayers but we all know that they all worked cash in hand jobs which have no record :lol: :lol:

saeumair
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Re: NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Post by saeumair » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:39 pm

Thanks for reply guys

So best here is to wait and see what outcome people get when they apply after rule change

Has anyone applied after rule change if yes please post results as soon as

Thanks

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