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Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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noajthan
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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by noajthan » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:37 pm

MariaD wrote:Hi all.

I don't have good news. No luck for my application, and I sent official complaint today.
Please, can we all share information where and to whom we complain. My application at Liverpool office (I guess all of us affected by same office or maybe by same team), I sent complaint to Newport. Not sure if it right address, as Passport Office advice call-centre insisted to send complain to Liverpool. But I don't trust this office anymore. Want somebody else to work with my documents. Where my letter is will end up?

noajthan, how and where did you complained: by phone, email, or writing them?

examinator just ignored me. Didn't call last time it's all. Suppose to call today or tomorrow. Well. Will see. Spoke with 2 staff member from HMPO helpline yesterday: they are both have not heard anything about the policy and cases like mine. One of them said she is working for HMPO for 10 years. So is this policy exist?
Home office is not aware about this and said HMPO ignored their legitimate document (Naturalisation certificate).

Discrimination complaint for me won't work, as adviser said it should be all or many people of my nationality affected. :(

MP have not replied.

What is my next plan:
1. Want to send complain to London to Parliamentary and Diplomatic Enquiries Team. Do you think it's worth?

2. Will try to contact to person from NCS. He advised me to use any surname in naturalisation certificate and now I have problems. I paid money for this by the way. Will ask what he can advise or how he can help me.

3. Maybe will make official complain to Home Office. They must take responsibility for putting the marriage name in Naturalisation Certificate, while original passport on maiden name or at list they should worn me that passport will need change.

4. Keep my MP with up date. I know he's busy but it seems he will be still MP after elections, so he must do his job.

5. As I am British Citizen now, I am also EU citizen and have rights to move, which I can't use now because they denied my passport. Where can I complain about this? My husband thinks MEP best person to complain. Any other suggestions?
MariaD,
so sorry to hear about that.

We are dealing with Durham office who are handling our application;
- still waiting on next response from them so we are not filing any complaint at the moment.

As per the passport guidance booklet there is a 4-stage complaints process; see page 22 of current guide:

At step 1, it says contact C.S.C. (at Newport).
At step 2, contact is to HM PO office in London.
- so not sure why they directed you from Newport to Liverpool.

I have been told by a passport caseworker there is a policy on Dual Identity but it is unpublished and not available on the public website. :!:

There are ofcourse some public policy docs on the HM PO website - including policies about:
names (& name change), official observations in passports (including for maiden names), dual citizenship, etc
- but none of them mention this type of catch-22 situation.

On discrimination the gov.uk website is clear. In general, discrimination is not acceptable & (often) against the law.
For example, discrimination on the basis of marriage or gender:
https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your- ... rimination

This recent & internal identity policy of theirs appears to discriminate because it is catching out only married women who happen to want to use their married name.
In fact, only those who were recently naturalised in their married name (by UK Home Office)
- probably using the same passport & certificate they then submitted to HM PO :!:

The final part of the catch-22 is it seems that HM PO is refusing passports (or at least delaying decisions on passports) to those those who previously used their maiden name;
- for example, in a current, foreign passport
(typically when maiden name was used for their previous UK visa/settlement 'journey').

I think there's definitely a case to be made about discrimination.

So, my suggestions for your questions are:

1. Yes - suggest complain by following the process in the passport guide

2. About NCS.
We used NCS too & sadly this trap wasn't picked up by them at that initial stage either.

The Post Office is clear in their paperwork that the final decision on passports rests with HM PO (& any compensation seems to be limited to the NCS fee).

So a complaint to NCS probably won't resolve this for you. But it could alert them that their training is not adequate to cover this type of scenario.

3. Home Office.
I agree - there's now a mismatch between Home Office & HM PO policies.
The UK policy on names & identities should be joined-up & consistent across all departments of government.
Ideally, it should be compatible with other country's policies on names & dual citizenship & passport changes.

The rules should not be so rigid that people get trapped in a catch-22:
no British passport due to a dual identity (so it becomes impossible to travel & also hard to prove right of abode in UK);
&
(often) unable to change or revoke original passport/nationality either

This is an area MPs and MEPs should be able to dig into & help with.

4. MP. Agree - and involving a MP is step 3 of the official complaints process.
Has to be worth doing, especially if they have a track record on human rights, women's rights &/or equality & (anti-)discrimination

Step 4 is to go to the Ombudsman.

5. MEP - Yes, maybe try MEP too.
Again, especially if they have a track record on human rights, women's rights &/or equality issues.

Other ideas:
A few posts back in this thread I posted a number of advisory and legal organisations.
You could see if 1 or more of them can advise & help you here.

For example, your local CAB
or EASS:
https://www.gov.uk/equality-advisory-support-service

Other organisations are listed here:
http://www.migrantsrights.org.uk/about/advice-services

Use of maiden name:
In a letter to us the HM PO suggested my wife reapplies in her maiden name (even though she was naturalised in her married name).
Annoying as it would be, as involves yet more time, effort & cost, it's still another chance.
If it's a way to move forwards you could try investigating that option with the HM PO for your case.

From the letter we received:
If the authorities are unable to amend your name so that it is the same as on your Naturalization certificate, or if the ... authorities state that you are no longer entitled to hold a <foreign> passport, we will require written confirmation of this from the <foreign> authorities.
&
Alternatively you may choose to have your name on your British passport as <maiden name>. To do this we will require a new application form in the name of <maiden name>, evidence of the change of name to <maiden name>, and documents to confirm you are now using the name <maiden name> for all purposes, such as a current letter from your employer or government department.
Finally, this from UK gov website:
A decision to refuse or withdraw a passport must be necessary and proportionate. The decision to withdraw or refuse a passport and the reason for that decision will be conveyed to the applicant or passport holder. The disclosure of information used to determine such a decision will be subject to the individual circumstances of the case.
The usual grounds for refusal of a British passport seem to relate to criminals & terroists, not respectable married ladies:
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... -passports

Suggest you insist & ensure you have every significant statement & decision from HM PO in writing; even if they tell you something verbally ask for it in writing too.
Then you or your adviser can decide if any decision to refuse or delay a passport is actually necessary & proportionate.

Don't give up - very good luck.
Last edited by noajthan on Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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noajthan
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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by noajthan » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:50 am

"All women have the right to live free from discrimination and violence."
Statement by Baroness Northover, UK Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for International Development, at the 59th Session on the UN Commission on the Status of Women

>> someone who evidently promotes women's rights - to contact for support :?:

See
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... d-violence

From:
Foreign & Commonwealth Office and Baroness Northover
Delivered on:
11 March 2015 (Transcript of the speech, exactly as it was delivered)
Location:
UN General Assembly
First published:
11 March 2015
Part of:
Foreign affairs and UK Mission to the United Nations, New York
Last edited by noajthan on Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

noajthan
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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by noajthan » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:55 am

All-Party Parliamentary Group on Migration
http://www.appgmigration.org.uk

Members of this group - MPs who obviously have an interest in migration matters:
http://www.appgmigration.org.uk/members
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

MariaD
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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by MariaD » Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:10 pm


noajthan
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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by noajthan » Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:43 pm

MariaD wrote:My brain will explode. Look what I find. What do you think about it?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/crac ... -detection

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... e-guidance
Oh. so this confirms what we had figured out by the way we are being treated. There is a new policy on identity.
It seems to have been introduced very quietly.

Not sure how it sits with longstanding English common law (use of any name you like).

It's very frustrating as the passport caseworkers (& Post Office NCS) don't all seem to be aware of it.
It is also dated February, 2015; my wife, for one, applied in March but the published guidance notes (and NCS) still didn't cover this.
Last edited by noajthan on Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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noajthan
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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by noajthan » Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:54 pm

I wonder what this means:

From the 'Change of Name Guidance' PDF file
8. Where a person is a national of more than one country, and one or more of those countries place restrictions on changes to names, they will need to provide additional information to demonstrate they intend to use that identity for all purposes
> which name is it talking about here :?:
original/maiden name :?:
10. Holders of non-British passports and national identity cards must also provide evidence they have amended the details in other passport(s) and any national identity cards they hold, unless there are exceptional circumstances that would seriously adversely affect their life in the UK, such as those set out in paragraphs 18 to 25. The names used in these documents take precedent to names used in other supporting documents, such as marriage certificates and deed polls.
:!:

> but nothing to amend if original name and naturalised name are the same.
> Alternately, could consider cancelling other passports (if possible);
cancelled passports do not have to be submitted with the British application
11. Foreign nationals who apply to become British citizens may be registered or naturalised in their married name. However, if a new citizen wants a British passport in their married name they must change the name on their other passport(s), travel documents and national identity card(s) to reflect their married name before submitting their application. Exceptions to this approach are set out in paragraphs 18 to 28 below.
> This point is not covered in the current passport guide or by NCS :!:
> Alternately, cancel other passports as cancelled passports do not have to be submitted with the British application.
> Paragraph 26 (below) may be an acceptable exception.
> Alternately, even if naturalised in married name, applying for a British passport in a maiden name may be a possible way to avoid this requirement (if it matches the person's foreign documents, also in their maiden name)
26. British citizens who hold warranted titles or are known more commonly by their stage or professional name may use both names. An observation may be included in their passport. An example of this is when members of the House of Lords use both their titled names and their given names.
> worth exploring options for this type of official observation with HM PO;
all depends on the supporting evidence they may ask for
Adoption, Birth and Naturalisation certificates
28. These documents are records of events and changes to these records are not covered by this policy.
> this may mean, if a woman goes back to using her maiden name (and has the British passport issued in maiden name) there is no need to change these documents (even if she was naturalised in her married name) :?:
(anyway some cannot be changed)
Last edited by noajthan on Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:12 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by MariaD » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:13 pm

To me this police doesn't make sense. Rubbish.
1. Is it policy or guidance?
2. Was designed for criminals why affect normal people, who don't have criminal records?
3. This policy applies to applications to changes of names and identities to the following documents: British Passport
But I don't change British Passport. I don't have one yet.
4. Foreign nationals who apply to become British citizens may be registered or naturalised in their married name. However, if a new citizen wants a British passport in their married name they must change the name on their other passport(s), travel documents and national identity card(s) to reflect their married name before submitting their application.
What about people like me, who applied for citizenship before rules been approached. I was told by NCS that I can use any name and no problem will be for me. Why is it applicable to me?
5. Passport Office said applicant can use maiden name while their naturalization certificate on their married name, how you wrote above. Is it their policy about names from 2012 still valued? If yes, what to do with "the passport should be issued in the name shown on the naturalisation certificate unless evidence of a change name after the certificate has been issued is submitted. It clear that maiden name appeared before married name unless we will divorse our husbands.
6. This policy aligns the various approaches to managing name changes across the Home Office. It is not intended to make it more difficult for the majority of people who change their names for obvious reasons, such as marriage.
IT DOES!!!

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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by MariaD » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:15 pm

noajthan wrote:I wonder what this means:

From the 'Change of Name Guidance' PDF file
8. Where a person is a national of more than one country, and one or more of those countries place restrictions on changes to names, they will need to provide additional information to demonstrate they intend to use that identity for all purposes
> which name is it talking about here :?:
original/maiden name :?:

I think they talk about countries which never change women name from maiden to marrige in their passports.

MariaD
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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by MariaD » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:19 pm

Rules says

It aligns how changes of name are handled across the Home Office ensuring there is a consistent approach for British citizens and foreign nationals, so that a person only holds the documents listed in paragraph 6 in the name they use for all purposes

So how can I apply for maiden name if I use my marrige name in UK for all purposes?

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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by MariaD » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:22 pm

Just before election something to think for who to vote.

noajthan
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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by noajthan » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:36 pm

MariaD wrote:To me this police doesn't make sense. Rubbish.
1. Is it policy or guidance?
2. Was designed for criminals why affect normal people, who don't have criminal records?
3. This policy applies to applications to changes of names and identities to the following documents: British Passport
But I don't change British Passport. I don't have one yet.
4. Foreign nationals who apply to become British citizens may be registered or naturalised in their married name. However, if a new citizen wants a British passport in their married name they must change the name on their other passport(s), travel documents and national identity card(s) to reflect their married name before submitting their application.
What about people like me, who applied for citizenship before rules been approached. I was told by NCS that I can use any name and no problem will be for me. Why is it applicable to me?
5. Passport Office said applicant can use maiden name while their naturalization certificate on their married name, how you wrote above. Is it their policy about names from 2012 still valued? If yes, what to do with "the passport should be issued in the name shown on the naturalisation certificate unless evidence of a change name after the certificate has been issued is submitted. It clear that maiden name appeared before married name unless we will divorse our husbands.
6. This policy aligns the various approaches to managing name changes across the Home Office. It is not intended to make it more difficult for the majority of people who change their names for obvious reasons, such as marriage.
IT DOES!!!
I think they intend it to apply to first-time passport applicants as well as for renewals.

Yes agree, very unfortunate for all who applied just before & just after this guide was introduced.
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noajthan
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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by noajthan » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:46 pm

MariaD wrote:Rules says

It aligns how changes of name are handled across the Home Office ensuring there is a consistent approach for British citizens and foreign nationals, so that a person only holds the documents listed in paragraph 6 in the name they use for all purposes

So how can I apply for maiden name if I use my marrige name in UK for all purposes?
Yes, unfortunate if you prefer to use your married name here; (as my wife is also trying to do).

All I know is what HM PO recently wrote to me:
Alternatively you may choose to have your name on your British passport as <maiden name>. To do this we will require a new application form in the name of <maiden name>, evidence of the change of name to <maiden name>, and documents to confirm you are now using the name <maiden name> for all purposes, such as a current letter from your employer or government department.
> it was their suggestion.

It could be a way forward - better than no British passport at all.
Because even if you opt for a Right of Abode sticker in your original passport (to prove your right to live in UK), all foreign travel, even to EU, will remain harder.

(In our case we will try to cancel the foreign passport before we get to this last option).

For those who can't change or cancel foreign passports, why not ask HM PO if it's a solution.
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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by MariaD » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:19 pm

evidence of the change of name to <maiden name>


where are you going to find this evidence?

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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by MariaD » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:26 pm

noajthan wrote:
It could be a way forward - better than no British passport at all.
I am agree
noajthan wrote: Because even if you opt for a Right of Abode sticker in your original passport (to prove your right to live in UK), all foreign travel, even to EU, will remain harder.
I don't think it's possibale as I have naturalisation certificate., I looked what is Right of Abode , will need to ask Home Office for another certificate. So no, they won't do it for naturalised people

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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by noajthan » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:32 pm

MariaD wrote:evidence of the change of name to <maiden name>

where are you going to find this evidence?
This is on gov UK website (if it still applies):
https://www.gov.uk/changing-passport-in ... aiden-name
(the HM PO would have to accept the lack of divorce document).

Otherwise how about a birth certificate or original country's passport showing original/maiden name.
Together with a letter ("to whom it may concern...") declaring you intend to use it - that would be a start.
A letter from an employer or a government department (maybe tax office or DVLA or similar) would then back this up.

If none of the above was accepted by HM PO, here are possibilities:
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/r ... r_name.htm

The way ahead would be to ask HM PO for specific written steps they will accept in this case (as it was the lack of clear guidance over the policy change that created this situation).
- hopefully you would receive a letter similar to ours.

Point out you were naturalised before the policy came in & then the passport policy was changed but the guidance was not brought up to date so you weren't aware of it.
Provide any supporting statement from your previous country about not being able to cancel the original passport.
Remind them you have just fulfilled the good character & criminal record checks for naturalisation too.
Last edited by noajthan on Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:40 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by noajthan » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:35 pm

MariaD wrote:
noajthan wrote:
It could be a way forward - better than no British passport at all.
I am agree
noajthan wrote: Because even if you opt for a Right of Abode sticker in your original passport (to prove your right to live in UK), all foreign travel, even to EU, will remain harder.
I don't think it's possibale as I have naturalisation certificate., I looked what is Right of Abode , will need to ask Home Office for another certificate. So no, they won't do it for naturalised people
My understanding is a RoA can (only) be issued to a British citizen (including a dual citizen) if they do not hold a British passport.
See:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... de_ROA.pdf

There is another thread all about the requirements somewhere on this forum too.
Last edited by noajthan on Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by noajthan » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:32 pm

MariaD wrote:Just before election something to think for who to vote.
Yes indeed.

And MPs, human rights campaigners, women's right campaigners must surely be interested in how this new identity guidance sits with English common law, with English 'fair play', with UK anti-discrimination legislation, with EU concepts of freedom of movement & human rights.

Family-friendly parties should certainly scrutinise this claim:
This policy aligns the various approaches to managing name changes across the Home Office. It is not intended to make it more difficult for the majority of people who change their names for obvious reasons, such as marriage.
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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by MariaD » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:22 pm

noajthan

thank you for explain about right to abode, but I think this is not what I am looking for. I had right to live in Uk permanently as I had ILR, but because of schengen visa process I decided to get Citizenship. Spent 1000 pounds and end up with even less rights that I had before. I need British passport only for holiday issues, that's it. I don't think right to abode will let me to go to schengen area. But if I travel to Russia for example I still have right to return to UK by my Russian Passport if I show naturalisation certificate. I think.
Last edited by MariaD on Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by MariaD » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:33 pm

I will complain to Parliamentary and Diplomatic Enquiries Team (PDET), (Official complaint to Passport Office on its way),
I will send complaint to Home Office Immigration (who issued my certificate), Probably, I will email to that minister who designed this policy, (don't know if it will make any effect),
definitely will challenge my MP after election (doesn't matter if he will be back of another one).
Will investigate possibility of women's right campaigners, thank you for suggestion (human's right campaigners wouldn't work as I called them earlier, they don't think it's discriminations)
How it's sits with law - can't say, need legal advise. Good advise will cost a lot of money, I can't afford.
But now I am looking for another suggestion maybe what you said before, change application to my maiden name. One think, I don't want to change numerous of documents what I already have here in UK.
Last edited by MariaD on Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Passport refused - uncancelled passport in maiden name

Post by MariaD » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:38 pm

want to add, what about to give this to newspaper?

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