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Refused on 'Good Character"

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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Loniejr
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Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by Loniejr » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:30 pm

Quick question please. I have just had my application for naturalization turned down because of falling foul of 'Good Character'.
I over stayed my work visa in 2003. I was granted two sets of 3 year discretionary visas and finally my ILR in Dec 2017. My over stay was not by choice but becasue I could not return to the USA. My USA passport expired in 2002 and a hold was placed on my renewal because of back child support due in the US. I could not leave the UK as my wife had just given birth to our daughter. I had spent several years in the UK courts contesting the US arrears and in 2006 an agreement was reached. It took until 2010 until my US passport was released and I could apply for my UK visa. Can you tell me if I have grounds to contest the refusal. I am a person of Good Character, I could not leave the UK and abandon my family. Surly, that shows that I am a person of Good Character and that my overstay was beyond my control. Any help would be appreciated.

4uvak
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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by 4uvak » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:08 pm

It is better to involve professional to help you with your case. If you still decide to go on your own, read here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... .0-EXT.pdf . If you decide to go for reconsideration, the form is here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... NR__v4.pdf

baddy
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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by baddy » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:46 pm

Loniejr wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:30 pm
Quick question please. I have just had my application for naturalization turned down because of falling foul of 'Good Character'.
I over stayed my work visa in 2003. I was granted two sets of 3 year discretionary visas and finally my ILR in Dec 2017. My over stay was not by choice but becasue I could not return to the USA. My USA passport expired in 2002 and a hold was placed on my renewal because of back child support due in the US. I could not leave the UK as my wife had just given birth to our daughter. I had spent several years in the UK courts contesting the US arrears and in 2006 an agreement was reached. It took until 2010 until my US passport was released and I could apply for my UK visa. Can you tell me if I have grounds to contest the refusal. I am a person of Good Character, I could not leave the UK and abandon my family. Surly, that shows that I am a person of Good Character and that my overstay was beyond my control. Any help would be appreciated.
Dont waste your money to contest this decision. You can only re-apply 10 years after your stay is regularised and you are not in breach of immigration rules and no traffic or any conviction. You did not give full information as to when you got the first 3 year discretionary visa. Count 10 years from that first visas. Then you can re-apply.

Loniejr
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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by Loniejr » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:24 pm

Thank you for your reply... as it was beyond my control
Do you think I have a chance to appeal...

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Hstepper07
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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by Hstepper07 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:47 pm

Loniejr wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:24 pm
Thank you for your reply... as it was beyond my control
Do you think I have a chance to appeal...
When was stay regularised? In my opinion, you can apply for reconsideration if the immigration breach was beyond your control. Look at discretion to waive immigration breaches on page 26. "You must only exercise discretion to disregard a period of unlawful residence if there are reasons for this which were clearly outside the applicant’s control, or if the
breach was genuinely inadvertent and short"

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... 4vNaxqvi9N

Obie
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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by Obie » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:54 pm

Did you advanced this point to them at the application stages?
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

secret.simon
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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by secret.simon » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:27 am

Loniejr wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:30 pm
a hold was placed on my renewal because of back child support due in the US.
The fact that a foreign government took the drastic step of putting your passport renewal on hold due to court proceedings does not exactly lend itself to proving you are of good character, does it?

I can't imagine an immigration judge here taking a positive view on this point.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

Loniejr
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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by Loniejr » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:13 am

Obie wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:54 pm
Did you advanced this point to them at the application stages?
No, As I had just received my ILR. Everything was disclosed then.

Loniejr
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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by Loniejr » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:18 am

secret.simon wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:27 am
Loniejr wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:30 pm
a hold was placed on my renewal because of back child support due in the US.
The fact that a foreign government took the drastic step of putting your passport renewal on hold due to court proceedings does not exactly lend itself to proving you are of good character, does it?

I can't imagine an immigration judge here taking a positive view on this point.
The hold on my passport was because of child support arrears. The arrears accrued because, I was in the middle of going to court to adjust the support payments. The hold goes on automatically when arrears go beyond $2500. I spend several months here in the UK Courts to correct the arrears and ongoing support.
and then another 4 years to get the hold released.

ouflak1
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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by ouflak1 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:02 pm

Loniejr wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:18 am
The hold on my passport was because of child support arrears. The arrears accrued because, I was in the middle of going to court to adjust the support payments. The hold goes on automatically when arrears go beyond $2500. I spend several months here in the UK Courts to correct the arrears and ongoing support.
and then another 4 years to get the hold released.
I hate to sound cruel, but that is hardly the UK's concern. Especially as it is entirely possible to get a temporary passport for these situations and straighten out your stay before it becomes an issue. You've gotten two of the best pieces of advice on this thread you are going to get in my opinion:
  • Forget about it until the Good Character requirement allows forgiveness.
  • Get a lawyer, dig into your deep pockets, and hope you can get the UK to change its mind before you would quality anyway.

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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by Obie » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:22 pm

Loniejr wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:13 am
Obie wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:54 pm
Did you advanced this point to them at the application stages?
No, As I had just received my ILR. Everything was disclosed then.
You should have addressed those matter in your application and provided those justification, then if they refused to engage them, then you have have a stronger case.

I do not agree with those that said it is not worthy of consideration, it clearly is, and goes into the heart of the case.
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

ouflak1
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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by ouflak1 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:28 pm

Obie wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:22 pm
Loniejr wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:13 am
Obie wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:54 pm
Did you advanced this point to them at the application stages?
No, As I had just received my ILR. Everything was disclosed then.
You should have addressed those matter in your application and provided those justification, then if they refused to engage them, then you have have a stronger case.

I do not agree with those that said it is not worthy of consideration, it clearly is, and goes into the heart of the case.
But the U.S. Child-Support-on-hold process provides specific facilities for obtaining an 'emergency' passport to sort these issues out stateside. While there, he presumably could have sorted out a visa. Even if he could press the point that some matters were beyond his control, that particular fact was completely within his control and weakens his case substantially. He wouldn't be allowed to work once his legal stay ceased, so there is not even an argument that he had to stay to support his partner. I try to keep an open mind on this stuff. Mistakes happen, and child support issues are especially emotional and involved. But I can't see how the UK should take that into (re)consideration for bestowing citizenship. It's really not any of the UK's concern.

Obie
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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by Obie » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:41 pm

We are not talking about taking that as a factor for bestowing citizenship. We are talking about whether that factor can be used to determine that a person is of good character. So they are 2 different things. I have no difficulty in accepting that citizenship both under Section 6(1) and 6(2), is under the absolute discretion of the Secretary of State.

If he says i was unable to regularise my stay, because to do so require a passport, which the American authorities were wrongly refusing to issue me. Therefore he may have a case.

I don't know all the facts, but on the face, the OP may have a case.

He was going through court proceeding in the UK, which he had to see to completion, and was unable to regularise his stay as the US authorities refused to issue him a passport, he clearly does have a convention claim as he was granted leave.

In all the circumstance, can it be said the person is not of good character. That is the legal question.

The court has ruled that the question of whether a person is of good character or not, involves a lot more than a tick box exercise, and all factors associated with the case must be considered.
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

Loniejr
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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by Loniejr » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:45 pm

ouflak1 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:02 pm
Loniejr wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:18 am
The hold on my passport was because of child support arrears. The arrears accrued because, I was in the middle of going to court to adjust the support payments. The hold goes on automatically when arrears go beyond $2500. I spend several months here in the UK Courts to correct the arrears and ongoing support.
and then another 4 years to get the hold released.
I hate to sound cruel, but that is hardly the UK's concern. Especially as it is entirely possible to get a temporary passport for these situations and straighten out your stay before it becomes an issue. You've gotten two of the best pieces of advice on this thread you are going to get in my opinion:
  • Forget about it until the Good Character requirement allows forgiveness.
  • Get a lawyer, dig into your deep pockets, and hope you can get the UK to change its mind before you would quality anyway.
Yes, the US does provide an emergency 'one-way' passport. As I had a wife and a newborn, the prospect of not being able to return to my family did not set well.

Loniejr
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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by Loniejr » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:48 pm

ouflak1 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:28 pm
Obie wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:22 pm
Loniejr wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:13 am
Obie wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:54 pm
Did you advanced this point to them at the application stages?
No, As I had just received my ILR. Everything was disclosed then.
You should have addressed those matter in your application and provided those justification, then if they refused to engage them, then you have have a stronger case.

I do not agree with those that said it is not worthy of consideration, it clearly is, and goes into the heart of the case.
But the U.S. Child-Support-on-hold process provides specific facilities for obtaining an 'emergency' passport to sort these issues out stateside. While there, he presumably could have sorted out a visa. Even if he could press the point that some matters were beyond his control, that particular fact was completely within his control and weakens his case substantially. He wouldn't be allowed to work once his legal stay ceased, so there is not even an argument that he had to stay to support his partner. I try to keep an open mind on this stuff. Mistakes happen, and child support issues are especially emotional and involved. But I can't see how the UK should take that into (re)consideration for bestowing citizenship. It's really not any of the UK's concern.
As I said, a oneway passport back to the US, with a wife and a newborn here in the UK, was not an option. As it stands, it took many years to get the US to release my passport. Its not 'Good Character' to abandon your family.

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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by Obie » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:49 pm

Did you attempt to apply for any form of extension of leave? How long was the overstaying for?
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

Loniejr
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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by Loniejr » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:59 pm

Obie wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:49 pm
Did you attempt to apply for any form of extension of leave? How long was the overstaying for?
My work Visa expired in 2003, My US passport expired in 2002 and I could not get it renewed as the US had put a hold on it. After all my court ordeals, I finally got the release in 2010. I applied for my marriage visa straight away, that was refused, but I as given a 3 year Discretionary Leave to Remain twice and then my ILR in 2017.

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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by Obie » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:06 pm

The period of 2003-2010 is a long period to be in the UK without status. My advise would have been to apply on human right basis, and if they refused based on passport, you will have a much stronger case.

Not having a passport does not prevent you from applying per sa. If however they refuse based on your inability to get a passport, then you have strong basis.

You cannot stay in the Country for such long time, without at least notifying the immigration authorities of your presence and seeking to renew your permission to stay. However you do not appear to have done that. You stayed 7 years without a status, and no attempt to apply for anything even without a passport.
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

Loniejr
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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by Loniejr » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:20 pm

Obie wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:06 pm
The period of 2003-2010 is a long period to be in the UK without status. My advise would have been to apply on human right basis, and if they refused based on passport, you will have a much stronger case.

Not having a passport does not prevent you from applying per sa. If however they refuse based on your inability to get a passport, then you have strong basis.

You cannot stay in the Country for such long time, without at least notifying the immigration authorities of your presence and seeking to renew your permission to stay. However you do not appear to have done that. You stayed 7 years without a status, and no attempt to apply for anything even without a passport.
So do you think I stand a chance of getting the Immigration office to reconsider.

secret.simon
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Re: Refused on 'Good Character"

Post by secret.simon » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:59 pm

Obie wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:06 pm
My advise would have been to apply on human right basis, and if they refused based on passport, you will have a much stronger case.
Obie, can you expand on how human rights could be involved with the grant of citizenship? As I understand from the thread, the OP has a US passport now and he has got settled status in the UK, which is a requirement for applying for naturalisation.

Also, is the assessment of good character justiciable and if so, is it a question of fact and what is the appropriate standard (balance of probabilities, etc)?
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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