NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

cool mind wrote:I agree with the above poster that many companies don't keep data of employees taxation or work hour for more longer period like five years. But what I guess and repeating again that if such over working is recent then it can come to surface easily while if over working belong to time let say 5-6 years then it will be almost impossible. I think tax department don't share information much with ukba and therefore, ukba need pacific employment dates to get taxes be checked in such precise and limited channel by knowing the jobs of 10 years

I called my employer which i worked for in 2009-2010 and they had all my details !!

HarryC wrote:

cool mind wrote:I agree with the above poster that many companies don't keep data of employees taxation or work hour for more longer period like five years. But what I guess and repeating again that if such over working is recent then it can come to surface easily while if over working belong to time let say 5-6 years then it will be almost impossible. I think tax department don't share information much with ukba and therefore, ukba need pacific employment dates to get taxes be checked in such precise and limited channel by knowing the jobs of 10 years

I called my employer which i worked for in 2009-2010 and they had all my details !!

Have you tried to ask them that in a particular week how much you worked, which days? Have you asked that can they exchange such information to third party about you?

An employer is not bound to ukba to share information due to data protection act unless employee itself present them for example payslip or they find that from that person. Whereas since the section 40 of ukba act 2007 came its slightly an alternative to data protection act where certain limited information the tax department can share.

I called my previous company where I worked from 2004 to 2007 and they said we got your start and end date and your job title, nothing more than that. But as for as HMRC concern they got total amount of pay including NI and Tax on yearly basis.

Hi All,
I called UKBA regarding question 1.53 and they have advised that put as much information as you can and write coverletter why cant you provide further infomartion of 10 years. Additionally advisor said they dont expect us to remember whole 10 years of employment history. He also admit that its difficult to get the information from HMRC as they only hold the record for the last 5 years on the system.

Goodl luck to everyone including me for the application.

My 10 years story = 6 years ( ILR + Tier2) + 2 Years PSW +2 years student visa

HarryC wrote:

cool mind wrote:I agree with the above poster that many companies don't keep data of employees taxation or work hour for more longer period like five years. But what I guess and repeating again that if such over working is recent then it can come to surface easily while if over working belong to time let say 5-6 years then it will be almost impossible. I think tax department don't share information much with ukba and therefore, ukba need pacific employment dates to get taxes be checked in such precise and limited channel by knowing the jobs of 10 years

I called my employer which i worked for in 2009-2010 and they had all my details !!

Not surprised as this information is for tax year 2010 and its 5 years old. Lets see anyone who can bring info 8-10 years old

Opps! Apologies missed SShah comment. Once again " Provide information to the best of my knowledge".

What information a person provide if he not worked for 2 years out of 10 years??

cool mind wrote:What information a person provide if he not worked for 2 years out of 10 years??

Agree, Too much information is more trouble.But I would still write a cover letter to say that I have provided the information to the best of my ability and knowledge.

muzakhaa wrote:But I would still write a cover letter to say that I have provided the information to the best of my ability and knowledge.

That is already included in the declaration

cool mind wrote:What information a person provide if he not worked for 2 years out of 10 years??

You only provide information for the years you have worked. Note also that its not a requirement that you need to have been employed for naturalisation, thereby there will be applicants who leave this section blank. Additionally not everyone, including myself would have lived in the UK over the last 10 years. Fill in the required information that apply to you.

Hi All,

I think this info requirement is more to do with good character rather than for checking income tax...I guess we will be applying for naturalistion not for visa so it would be more like to check where people were working in past were legit companies..as far as tax returns goes it would be difficult for them to get it directly from hmrc as it against data protection...also if they want to check ur tax return or any other information they can always refer back to what we have declare in past about work history and other information they can always check against name and NI number which has been provided to them in past visa applications.So i think we all should stop panicing and should relax

ilruk84 wrote:Hi All,
as far as tax returns goes it would be difficult for them to get it directly from hmrc as it against data protection

Not so, from the guidance:

Among the duties and obligations which you are expected to fulfil is payment of income tax and National Insurance contributions. We may ask H.M. Revenue & Customs for confirmation that your tax and National Insurance affairs are in order. When you sign the application form you will be giving your consent for us to approach them.

To me thats sound like more where people are in the list of tax fraud or blacklisted...again i doubt that HO will be asking for employement histroy for who has paid how much tax i think its more to do with their character which i can say their statement quoted make sense.

Hello guys, I am sure that you will like following link infirmation which relates to data protection act which prevent the employer to not keep the payroll and working time data longer than necessary usually 2-3 years. See below:
https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/conten ... ff-records

cool mind wrote:following link infirmation which relates to data protection act which prevent the employer to not keep the payroll and working time data longer than necessary usually 2-3 years.

You think employer is the only one who keeps payroll data? HMRC can pull your entire earnings history down to the last penny
Also, the data protection baloney is unknown to HO, they can access any info they want anytime

cool mind wrote:Hello guys, I am sure that you will like following link infirmation which relates to data protection act which prevent the employer to not keep the payroll and working time data longer than necessary usually 2-3 years. See below:
https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/conten ... ff-records

isnt this "northern ireland" rule?

And i dont think data protection will work for UKBA. they are government officials and we are giving them consent in the form.
Also, my payroll were able to give me the leaving dates and joining dates when i asked.
They didnt even do my data protection. I just gave them my name and thats it, they gave me the details. !!!

bottom line is, if UKBA wants to call employer where you worked 5 years ago, they will. until and unless the employer no longer exist, thats different story. But they can do what they like if they find anything suspicious.

Another point is, i dont think they will call employer because all these checks would had been done, before the person got ILR !!

HarryC wrote:But they can do what they like if they find anything suspicious.

Another point is, i dont think they will call employer because all these checks would had been done, before the person got ILR !!

Agree with your first point, in that I believe they will only investigate if they see something that doesn't add up as true. On the second point however I'd have to disagree. I believe the HO will conduct the necessary checks (note that here I do not mean that they will call every single employer you have listed) irrespective of the fact that they may have done the same for your ILR. The reason being the requirements for naturalisation would be different to those for ILR, in addition to that immigration rules keep evolving, so what may have been valid when your ILR was granted may no longer be so for naturalisation as a result of subsequent changes. E.g. The Good character requirement changes that came into effect in December 2014.

One other point to be noted is that the HO have made mistakes in the past when granting visa extensions, ILR, if you read the experiences posted in the T1G/ILR forum you can see recent refusals due to deception which were not caught during the initial application stage, but discovered later. With the current checks for naturalisation being what they are, my sense is that they will check an applicants history (Immigration, Criminal record, HMRC, Other Government agencies etc...) going back 10 years, irrespective of any checks done before to ensure they don't miss anything a second or third time around.

cs95tdg wrote:

HarryC wrote:But they can do what they like if they find anything suspicious.

Another point is, i dont think they will call employer because all these checks would had been done, before the person got ILR !!

Agree with your first point, in that I believe they will only investigate if they see something that doesn't add up as true. On the second point however I'd have to disagree. I believe the HO will conduct the necessary checks (note that here I do not mean that they will call every single employer you have listed) irrespective of the fact that they may have done the same for your ILR. The reason being the requirements for naturalisation would be different to those for ILR, in addition to that immigration rules keep evolving, so what may have been valid when your ILR was granted may no longer be so for naturalisation as a result of subsequent changes. E.g. The Good character requirement changes that came into effect in December 2014.

I spoke to UKBA and thats what they said. I agree, just because someone has ILR doesnt automatically make them qualify for British Citizen. Common sense says that they will check the police record, HMRC etc that tax has been paid using the NINO number applicant gives in the form. If they want to check if the applicant has broken any immigration rules, they will only check from the year the applicant got ILR, because before ILR, the checks would had been made and after ILR, anyways, the applicant is lifted from all the immigration restrictions so seems daft that they will check if the person has broken any immigration rules IF the applicant satisified it before the ILR

Manka10 wrote:

cool mind wrote:following link infirmation which relates to data protection act which prevent the employer to not keep the payroll and working time data longer than necessary usually 2-3 years.

You think employer is the only one who keeps payroll data? HMRC can pull your entire earnings history down to the last penny
Also, the data protection baloney is unknown to HO, they can access any info they want anytime

Ok logically thats true however the person who is filling the form let say remembers his employement 7 years back for the remaining 3 years he is concern and wants to fill that in the form. So the option is to call HMRC, when he calls them they say sorry we have information upto 5 years only. I think this statement/evidence is enough for him to proof that he had done his best and provide the information to the best of his knowledge. Home Office will investigate easily for anything upto 5 years even if they have access available to the HMRC system. But if they decided to investigate/check anything beyond 5 years ( even though its not mentioned )then the process sits with record retrival department if HMRC and is very sweet see below also the the option that suits to investigate employement history on this form is Other.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... oforma.pdf.

I hope this answers your concerns.

Mostly such rules born due to tier 1 applicants who for making their earning buggers for points undertake bogus work/companies. A lot tier 1 applicants pay taxes in little instalments while extending and the same the ukba want to check that whether these remaining taxes have been paid. Hrmc keep data in figure only and employer have to delete the payroll data perhaps after 3 years.

muzakhaa wrote:

Manka10 wrote:

cool mind wrote:following link infirmation which relates to data protection act which prevent the employer to not keep the payroll and working time data longer than necessary usually 2-3 years.

You think employer is the only one who keeps payroll data? HMRC can pull your entire earnings history down to the last penny
Also, the data protection baloney is unknown to HO, they can access any info they want anytime

Ok logically thats true however the person who is filling the form let say remembers his employement 7 years back for the remaining 3 years he is concern and wants to fill that in the form. So the option is to call HMRC, when he calls them they say sorry we have information upto 5 years only. I think this statement/evidence is enough for him to proof that he had done his best and provide the information to the best of his knowledge. Home Office will investigate easily for anything upto 5 years even if they have access available to the HMRC system. But if they decided to investigate/check anything beyond 5 years ( even though its not mentioned )then the process sits with record retrival department if HMRC and is very sweet see below also the the option that suits to investigate employement history on this form is Other.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... oforma.pdf.

I hope this answers your concerns.

The thing is, if you know the dates, put it. if you dont put the dates, ukba cant reject the application because the applicant didnt give them the dates. If they need to, they can cross check from sources (if they want to and have time or feel the need). If they do ring HMRC, google the employer and find a number and ring, that is something we cannot worry about if our records is clear. its their headache at the end of the day. all we can do is be honest and tell if we have the info. simple as that

cool mind wrote:Mostly such rules born due to tier 1 applicants who for making their earning buggers for points undertake bogus work/companies. A lot tier 1 applicants pay taxes in little instalments while extending and the same the ukba want to check that whether these remaining taxes have been paid. Hrmc keep data in figure only and employer have to delete the payroll data perhaps after 3 years.

What about the applicants who got ILR based on their 10 Years student Visa rule. or lets pick up an example of people who have their last 5 years of employement including a mix of Tier 1, 2 categories + student visa?

In simple words forget the whole previous chat. The application form with or without this new section does not matter because your nino is enough and even if you say that you lost your nino then your date of birth & surname is sufficient for same purpose.

cool mind wrote:In simple words forget the whole previous chat. The application form with or without this new section does not matter because your nino is enough and even if you say that you lost your nino then your date of birth & surname is sufficient for same purpose.

Its hard to tell what and how they check. like i said, with the number of applications they receive, will they have time to pick up the phone and start ringing employers if they want to check? they will only check if the police records are clear, no taxes due etc, no bankruptcy and main thing that the person came to UK legally and not through back route .also if someone had 4-5 jobs before ILR, will they check each and everyone considering that was done before ILR. it will seem like a waste of time considering majority of them would be clear?? i very much doubt it they will call employer. local police, local authorities is all they will care about in my opinion. some employers dont keep histories and some do but how much checks they will carry out, who knows

HarryC wrote:

cool mind wrote:In simple words forget the whole previous chat. The application form with or without this new section does not matter because your nino is enough and even if you say that you lost your nino then your date of birth & surname is sufficient for same purpose.

Its hard to tell what and how they check. like i said, with the number of applications they receive, will they have time to pick up the phone and start ringing employers if they want to check? they will only check if the police records are clear, no taxes due etc, no bankruptcy and main thing that the person came to UK legally and not through back route .also if someone had 4-5 jobs before ILR, will they check each and everyone considering that was done before ILR. it will seem like a waste of time considering majority of them would be clear?? i very much doubt it they will call employer. local police, local authorities is all they will care about in my opinion. some employers dont keep histories and some do but how much checks they will carry out, who knows

Let me tell you one thing that if you say time then yes they have plenty of times because they engage many agencies to assist them like capita etc. If you do google search then you will find numerous agencies who do credit check, crime check (CRB), risk assessment etc on behalf of its client. And repeating again an employer is not bound to assist third party like ukba to exchange your information due to data protection act unless the employee itself not present them something or they themselves find something from that employee (applicant). Its all about to check that whether those outstanding taxes which enabled tier 1 applicants to get point for extensions are paid. Try to focus on point that employment history is from date of entry not strictly from 10 years because many living under 10 years.