PCN is similar to FPN???

Hi All,
I am new to this forum. I am going to submit my application for citizenship in couple of days. I have an appointment at NCS.
I like to clarify few things, hopefully experiences persons on this forum can help me.

1- I have a single PCN in last 12 months. When I called NCS they asked about FPN and I mentioned I got one PCN. I was asked did I challenged it in court, I said no. As this is a PCN not FPN. I did challenge my PCN to Council, but was not successful and council gave right of appeal to independent tribunal which I didn't and paid the fine. NCS guy was not aware of difference between PCN and FPN
My question is that I just need to mention the PCN number only or need to provide all details as here no court is involved and it was not challenged in court as mentioned in AN form guidlines.
I have put only PCN number on extra information page and will take the letter with me to NCS.
Will it be a problem?? (There is no other PCN or FPN except this one). I am full time employed for last 6 years without any break, so employment section will be fine.
Looking forward to your reply,
david

my husband got a PCN from the council, challenged it but ended up paying the fine anyway. only had this 1 in this country. NCS told us he didnt need to declare it.

MAL73 wrote:Hi All,
I am new to this forum. I am going to submit my application for citizenship in couple of days. I have an appointment at NCS.
I like to clarify few things, hopefully experiences persons on this forum can help me.

1- I have a single PCN in last 12 months. When I called NCS they asked about FPN and I mentioned I got one PCN. I was asked did I challenged it in court, I said no. As this is a PCN not FPN. I did challenge my PCN to Council, but was not successful and council gave right of appeal to independent tribunal which I didn't and paid the fine. NCS guy was not aware of difference between PCN and FPN
My question is that I just need to mention the PCN number only or need to provide all details as here no court is involved and it was not challenged in court as mentioned in AN form guidlines.
I have put only PCN number on extra information page and will take the letter with me to NCS.
Will it be a problem?? (There is no other PCN or FPN except this one). I am full time employed for last 6 years without any break, so employment section will be fine.
Looking forward to your reply,
david

Read from Q5 in this post.

Read from Q5 in this post.[/quote]

Thanks for reply, Q5 clearly distinguish between FPN and PCN. It says it is your option whether you declare a PCN or not????

See the new AN GUIDE MAY 2015 in GOOD CHARACTER Chapter It is different from past now and ask to provide details, but nothing mentioned about challenging it.

3.1 – 3.2 You must give details of all criminal convictions both within and outside the
United Kingdom. These include road traffic offences. Fixed penalty notices (such as
speeding or parking tickets) must be disclosed, although will not normally be taken
into account unless:
• you have failed to pay and there were criminal proceedings as a result; or
• you have received numerous fixed penalty notices.

Based on this, I would say we should declare our PCN and FPN, only issue will be for the person who got too many. I am not sure councils keep record of all PCN and how long. Better to provide details for last 5 years, otherwise they can take it as a deception.
In both cases, applicants will be on their mecry
I submitted my application today and the person from NCS asked me to mention it on further information page (now page 24, previously page 23). He took a copy of PCN and attached it. He called Home office and he was told one PCN or FPN in last 12 months is OK.

MAL73 wrote: Thanks for reply, Q5 clearly distinguish between FPN and PCN. It says it is your option whether you declare a PCN or not????

Its up to you, really, just to reiterate.

Q5 - FPN

A FPN (often given for minor motoring offences such as speeding) is not a conviction and will not be grounds for refusal unless the applicant has received numerous FPNs in the last 12 months. Therefore, you should wait until you have no more one FPN in the last 12 months before applying.

If you go to court for a FPN because you do not pay the fine or you challenge the FPN and the FPN is upheld (found guilty) this will then be classed as a conviction and may lead to (at a minimum) a refusal for 3 years.

Note: penalty charge notices and notices for disorder (PCN/PND) may be considered as a FPN for the purpose of ‘Good Character’ as per section 3.7 in form AN. However, a PCN/PND should have no bearing on the application unless PCNs/PNDs are numerous. There is no specific requirement to declare a PCN.

Now, look at your own copied para, it says to declare all FPN's. Here it is, highlighted:

3.1 – 3.2 You must give details of all criminal convictions both within and outside the United Kingdom. These include road traffic offences. Fixed penalty notices (such as speeding or parking tickets) must be disclosed, although will not normally be taken into account unless:

• you have failed to pay and there were criminal proceedings as a result; or
• you have received numerous fixed penalty notices.

So you disclose any FPN's, but not PCN's, because FPN is a criminal notice, however PCN's are civil matter. So unless your civil behaviour is so bad, that you have many PCN's, then you might have a problem, but there is no mention of declaring any civil PCN's.

Also, read this AA link saying exactly the same thing:

Most parking/waiting restrictions in the UK are now enforced as a civil rather than a criminal matter - a PCN doesn't result in a criminal record or points on your licence

Since its not a criminal matter, so it does not reflect that much on your character. Good luck.

MAL73 wrote:Hi All,
I am new to this forum. I am going to submit my application for citizenship in couple of days. I have an appointment at NCS.
I like to clarify few things, hopefully experiences persons on this forum can help me.

1- I have a single PCN in last 12 months. When I called NCS they asked about FPN and I mentioned I got one PCN. I was asked did I challenged it in court, I said no. As this is a PCN not FPN. I did challenge my PCN to Council, but was not successful and council gave right of appeal to independent tribunal which I didn't and paid the fine. NCS guy was not aware of difference between PCN and FPN
My question is that I just need to mention the PCN number only or need to provide all details as here no court is involved and it was not challenged in court as mentioned in AN form guidlines.
I have put only PCN number on extra information page and will take the letter with me to NCS.
Will it be a problem?? (There is no other PCN or FPN except this one). I am full time employed for last 6 years without any break, so employment section will be fine.
Looking forward to your reply,
david

Sport I am new in nationality forum
By the way what is NCS and how much is their fee for processing application?

Andrewbird35 wrote:By the way what is NCS and how much is their fee for processing application?

Click here please for information. Good luck.

fwd079 wrote:

MAL73 wrote: Thanks for reply, Q5 clearly distinguish between FPN and PCN. It says it is your option whether you declare a PCN or not????

Its up to you, really, just to reiterate.

Q5 - FPN

A FPN (often given for minor motoring offences such as speeding) is not a conviction and will not be grounds for refusal unless the applicant has received numerous FPNs in the last 12 months. Therefore, you should wait until you have no more one FPN in the last 12 months before applying.

If you go to court for a FPN because you do not pay the fine or you challenge the FPN and the FPN is upheld (found guilty) this will then be classed as a conviction and may lead to (at a minimum) a refusal for 3 years.

Note: penalty charge notices and notices for disorder (PCN/PND) may be considered as a FPN for the purpose of ‘Good Character’ as per section 3.7 in form AN. However, a PCN/PND should have no bearing on the application unless PCNs/PNDs are numerous. There is no specific requirement to declare a PCN.

Now, look at your own copied para, it says to declare all FPN's. Here it is, highlighted:

3.1 – 3.2 You must give details of all criminal convictions both within and outside the United Kingdom. These include road traffic offences. Fixed penalty notices (such as speeding or parking tickets) must be disclosed, although will not normally be taken into account unless:

• you have failed to pay and there were criminal proceedings as a result; or
• you have received numerous fixed penalty notices.

So you disclose any FPN's, but not PCN's, because FPN is a criminal notice, however PCN's are civil matter. So unless your civil behaviour is so bad, that you have many PCN's, then you might have a problem, but there is no mention of declaring any civil PCN's.

Also, read this AA link saying exactly the same thing:

Most parking/waiting restrictions in the UK are now enforced as a civil rather than a criminal matter - a PCN doesn't result in a criminal record or points on your licence

Since its not a criminal matter, so it does not reflect that much on your character. Good luck.

Thank you for the clarification. Based on the above advise I will not mention this (as my husband does have one PCN (parking on non parking area), challenged this with the council - council didn't agree and he paid the fine on time, with the discount).

I do understand the confusion; as it's not required to disclose PCN's - but how can they be considered as FPN?
I think I'm more concerned about the fact that the HO might think that I'm withholding this information...

anyone had a rejection for not declaring a PCN ?