ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

dogcat
Newly Registered
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:41 pm

tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:44 pm

Hi,

I am EU citizen who's been granted settled status. I have lived in the UK for the past 12 years without any major absences and am currently married to a British Citizen (we got married back in 2010).
I would like to apply for a British citizenship.
My concerns are as follow: I was not employed during the past three years ( only did a course which lasted from February 2017 to August 2017) and got registered as self- employed recently (May 2018)
I have not ever claimed any benefits. How do provide evidence that I was physically present in the UK during the period in question? As it is my understanding that this is likely to be problematic when applying.


Thanks for reading.

User avatar
alterhase58
Respected Guru
Posts: 2594
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:02 pm
Location: UK Bucks
Germany

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by alterhase58 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:22 pm

Do you have Permanent Residency (PR) a card or a letter stating the fact?

Employment is not a requirement for naturalisation and receiving benefits you are entitled to is not an issue.

If you can't provide P60 or employer letters then other official documents are needed. Council Tax Bills showing your name, HMRC documents, Child Benefit / pensions documents ideally.
This is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.
Please do not send me private messages asking for advice - they will be ignored

dogcat
Newly Registered
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:41 pm

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:44 pm

I have been granted 'settled status' which is tantamount to ILR or PR, HO dont issue cards, just and official letter so that shoudn't cause any problems.
I have a record of attending medical appointment so suppose that would be classed as evidence.
I dont have any children so no child benefits etc :D
Its just that gap 2017 august- to 2018 may I am worried about.

kirku
Newly Registered
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:44 pm

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by kirku » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:36 pm

My wife is also in a similar situation. Largely been looking after our young son during the qualifying period and has no stamps in her passport. Really at a loss as to what evidence to supply? HO being completely unhelpful.

To get Settled Status was quite easy and the list of evidence was clear, but for citizenship it's so vague. Does anybody have some advice for us please?

jgr100
Newly Registered
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:51 pm

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by jgr100 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:59 pm

My wife was also not working during the qualifying period. We used council tax bills covering part of the qualifying period, some letters from the NHS and a letter from the GP stating when she was registered in the GP from and a list of GP appointments. It worked as she received the approval last month.
Good luck!

dogcat
Newly Registered
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:41 pm

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:51 pm

Did she hold a 'Comprehensive Sickness Insurance' when she wasn't working?
As it still seems to be one of the prerequisites for what constitutes 'lawful residence'

Richard W
- thin ice -
Posts: 1940
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:25 am
Location: Stevenage

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by Richard W » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:52 pm

jgr100's wife already has PRC/DCPR, so not relevant.

dogcat
Newly Registered
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:41 pm

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:15 pm

Is that so? That's be brilliant news !! I too, have settled status and am married to BC, which means I could apply straight away.

It is indeed no longer relevant as when you get ILR/ PR whatever you no longer have to exercise Treaty rights (and yes, EU law still applicable :D ) but how about previous years which count as 'qualifying period' ?

Maybe I'm overthinking it and am mistaken but from what I've read that you would still need to have had a CSI (comprehensive sickness insurance) for the periods when you weren't employed/ self employed during qualifying period in order to be considered lawfully residing in the UK/in breach of immigration law.

It was definitely required under PR scheme but was scrapped when government introduced settled status scheme which made things considerably easier.

dogcat
Newly Registered
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:41 pm

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:19 pm

Just to remind you folks, I am not applying for PR/ settled status here (already have ) but Naturalisation.

Richard W
- thin ice -
Posts: 1940
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:25 am
Location: Stevenage

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by Richard W » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:48 am

dogcat wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:15 pm
Maybe I'm overthinking it and am mistaken but from what I've read that you would still need to have had a CSI (comprehensive sickness insurance) for the periods when you weren't employed/ self employed during qualifying period in order to be considered lawfully residing in the UK/in breach of immigration law.

It was definitely required under PR scheme but was scrapped when government introduced settled status scheme which made things considerably easier.
Have you actually heard of people with settled status being refused naturalisation because of the lack of CSI? I don't say it couldn't happen, merely that I haven't heard of it happening.

The relevant employment with regard to CSI is that of the sponsoring EU national when he hasn't achieved PR. For family members, the possible problem with their not being employed is that it makes it more difficult to demonstrate that they were present in the UK. There are two qualifying periods that may be discussed for those naturalising on the basis of being settled through the EU settlement scheme - the 5 years to qualify for settled status, and the 5 (occasionally 3) years preceding the application. The two periods are usually different - usually the overlap is no more than 4 years.

dogcat
Newly Registered
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:41 pm

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:46 am

No, I haven't. Its just I just want gather all the information available and then decide whats the best course of action .


I was granted settled status in May 2019 no problem .
In my understanding the qualifying period for the purposes of naturalisation is 3 years in my case (since I am spouse of a British Citizen and can apply immediately after being granted settled status)
I was doing a vocational course from feb 2017- august 2017. Therefore a student or a self sufficient person
aug 2017- april 2018 -wasn't doing anything. During that whole period ( feb217-april2018) I wasn't holding a CSI and was being supported by my husband who was employed and provided for me.
Then in april 2018 I registered myself as self employed so that's fine (still am and pay my taxes etc) so thats fine.

All in all : for the portion of my qualifying period period (2017- april2018 ) I was 'self sufficient' but didn't have CIS. And that could potentially be regarded as 'unlawful residence' since I wasn't properly exercising the treaty rights. And 'lawfull residence' is one of the prerequisites of naturalisation.

Sorry for if its a bit long and convoluted :)

User avatar
alterhase58
Respected Guru
Posts: 2594
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:02 pm
Location: UK Bucks
Germany

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by alterhase58 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:51 am

It's not unlawful residence if you didn't have CSI - this would/might only be an issue if you were to apply for a document certifying PR under EU regulations. You are relying on UK immigration rules (Settled Status) which has no requirement for CSI.
This is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.
Please do not send me private messages asking for advice - they will be ignored

dogcat
Newly Registered
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:41 pm

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:58 am

That's great news, thank you ever so much guys .
Irony of ironies, Brexit actually made it easier :D

Richard W
- thin ice -
Posts: 1940
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:25 am
Location: Stevenage

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by Richard W » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:08 pm

alterhase58 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:51 am
It's not unlawful residence if you didn't have CSI - this would/might only be an issue if you were to apply for a document certifying PR under EU regulations. You are relying on UK immigration rules (Settled Status) which has no requirement for CSI.
The requirement is that during the preceding 3 years dogcat not have been 'in breach of the immigration laws'. I believe she was not in breach of the immigration laws because she had already achieved PR. If she had not achieved PR, how would she not have been 'in breach of the immigration laws'? The relevant provision is BNA 1981 Section 50A(4)(e):
A person is in the United Kingdom in breach of the immigration laws if (and only if) the person— ... (e) is not entitled to reside in the United Kingdom by virtue of any provision made under section 2(2) of the European Communities Act 1972 (whether or not the person was previously entitled);
If not by virtue of already holding PR, what provision do you suggest covers her?

Note that it is possible to be lawfully present while still being 'in breach of the immigration laws'. It's a horribly misleading phrase.

dogcat
Newly Registered
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:41 pm

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:44 pm

I have never achieved PR under the 'old' scheme, but was granted settled status which dos not require CSI.

So since I took a settled status route (which does not require CSI) and will be relying on it when applying for naturalisation is it the case that HO will be disregarding it too ?

Richard W
- thin ice -
Posts: 1940
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:25 am
Location: Stevenage

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by Richard W » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:28 pm

dogcat wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:44 pm
So since I took a settled status route (which does not require CSI) and will be relying on it when applying for naturalisation is it the case that HO will be disregarding it too ?
But you only joined that route when you were granted settled status. Until then, your status for nationality law depended on the EEA Regulations.

I don't know what the HO will do. At one extreme, they might disregard the need for CSI; at the other, they might insist that you cannot apply until 10 years after you became self-employed.

jgr100
Newly Registered
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:51 pm

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by jgr100 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:29 pm

dogcat wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:44 pm
I have never achieved PR under the 'old' scheme, but was granted settled status which dos not require CSI.

So since I took a settled status route (which does not require CSI) and will be relying on it when applying for naturalisation is it the case that HO will be disregarding it too ?
If you were working for the first 9 years, you probably did achieve PR (after year 5) even if you did not apply for a document certifying PR, which you would also would have probably been able to get even if you did not have CSI the last three years.

You also would not have needed CSI, even if not working, if your spouse was an EEA citizen exercising treaty rights.

In any case, that is not a requirement for your naturalsation application, and as I mentioned in a previous post, you can use other documents to prove residency in the UK over the last 3 years.

dogcat
Newly Registered
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:41 pm

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:37 pm

I was never employed/self employed for 5 years continuously during the years I've spent in the UK as mainly studied (and never held CSI).

Yes, my spouse was working and did support me. But does British citizen working in the UK (his home country) constitute 'exercising treaty rights'?

Richard W
- thin ice -
Posts: 1940
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:25 am
Location: Stevenage

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by Richard W » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:54 pm

dogcat wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:37 pm
Yes, my spouse was working and did support me. But does British citizen working in the UK (his home country) constitute 'exercising treaty rights'?
As you seem to have lived together only in the UK, no, I'm afraid you can't use Surinder Singh, (There's nothing in Surinder Singh that restricts it to non-EEA family members.)

dogcat
Newly Registered
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:41 pm

Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:15 pm

I think I ought to seek some professional advice as from what I've read experiences seem to differ/conflict :D

Worst case scenario I'll wait till next year so my qualifying period is fully covered.

Post Reply
cron