NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

Hi All,

I think this info requirement is more to do with good character rather than for checking income tax...I guess we will be applying for naturalistion not for visa so it would be more like to check where people were working in past were legit companies..as far as tax returns goes it would be difficult for them to get it directly from hmrc as it against data protection...also if they want to check ur tax return or any other information they can always refer back to what we have declare in past about work history and other information they can always check against name and NI number which has been provided to them in past visa applications.So i think we all should stop panicing and should relax

ilruk84 wrote:Hi All,
as far as tax returns goes it would be difficult for them to get it directly from hmrc as it against data protection

Not so, from the guidance:

Among the duties and obligations which you are expected to fulfil is payment of income tax and National Insurance contributions. We may ask H.M. Revenue & Customs for confirmation that your tax and National Insurance affairs are in order. When you sign the application form you will be giving your consent for us to approach them.

To me thats sound like more where people are in the list of tax fraud or blacklisted...again i doubt that HO will be asking for employement histroy for who has paid how much tax i think its more to do with their character which i can say their statement quoted make sense.

Hello guys, I am sure that you will like following link infirmation which relates to data protection act which prevent the employer to not keep the payroll and working time data longer than necessary usually 2-3 years. See below:
https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/conten ... ff-records

cool mind wrote:following link infirmation which relates to data protection act which prevent the employer to not keep the payroll and working time data longer than necessary usually 2-3 years.

You think employer is the only one who keeps payroll data? HMRC can pull your entire earnings history down to the last penny
Also, the data protection baloney is unknown to HO, they can access any info they want anytime

cool mind wrote:Hello guys, I am sure that you will like following link infirmation which relates to data protection act which prevent the employer to not keep the payroll and working time data longer than necessary usually 2-3 years. See below:
https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/conten ... ff-records

isnt this "northern ireland" rule?

And i dont think data protection will work for UKBA. they are government officials and we are giving them consent in the form.
Also, my payroll were able to give me the leaving dates and joining dates when i asked.
They didnt even do my data protection. I just gave them my name and thats it, they gave me the details. !!!

bottom line is, if UKBA wants to call employer where you worked 5 years ago, they will. until and unless the employer no longer exist, thats different story. But they can do what they like if they find anything suspicious.

Another point is, i dont think they will call employer because all these checks would had been done, before the person got ILR !!

HarryC wrote:But they can do what they like if they find anything suspicious.

Another point is, i dont think they will call employer because all these checks would had been done, before the person got ILR !!

Agree with your first point, in that I believe they will only investigate if they see something that doesn't add up as true. On the second point however I'd have to disagree. I believe the HO will conduct the necessary checks (note that here I do not mean that they will call every single employer you have listed) irrespective of the fact that they may have done the same for your ILR. The reason being the requirements for naturalisation would be different to those for ILR, in addition to that immigration rules keep evolving, so what may have been valid when your ILR was granted may no longer be so for naturalisation as a result of subsequent changes. E.g. The Good character requirement changes that came into effect in December 2014.

One other point to be noted is that the HO have made mistakes in the past when granting visa extensions, ILR, if you read the experiences posted in the T1G/ILR forum you can see recent refusals due to deception which were not caught during the initial application stage, but discovered later. With the current checks for naturalisation being what they are, my sense is that they will check an applicants history (Immigration, Criminal record, HMRC, Other Government agencies etc...) going back 10 years, irrespective of any checks done before to ensure they don't miss anything a second or third time around.

cs95tdg wrote:

HarryC wrote:But they can do what they like if they find anything suspicious.

Another point is, i dont think they will call employer because all these checks would had been done, before the person got ILR !!

Agree with your first point, in that I believe they will only investigate if they see something that doesn't add up as true. On the second point however I'd have to disagree. I believe the HO will conduct the necessary checks (note that here I do not mean that they will call every single employer you have listed) irrespective of the fact that they may have done the same for your ILR. The reason being the requirements for naturalisation would be different to those for ILR, in addition to that immigration rules keep evolving, so what may have been valid when your ILR was granted may no longer be so for naturalisation as a result of subsequent changes. E.g. The Good character requirement changes that came into effect in December 2014.

I spoke to UKBA and thats what they said. I agree, just because someone has ILR doesnt automatically make them qualify for British Citizen. Common sense says that they will check the police record, HMRC etc that tax has been paid using the NINO number applicant gives in the form. If they want to check if the applicant has broken any immigration rules, they will only check from the year the applicant got ILR, because before ILR, the checks would had been made and after ILR, anyways, the applicant is lifted from all the immigration restrictions so seems daft that they will check if the person has broken any immigration rules IF the applicant satisified it before the ILR

Manka10 wrote:

cool mind wrote:following link infirmation which relates to data protection act which prevent the employer to not keep the payroll and working time data longer than necessary usually 2-3 years.

You think employer is the only one who keeps payroll data? HMRC can pull your entire earnings history down to the last penny
Also, the data protection baloney is unknown to HO, they can access any info they want anytime

Ok logically thats true however the person who is filling the form let say remembers his employement 7 years back for the remaining 3 years he is concern and wants to fill that in the form. So the option is to call HMRC, when he calls them they say sorry we have information upto 5 years only. I think this statement/evidence is enough for him to proof that he had done his best and provide the information to the best of his knowledge. Home Office will investigate easily for anything upto 5 years even if they have access available to the HMRC system. But if they decided to investigate/check anything beyond 5 years ( even though its not mentioned )then the process sits with record retrival department if HMRC and is very sweet see below also the the option that suits to investigate employement history on this form is Other.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... oforma.pdf.

I hope this answers your concerns.

Mostly such rules born due to tier 1 applicants who for making their earning buggers for points undertake bogus work/companies. A lot tier 1 applicants pay taxes in little instalments while extending and the same the ukba want to check that whether these remaining taxes have been paid. Hrmc keep data in figure only and employer have to delete the payroll data perhaps after 3 years.

muzakhaa wrote:

Manka10 wrote:

cool mind wrote:following link infirmation which relates to data protection act which prevent the employer to not keep the payroll and working time data longer than necessary usually 2-3 years.

You think employer is the only one who keeps payroll data? HMRC can pull your entire earnings history down to the last penny
Also, the data protection baloney is unknown to HO, they can access any info they want anytime

Ok logically thats true however the person who is filling the form let say remembers his employement 7 years back for the remaining 3 years he is concern and wants to fill that in the form. So the option is to call HMRC, when he calls them they say sorry we have information upto 5 years only. I think this statement/evidence is enough for him to proof that he had done his best and provide the information to the best of his knowledge. Home Office will investigate easily for anything upto 5 years even if they have access available to the HMRC system. But if they decided to investigate/check anything beyond 5 years ( even though its not mentioned )then the process sits with record retrival department if HMRC and is very sweet see below also the the option that suits to investigate employement history on this form is Other.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... oforma.pdf.

I hope this answers your concerns.

The thing is, if you know the dates, put it. if you dont put the dates, ukba cant reject the application because the applicant didnt give them the dates. If they need to, they can cross check from sources (if they want to and have time or feel the need). If they do ring HMRC, google the employer and find a number and ring, that is something we cannot worry about if our records is clear. its their headache at the end of the day. all we can do is be honest and tell if we have the info. simple as that

cool mind wrote:Mostly such rules born due to tier 1 applicants who for making their earning buggers for points undertake bogus work/companies. A lot tier 1 applicants pay taxes in little instalments while extending and the same the ukba want to check that whether these remaining taxes have been paid. Hrmc keep data in figure only and employer have to delete the payroll data perhaps after 3 years.

What about the applicants who got ILR based on their 10 Years student Visa rule. or lets pick up an example of people who have their last 5 years of employement including a mix of Tier 1, 2 categories + student visa?

In simple words forget the whole previous chat. The application form with or without this new section does not matter because your nino is enough and even if you say that you lost your nino then your date of birth & surname is sufficient for same purpose.

cool mind wrote:In simple words forget the whole previous chat. The application form with or without this new section does not matter because your nino is enough and even if you say that you lost your nino then your date of birth & surname is sufficient for same purpose.

Its hard to tell what and how they check. like i said, with the number of applications they receive, will they have time to pick up the phone and start ringing employers if they want to check? they will only check if the police records are clear, no taxes due etc, no bankruptcy and main thing that the person came to UK legally and not through back route .also if someone had 4-5 jobs before ILR, will they check each and everyone considering that was done before ILR. it will seem like a waste of time considering majority of them would be clear?? i very much doubt it they will call employer. local police, local authorities is all they will care about in my opinion. some employers dont keep histories and some do but how much checks they will carry out, who knows

HarryC wrote:

cool mind wrote:In simple words forget the whole previous chat. The application form with or without this new section does not matter because your nino is enough and even if you say that you lost your nino then your date of birth & surname is sufficient for same purpose.

Its hard to tell what and how they check. like i said, with the number of applications they receive, will they have time to pick up the phone and start ringing employers if they want to check? they will only check if the police records are clear, no taxes due etc, no bankruptcy and main thing that the person came to UK legally and not through back route .also if someone had 4-5 jobs before ILR, will they check each and everyone considering that was done before ILR. it will seem like a waste of time considering majority of them would be clear?? i very much doubt it they will call employer. local police, local authorities is all they will care about in my opinion. some employers dont keep histories and some do but how much checks they will carry out, who knows

Let me tell you one thing that if you say time then yes they have plenty of times because they engage many agencies to assist them like capita etc. If you do google search then you will find numerous agencies who do credit check, crime check (CRB), risk assessment etc on behalf of its client. And repeating again an employer is not bound to assist third party like ukba to exchange your information due to data protection act unless the employee itself not present them something or they themselves find something from that employee (applicant). Its all about to check that whether those outstanding taxes which enabled tier 1 applicants to get point for extensions are paid. Try to focus on point that employment history is from date of entry not strictly from 10 years because many living under 10 years.

Hi ,

Looking at the discussion and here is my point of view

Lets see it from different case point of view and see how this fits:

Case 1 : Student

Once a person will provide 10 years history , some of the years will fall under student visa status and if he has done work with any of the employer , he needs to submit P60 /P45 . HO will see the amount declare during this time and compare to the standard hours allowed. To make it simple they want to known if you have worked , YES / NO if YES is this allowed to you or not ( it's my point of view and subject to full discussion by board members). From my point of view a clear picture should be ( i was student in all these years with no work !!!!! this one is really hard to find but with exception)

Case 2 Employment

Straight one send all P60 on yearly bases with employment history

Case 3 Employment & Self Employment ( No limited company structure)

To my best opinion this one will be difficult and a person has to gather allot of information not just employment history. As a general rule people close there business after Visa so i can see this point as difficult . Again we have exceptions and it's my own view other can comment.

Case 4: Limited company structure Director

To some extent it will be also a straight case but provide all P60's and history . Some people will fall in category in which they have more than 1 company and it's been dissolved . The only thing to make sure that once they dissolved the company it was as per HMRC rules. Again my opinion other can comment

Case 5 : Asylum

As with changing rules , this case is getting hard. I can't say much in that as i am not solicitor but in my best opinion this will be difficult case as you have to provide employment information.

All of these case scenarios don't in any form represent all the situations related to different people but to my best knowledge we mostly comes under these headings. members please comment.

I disagree that the hours can be assessed from figures because for example a person do care taker/house keeping jobs at different sites where pay rate vary from site to site, some sites rate can be £6.50 per hour while others in posh area £12 per hour plus bonus/allowance then? Even some people in old times especially students can do full time during summer holidays, semester off, waiting result, waiting next intake etc. Then?? However, I agree with visitors/asylum seekers that case will be different who totally cannot work.

Hi Guys,
Can anyone give me an idea of receiving a letter to register for Biometric details from the point of us submit your Naturalization application. What is the quickest time for some one recieving this letter. Reason being I am eligible from 20th of June but I am travelling for month in July coming back in August. I was intended to make an application just before I leave for my holidays hoping that I will recieve a letter when I will be back in UK. I just dont want to waste any time before HO change their mind you know what I mean. All these forms changes has raised my concerns to apply as soon as possible

aliq09 wrote:Hi ,

Looking at the discussion and here is my point of view

Lets see it from different case point of view and see how this fits:

Case 1 : Student

Once a person will provide 10 years history , some of the years will fall under student visa status and if he has done work with any of the employer , he needs to submit P60 /P45 . HO will see the amount declare during this time and compare to the standard hours allowed. To make it simple they want to known if you have worked , YES / NO if YES is this allowed to you or not ( it's my point of view and subject to full discussion by board members). From my point of view a clear picture should be ( i was student in all these years with no work !!!!! this one is really hard to find but with exception)

Case 2 Employment

Straight one send all P60 on yearly bases with employment history

Case 3 Employment & Self Employment ( No limited company structure)

To my best opinion this one will be difficult and a person has to gather allot of information not just employment history. As a general rule people close there business after Visa so i can see this point as difficult . Again we have exceptions and it's my own view other can comment.

Case 4: Limited company structure Director

To some extent it will be also a straight case but provide all P60's and history . Some people will fall in category in which they have more than 1 company and it's been dissolved . The only thing to make sure that once they dissolved the company it was as per HMRC rules. Again my opinion other can comment

Case 5 : Asylum

As with changing rules , this case is getting hard. I can't say much in that as i am not solicitor but in my best opinion this will be difficult case as you have to provide employment information.

All of these case scenarios don't in any form represent all the situations related to different people but to my best knowledge we mostly comes under these headings. members please comment.

I am not sure what you mean. No one is asking to submit any tax forms with the application.

I think we all are going in wrong directions who knows why they need this information. It could be just for their records or could be that they need only for history they want to keep before approving naturlisation everyone will their own cirumstaces again its not visa we applying for where we will have to meet the points to get it approve

Ok now can anyone advise me what i should do?
I got dates of my initial employment
I came here in 2009 on a woking holiday maker visa initially
was allowed to work for 1 year out of 2 years visa. I joined a part-time employment on 02.02.2009. there was a misunderstanding that if i choose to work part time (3 days a week) , i can work for 2 years as i can travel on remaining days. I got a call by my employer that time on 09.02.2010 that i am not allowed to work. I myself queried this with UKBA as i was confused by the rules and stated to them that "I dont intend to break the rule", clarified and ceased employment on 10.02.2010. i even got proof of the email i sent to them in 09.02.2010 as i copied my old employer and surprisingly they have kept it
will they reject me on the basis of me continuing my employment for a extra week? It was a misunderstanding of the rules and wasnt intentionally breaking law to work as i contacted them myself to clarify the rules.

got my ILR in 2012

HarryC wrote:Ok now can anyone advise me what i should do?
I got dates of my initial employment
I came here in 2009 on a woking holiday maker visa initially
was allowed to work for 1 year out of 2 years visa. I joined a part-time employment on 02.02.2009. there was a misunderstanding that if i choose to work part time (3 days a week) , i can work for 2 years as i can travel on remaining days. I got a call by my employer that time on 09.02.2010 that i am not allowed to work. I myself queried this with UKBA as i was confused by the rules and stated to them that "I dont intend to break the rule", clarified and ceased employment on 10.02.2010. i even got proof of the email i sent to them in 09.02.2010 as i copied my old employer and surprisingly they have kept it
will they reject me on the basis of me continuing my employment for a extra week? It was a misunderstanding of the rules and wasnt intentionally breaking law to work as i contacted them myself to clarify the rules.

got my ILR in 2012

Reading the latest posts on this thread, it appears to have gone in all sorts of directions. As one of the previous posters has already stated its ultimately anyone's guess (as no one that I'm aware of here knows the in's and out's of how the HO nationality team will use the information we provide on the form) what this extra employment information is for. Coming back to your specific question, again any answer you get will most probably be a guess. My guess is that a period of 3 days of part time work (between February 02nd & February 09th) on its own, is unlikely to result in a refusal. I far as what you should do, I don't believe there is anything to be done other than just answer all the questions on the form truthfully.

Hi All,

I have called hmrc to request my 10 year employment history. The advisor on the line said his system can only go back upto 5 years. Well i have requested him to send me the information whatever holds on hmrc system.

Apart from that i have worked for Marks & Spencer in 2005 but i don't remember my joining and ending date. I have called Marks & Spencer HR department and they told me that they don't keep any employee data longer than 3 years.

I have only done 3 jobs (all part time) and maximum only for 6 months in my whole 10 yrs.

I don't know what should i put in that employment section now?

Guys you all are now farting and confusing each other. I already given official link which suggests that an employer can keep payroll and work time for 3 years and HMRC also confirms to keep data of past 5 years. I am again repeating that if over working in recent years then it can come to surface but hardly. Don't repeat same over and over.
A lot tier 1 applicants were involved in bogus taxation with bogus self employments, companies to get earning points and that new section is to check whether those remaining taxes are paid.

March_LR14 wrote: i have worked for Marks & Spencer in 2005 but i don't remember my joining and ending date. I have called Marks & Spencer HR department and they told me that they don't keep any employee data longer than 3 years.

I have only done 3 jobs (all part time) and maximum only for 6 months in my whole 10 yrs.

I don't know what should i put in that employment section now?

Look through any paperwork you may have such as employment contracts, bank statements, P60's or even payslips. In the event you have none of these or any other source you can think of, and are also not able get your 10 year employment history from HMRC, then state the closest dates from memory. You can always indicate the fact that the dates are not exact (and approximate from memory) under the additional information section, if you wish to.