New citizenship form UKF

Ceelocsta - I think that the suggestion of bfrenchfry has merit.

If you were born in Britain before 1983, you are already a British citizen and need only apply for a passport. If you were born after 1983, that is not the case (absolute jus soli was abolished) but have a look at this:
https://www.gov.uk/register-british-citizen

Particularly, read the sections "Born in the UK after 1983" and "Stateless people" (and specifically the bits about being born in Britain after 1983 - form and guidance S3).

This may be a stupid question, but aren't you a Jamaican citizen through your mother? I apologise if this is a hurtful question: I know all about hurtful citizenship questions from people interrogating me all my life (with peculiar doggedness) about why I wasn't a British citizen when I was clearly a native speaker of British English, my father was unambiguously Scots, and his other children got British passports without having to fight for them. I'm asking because you may be able to get a Jamaican passport and then send that in.

And JJL: how did you obtain the email address of your consulate? The British consulates in the USA (where I live) all provide no email addresses, and furthermore they refuse to see anyone without an appointment, their phone numbers only have recorded messages telling us to visit their website and make an appointment in order to be allowed into the building, and the appointment-making system of their website is of course broken and won't let anyone make an appointment. (Their purpose is, as far as I can discern, to avoid performing any work or, heaven forfend, helping anyone). How exactly did you obtain this email address - did you have to make an account in that visa processing centre website and then go through the whole (fake) visa application process just to get the email address?

Born after 1983 to unmarried British father which makes me not British regards of where I was born so I come under 4g

Antsmall wrote:Ceelocsta - I think that the suggestion of bfrenchfry has merit.

If you were born in Britain before 1983, you are already a British citizen and need only apply for a passport. If you were born after 1983, that is not the case (absolute jus soli was abolished) but have a look at this:
https://www.gov.uk/register-british-citizen

Particularly, read the sections "Born in the UK after 1983" and "Stateless people" (and specifically the bits about being born in Britain after 1983 - form and guidance S3).

This may be a stupid question, but aren't you a Jamaican citizen through your mother? I apologise if this is a hurtful question: I know all about hurtful citizenship questions from people interrogating me all my life (with peculiar doggedness) about why I wasn't a British citizen when I was clearly a native speaker of British English, my father was unambiguously Scots, and his other children got British passports without having to fight for them. I'm asking because you may be able to get a Jamaican passport and then send that in.

And JJL: how did you obtain the email address of your consulate? The British consulates in the USA (where I live) all provide no email addresses, and furthermore they refuse to see anyone without an appointment, their phone numbers only have recorded messages telling us to visit their website and make an appointment in order to be allowed into the building, and the appointment-making system of their website is of course broken and won't let anyone make an appointment. (Their purpose is, as far as I can discern, to avoid performing any work or, heaven forfend, helping anyone). How exactly did you obtain this email address - did you have to make an account in that visa processing centre website and then go through the whole (bad quality) visa application process just to get the email address?

And yes I can get Jamaican citizenship but I will do that if this don't work

[

Yes, you need to send your passport as part of the new laws passed in April.[/quote]

But I'm born in the UK and have no passport never been able to leave the country and not everyone has passports. So how am i supposed send them my passport if I have no nationality? this is the whole point of me getting one. My father is British and my mother is Jamaican. My father has not had a passport for a while but I have his full birth cert. Is this not enough?[/quote]

If you were born in the UK and have never left you are either automatically a citizen or would be naturalizing. UKF and UKM forms are for those of us born outside of the UK to British fathers or mothers.
Perhaps this page can help?
https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-citizen[/quote]

Why would I neutralise if I have a British father ?

but you said you was born after 1983 to unmarried britsh father so you're not British ...

You may be in a position to both naturalise and register.

One reason to choose naturalisation might be that it gives you one advantage: the ability to pass British citizenship to your children born abroad. As you may already know, British citizenship is either 'by descent' or 'otherwise than by descent'. If you are British by descent, i.e. only through your parent(s) and not by birth in Britain or naturalisation, then children that you bear abroad are not automatically British. Instead if you naturalise, your children born abroad are automatically British, but for one generation only, because again, they will be British by descent.

As far as I'm aware, all the UKF options (i.e. all the subsections of section 65 of the Immigration Act 2014) convey only citizenship by descent, even if the person was born in Britain. It's weird but it's how it is.

Registration seems to be a simpler procedure than naturalisation and also doesn't require you to fiddle about with "Life in the UK" tests and all that jazz. There are pros and cons to both options.

Antsmall wrote:You may be in a position to both naturalise and register.

One reason to choose naturalisation might be that it gives you one advantage: the ability to pass British citizenship to your children born abroad. As you may already know, British citizenship is either 'by descent' or 'otherwise than by descent'. If you are British by descent, i.e. only through your parent(s) and not by birth in Britain or naturalisation, then children that you bear abroad are not automatically British. Instead if you naturalise, your children born abroad are automatically British, but for one generation only, because again, they will be British by descent.

As far as I'm aware, all the UKF options (i.e. all the subsections of section 65 of the Immigration Act 2014) convey only citizenship by descent, even if the person was born in Britain. It's weird but it's how it is.

Registration seems to be a simpler procedure than naturalisation and also doesn't require you to fiddle about with "Life in the UK" tests and all that jazz. There are pros and cons to both options.

Yeah ukf is a cheaper option for me as I have no children, its just that I don't have a passport just a full UK brith cert.

You will be entitled to registration if:  you were born before 1 July 2006, and  your mother was not married to your natural father  you have never been a British citizen  you would have become a British citizen automatically if your parents had been married (see below), and  the Secretary of State is satisfied that you are of good character. The law has been written in this way to ensure that those who would have become British citizens automatically on 1 January 1983, if their parents had been married, now have an opportunity to become British citizens by registration. There is no registration option for people who would have become British Overseas citizens or British Dependent Territories citizens on 1 January 1983 had their parents been married and who, as a result, might now have had entitlements to British citizenship under other provisions. You can meet the fourth requirement above if: 1. You were born on or after 1 January 1983 and would have become a British citizen automatically had your parents been married at the time of your birth (section 4G of the British Nationality Act 1981), or 2. You were born before 1 January 1983 and were a citizen of the UK and Colonies on 31 December 1982 and would have become a British citizen automatically had your parents been married at the time of your birth (section 4H of the British Nationality Act 1981). 3. You were born before 1 January 1983 and would have become a British citizen on 1 January 1983 had your parents been married because:  You were a British subject before 1 January 1949, and would have automatically become a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies on that date had your parents been married at the time of your birth, or  You became a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies on or after 1 January 1949 and lost that status on the independence of a Commonwealth country, but would not have done had your parents been married.

How about getting a Jamaican passport and sending that in as your passport? The British citizenship authorities are very refractory and it may actually be easier to obtain and then send in a Jamaican passport than to try to reason with them. I'm not saying that it's easy to get a Jamaican passport (I've never done it and have no idea) but communicating with the Home Office is so annoying that acquiring a Jamaican passport might be less time-consuming and irritating than that. Yes, that is how slow and uncommunicative they are.

My other homeland is Italy, which is known for its convoluted bureaucracy; yet obtaining an Italian passport is a walk in the park (while holding a piece of cake - and eating it too) compared to getting a British one, even after having secured British citizenship. Italian bureaucracy is positively Kafkaesque but it lacks the utter impenetrability of what has now become the over-automatised, badly planned British bureaucracy. The Jamaican officials might be far more reasonable - and contactable. I speculate, but it might be worth a try. Who knows, the Jamaican consulate might actually allow you into the building! To meet a human! (The Italian consulate does, unlike the British one).

Is your father in a position to obtain a British passport which you can then send as well? For some reason the UKF procedure requires the father's passport, and the robot people might create problems otherwise.

Antsmall wrote:How about getting a Jamaican passport and sending that in as your passport? The British citizenship authorities are very refractory and it may actually be easier to obtain and then send in a Jamaican passport than to try to reason with them. I'm not saying that it's easy to get a Jamaican passport (I've never done it and have no idea) but communicating with the Home Office is so annoying that acquiring a Jamaican passport might be less time-consuming and irritating than that. Yes, that is how slow and uncommunicative they are.

My other homeland is Italy, which is known for its convoluted bureaucracy; yet obtaining an Italian passport is a walk in the park (while holding a piece of cake - and eating it too) compared to getting a British one, even after having secured British citizenship. Italian bureaucracy is positively Kafkaesque but it lacks the utter impenetrability of what has now become the over-automatised, badly planned British bureaucracy. The Jamaican officials might be far more reasonable - and contactable. I speculate, but it might be worth a try. Who knows, the Jamaican consulate might actually allow you into the building! To meet a human! (The Italian consulate does, unlike the British one).

Is your father in a position to obtain a British passport which you can then send as well? For some reason the UKF procedure requires the father's passport, and the robot people might create problems otherwise.

' Robot people' haha

Well, the only positive aspect of the robot people is that by their incessant roboticism they provide fodder for humour. Make us laugh, robot people. Now dance, dance, do your robotic dance for us!!

Antsmall wrote:How about getting a Jamaican passport and sending that in as your passport? The British citizenship authorities are very refractory and it may actually be easier to obtain and then send in a Jamaican passport than to try to reason with them. I'm not saying that it's easy to get a Jamaican passport (I've never done it and have no idea) but communicating with the Home Office is so annoying that acquiring a Jamaican passport might be less time-consuming and irritating than that. Yes, that is how slow and uncommunicative they are.

My other homeland is Italy, which is known for its convoluted bureaucracy; yet obtaining an Italian passport is a walk in the park (while holding a piece of cake - and eating it too) compared to getting a British one, even after having secured British citizenship. Italian bureaucracy is positively Kafkaesque but it lacks the utter impenetrability of what has now become the over-automatised, badly planned British bureaucracy. The Jamaican officials might be far more reasonable - and contactable. I speculate, but it might be worth a try. Who knows, the Jamaican consulate might actually allow you into the building! To meet a human! (The Italian consulate does, unlike the British one).

Is your father in a position to obtain a British passport which you can then send as well? For some reason the UKF procedure requires the father's passport, and the robot people might create problems otherwise.

Yeah I was thinking that but I was not sure because I thought it would interfere with the citizenship. My dads looking for his expired passport and if he can't find it he's gonna get a new one

It won't interfere with your citizenship. Already holding another citizenship doesn't prevent acquisition of British citizenship. Furthermore, the fact that they ask for your existing passport implies that they expect you to have a non-British citizenship already.

Yes, it is a good idea for your father to locate and send you his expired passport or, if that proves impossible, obtain a new (British) passport and send it to you. These are the rules of the robot people. They create problems anyway, even when applicants give them nothing weird at all, so it's probably best if we present them with as few departures from their expected model as possible. They want to tick boxes.

Antsmall wrote:It won't interfere with your citizenship. Already holding another citizenship doesn't prevent acquisition of British citizenship. Furthermore, the fact that they ask for your existing passport implies that they expect you to have a non-British citizenship already.

Yes, it is a good idea for your father to locate and send you his expired passport or, if that proves impossible, obtain a new (British) passport and send it to you. These are the rules of the robot people. They create problems anyway, even when applicants give them nothing weird at all, so it's probably best if we present them with as few departures from their expected model as possible. They want to tick boxes.

I sent the form off without the passports so let's see what happens, I also emailed them about the situation regarding this

Hmm. Well, in that case I guess it makes sense for you to wait until they reply to your email or demand additional documents, preferably providing some sort of reference number so they can match up your new documents with your existing application and other materials. Otherwise they might get confused and you could end up waiting even longer! But in the meantime I'd suggest getting started on your Jamaican passport and your father's passport while you wait for our Vogon friends to make the next move.

Antsmall wrote:Hmm. Well, in that case I guess it makes sense for you to wait until they reply to your email or demand additional documents, preferably providing some sort of reference number so they can match up your new documents with your existing application and other materials. Otherwise they might get confused and you could end up waiting even longer! But in the meantime I'd suggest getting started on your Jamaican passport and your father's passport while you wait for our Vogon friends to make the next move.

I'll keep all of yous updated, thanks for the help

Hello:
Yesterday I completed my biometric appointment in Vancouver. Couple of things....

Vancouver is a beautiful city. So, if you have to spend the cash to go do this, and are in the western part of the USA, then it would be hard to find a better city to have to go to. From the airport hotel, it is simple to take the train downtown to Waterfront Station (25 mins) and walk to the appointment (6-7 mins). No cab needed. In addition, if you arrive late to the airport, the Fairmount Airport Hotel is supper convenient and is physically connected to the airport.

As for the appointment... They were fast, courteous and professional. It took maybe 35 minutes from arriving to leaving.

Of note: The employee at the appointment mentioned they were very aware of the situation in the USA regarding the inability to conduct the biometric appointments. From what I understood from him (and I am paraphrasing), VsfGlobal would be the one doing this service in the USA in 2016 (and he didn't know when in 2016). He said, that they were waiting for Homeland Security approval. I thought that was interesting. Also, he confirmed for me that many of the USA applicants were confused by the web site selection of "Country of Residence." He said if you are a USA resident, to pick "Canada" if you want to schedule an appointment in Canada. Whewww.

For anyone going, be extra sure you bring everything in terms of documents: VsfGlobal payment receipt, appointment letter from VsfGlobal, appointment letter from the UK, passport and anything else you suspect relevant (error on side of caution).

Hope that is useful information.

Please could someone assist me.
I was born in South Africa in 1988 to a British father
My parents were not married at the time of my birth
But went on to marry when I was 10months old
Am I correct in saying I qualify under 4G?? And if so
Do I acquire citizenship by decent OR otherwise by decent??
Needing some serious help as I would like to know to see if I can pass on citizenship to my son (1years old)

Thanking you in advance

You do not have to go through the UKF route because your parents married before your eighteenth birthday. Therefore, apply directly for a passport, using your birth certificate and your parents' marriage certificate (and whatever other documents they want). Use 'long forms' of all documents wherever possible; in fact I believe that they are very insistent on 'long forms' of marriage certificates.
https://www.gov.uk/apply-renew-passport

However, since you were not born in Britain, your child is not automatically British because you are 'British by descent' (just like the UKF people, the only difference being that we have to register first). You may be able to register your child as British IF you do it before the child's 18th birthday. The relevant law is here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/section/3
As you can see, there are some conditions, but you may be able to wangle it.

I suggest contacting the PRCBC for more specific information about how to register your child (I am not a lawyer and I haven't really looked into this particular issue very much). Here is their website:
http://ealinglawcentre.org.uk.gridhosted.co.uk/prcbc/
They are good and well-informed people who help with registration of children as British citizens in their free time (for free), and I can't recommend them enough. They played an important role in the victory of section 65 (UKF citizenship route) after many years of struggle.

Thank you so much for you assistance.

I wonder if you could point me in the right direction with regards to moving to the U.K. With my husband and child and what route we should take as we don't meet the criteria financially through spousal.

Thanking you in advanced.

Apply for a British passport.

Move with family and work in another EEA country first.

Hi house
Update on my application.
Biometric letter arrived yesterday stressing that I v gotten one earlier which I didn't respond to.I never got it,this is the first response of any kind am getting since my application on 3rd August. The letter indicated that I have 30working days to do my biometric or application will b rejected of which I have few days left when d letter arrived. I wonder why it can't be email to you.
Anyway,I put a mail through to the biometric center and explain how urgent it is for me to meet deadline and I already have an appointment for Monday,30th.
Timeline:
Application sent: 3rd August
Fee deduction: 17th August
Biometric letter: dated Oct 29th
Country: Nigeria

Antsmall wrote:You do not have to go through the UKF route because your parents married before your eighteenth birthday. Therefore, apply directly for a passport, using your birth certificate and your parents' marriage certificate (and whatever other documents they want). Use 'long forms' of all documents wherever possible; in fact I believe that they are very insistent on 'long forms' of marriage certificates.
https://www.gov.uk/apply-renew-passport

However, since you were not born in Britain, your child is not automatically British because you are 'British by descent' (just like the UKF people, the only difference being that we have to register first). You may be able to register your child as British IF you do it before the child's 18th birthday. The relevant law is here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/section/3
As you can see, there are some conditions, but you may be able to wangle it.

I suggest contacting the PRCBC for more specific information about how to register your child (I am not a lawyer and I haven't really looked into this particular issue very much). Here is their website:
http://ealinglawcentre.org.uk.gridhosted.co.uk/prcbc/
They are good and well-informed people who help with registration of children as British citizens in their free time (for free), and I can't recommend them enough. They played an important role in the victory of section 65 (UKF citizenship route) after many years of struggle.

Hi Antsmall,

The first paragraph above you say about applying straight for a British Passport if parents married before 18th birthday - is this really the case? My girlfriend is in a situation where her father was born in the UK (1963), she is South African (born 1988) and although her parents weren't married at the time of birth, they married soon after (definitely before her 18th birthday). We have pretty much done all the forms for UKF. She will still need to go down the UKF route though won't she?

Thanks

It is my understanding that, as in the previous person's case, this person also does not need the UKF citizenship route. She can simply apply for a passport by following the rules for first-time passport applications (which are a bit more stringent than the ones for passport renewals). She should be sure to send in the long forms of any certificates which allow them (e.g. the parents' marriage certificate) because officials can be very pernickety about long forms as opposed to short forms.

Parents' marriage subsequent to birth, but (arbitrarily) before the 18th birthday, will retroactively activate the automatic citizenship which the person would have had if their parents had married before their birth. (Married civilly, that is. My parents did in fact marry, but it was a church marriage and therefore the British authorities did not consider it valid and I was denied citizenship of my own country through no fault of my own. So I fought for years until we got the law changed and the UKF route came into being).

Antsmall wrote:It is my understanding that, as in the previous person's case, this person also does not need the UKF citizenship route. She can simply apply for a passport by following the rules for first-time passport applications (which are a bit more stringent than the ones for passport renewals). She should be sure to send in the long forms of any certificates which allow them (e.g. the parents' marriage certificate) because officials can be very pernickety about long forms as opposed to short forms.

Parents' marriage subsequent to birth, but (arbitrarily) before the 18th birthday, will retroactively activate the automatic citizenship which the person would have had if their parents had married before their birth. (Married civilly, that is. My parents did in fact marry, but it was a church marriage and therefore the British authorities did not consider it valid and I was denied citizenship of my own country through no fault of my own. So I fought for years until we got the law changed and the UKF route came into being).

Hi Antsmall,

Thanks so much for getting back to me, wish I had found this forum sooner!

What you're saying is very interesting, so were you in a similar situation and were successful in obtaining the passport without UKF?

thanks

Thanks