Turning British in China

Hello, long time lurker here,

I have just moved back to China long term. I hold a Chinese passport. I will be attending my naturalization ceremony in the UK soon to become a UK citizen and then travel back to China. (Unfortunately the naturalisation invitation came in late due to some Home Office hiccups so I did not get it done before I left the UK).

The plan is to apply for a passport in China, and once it arrives, to travel back to the UK to apply for a Chinese visa in my UK passport and then return as a UK citizen with a Chinese visa.

I have a few questions, if anyone has gone through this before or has advice.

1) Does it matter if I apply for a passport abroad? Are passport interviews common if I were to apply in the UK?
2) Are passports being issued in good time right now - 4 weeks?
3) Will the Chinese embassy refuse a visa if my passport has not been cancelled (will they know?).
4) Can I apply for a Chinese visa from inside china after changing nationality? Should I hop over to a neighbouring country with visa-free travel to sort it out?

- My current long-term employer is a UK institution and the work permit processing will be handled by them.
- Chinese rules require relinquishing Chinese nationality

Please PM me if you would rather not share on the open forum!

Frank5 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:45 pm

1) Does it matter if I apply for a passport abroad? Are passport interviews common if I were to apply in the UK?

Bad idea.

Keep in mind that one requirement or naturalisation as a British citizen is that you intend to reside in the UK. If your very first act as a British citizen is to move abroad and apply for your first British passport from abroad, HMPO will flag that to the Home Office to look into whether you did actually meet the requirements for naturalisation and whether to revoke the naturalisation. From memory, there has been at least one such case on these forums and probably more.

You'd want to apply for your first passport from within the UK. And to do that, you'd need to send in all your non-cancelled passports (whether current or expired). Thus travel abroad may not be possible in that time period.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 22, 2024 5:57 pm

Frank5 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:45 pm

1) Does it matter if I apply for a passport abroad? Are passport interviews common if I were to apply in the UK?

Bad idea.

Keep in mind that one requirement or naturalisation as a British citizen is that you intend to reside in the UK. If your very first act as a British citizen is to move abroad and apply for your first British passport from abroad, HMPO will flag that to the Home Office to look into whether you did actually meet the requirements for naturalisation and whether to revoke the naturalisation. From memory, there has been at least one such case on these forums and probably more.

You'd want to apply for your first passport from within the UK. And to do that, you'd need to send in all your non-cancelled passports (whether current or expired). Thus travel abroad may not be possible in that time period.

Applying from overseas is a well documented route in the website, so I am surprised that you have called it out as risky and did not realise that it could still be undone at this stage. Is applying for a passport not a routine process? Am I not a citizen once naturalised?

I still have properties in the UK and an intention to return. I am in China whilst a parent undergoes cancer treatment. I have previously been granted a timeline extension for the naturalisation by the HO due to this issue.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 22, 2024 5:57 pm

Frank5 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:45 pm

1) Does it matter if I apply for a passport abroad? Are passport interviews common if I were to apply in the UK?

Bad idea.

Keep in mind that one requirement or naturalisation as a British citizen is that you intend to reside in the UK. If your very first act as a British citizen is to move abroad and apply for your first British passport from abroad, HMPO will flag that to the Home Office to look into whether you did actually meet the requirements for naturalisation and whether to revoke the naturalisation. From memory, there has been at least one such case on these forums and probably more.

You'd want to apply for your first passport from within the UK. And to do that, you'd need to send in all your non-cancelled passports (whether current or expired). Thus travel abroad may not be possible in that time period.

Applying from overseas is a well documented route in the website, so I am surprised that you have called it out as risky and did not realise that it could still be undone at this stage. Is applying for a passport not a routine process? Am I not a citizen once naturalised?

I still have properties in the UK and an intention to return. I am in China whilst a parent undergoes cancer treatment. I have previously been granted a timeline extension for the naturalisation by the HO due to this issue.

Frank5 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:06 am

Applying from overseas is a well documented route in the website, so I am surprised that you have called it out as risky and did not realise that it could still be undone at this stage. Is applying for a passport not a routine process? Am I not a citizen once naturalised?

Is applying for a passport abroad a routine process? Yes.

Will a first British passport for a naturalised British citizen, soon after the citizenship ceremony, attract additional scrutiny? Also, yes.

As mentioned above, naturalisation has the requirement (something that other forms of acquisition of British citizenship does not have) that one intends to reside in the UK. If one's first act after naturalising is to leave the UK, that brings that intent, and thus the entire naturalisation application, into question. And making a first British passport application from abroad within weeks of the citizenship ceremony flags that to the attention of the HMPO and Home Office.

Frank5 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:06 am

I still have properties in the UK and an intention to return. I am in China whilst a parent undergoes cancer treatment. I have previously been granted a timeline extension for the naturalisation by the HO due to this issue.

Then it would just cause a long delay in your first British passport application as you give the explanation above to the Home Office and HMPO and they reassess your application.

At the very least, your application will be scrutinised more thoroughly and that can lead to delays.

Again, this has been reported by at least one user on these forums, so all I can suggest is tread carefully and beware of delays caused by your choices.

If you don't want to keep your Chinese nationality as many other people do, you should apply for a Chinese visa in the UK.

From the moment you finish your ceremony you are British citizen. If you want to return to China with a British passport you have to apply for a visa in the UK.

You can travel back to China with your Chinese passport and apply for a British passport there, but it's technically illegal and not recommended if you don't have an idea of what you are going to do next.

When you apply for your Chinese visa first time you have to submit your Chinese passport and naturalisation certificate. Your Chinese passport will be cancelled. They will check if you have ever travelled to China with your Chinese passport after your naturalisation date. If you do, you might be banned for 10 years.

You cannot apply for a visa in China but you can extend it or switch.

Instead of applying for a British passport you can think about getting a CoE ROA.

I don't think OP can keep Chinese nationality, as China doesn't allow dual nationality. I also imagine that the Chinese embassy will ask you to cancel your Chinese passport when you apply for your first visa, see eg british-citizenship/naturalization-cert ... 42654.html

SupperDog wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 4:43 am

Instead of applying for a British passport you can think about getting a CoE ROA.

A CoE-RoA is stamped in the non-British passport of a dual British/non-British citizen and is only valid for the life of that passport.

If the OP is not allowed to become a dual citizen (due to Chinese law), that approach may not work.

Thank you all for your input and highlighting the complexities involved. I will carefully consider my next steps. I will apply for my first passport in the UK.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:17 am

SupperDog wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 4:43 am

Instead of applying for a British passport you can think about getting a CoE ROA.

A CoE-RoA is stamped in the non-British passport of a dual British/non-British citizen and is only valid for the life of that passport.

If the OP is not allowed to become a dual citizen (due to Chinese law), that approach may not work.

CoE-RoA works in China because how the Chinese border force works has some defects. CoE is very important to Chinese people. Yes it is illegal but it works and most of British-Chinese know how to use it properly to keep both nationality.

SupperDog wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 4:43 am

They will check if you have ever travelled to China with your Chinese passport after your naturalisation date. If you do, you might be banned for 10 years.

You cannot apply for a visa in China but you can extend it or switch.

Could you provide the basis for the 10 year ban? That sounds like a big risk.

So it would be best to to re-enter China on a family visa in my UK passport and then convert it to another one.

Long term I intend to stay in the UK, it's just that unfortunately at this point I need to be around for pallative care for my parent. Not sure if this is acceptable from HO point-of-view, as the linked thread also seemed to have a similar issue.

SupperDog wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:13 pm

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:17 am

SupperDog wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 4:43 am

Instead of applying for a British passport you can think about getting a CoE ROA.

A CoE-RoA is stamped in the non-British passport of a dual British/non-British citizen and is only valid for the life of that passport.

If the OP is not allowed to become a dual citizen (due to Chinese law), that approach may not work.

CoE-RoA works in China because how the Chinese border force works has some defects. CoE is very important to Chinese people. Yes it is illegal but it works and most of British-Chinese know how to use it properly to keep both nationality.

I wouldn't offer advice that is illegal or works on flaws of another country's system as that may put applicants at great risk.

contorted_svy wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:56 pm

SupperDog wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:13 pm

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:17 am

SupperDog wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 4:43 am

Instead of applying for a British passport you can think about getting a CoE ROA.

A CoE-RoA is stamped in the non-British passport of a dual British/non-British citizen and is only valid for the life of that passport.

If the OP is not allowed to become a dual citizen (due to Chinese law), that approach may not work.

CoE-RoA works in China because how the Chinese border force works has some defects. CoE is very important to Chinese people. Yes it is illegal but it works and most of British-Chinese know how to use it properly to keep both nationality.

I wouldn't offer advice that is illegal or works on flaws of another country's system as that may put applicants at great risk.

I appreciate that there are ways to go about it, but it is not something I wish to pursue at this time.

Frank5 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:36 pm

SupperDog wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 4:43 am

They will check if you have ever travelled to China with your Chinese passport after your naturalisation date. If you do, you might be banned for 10 years.

You cannot apply for a visa in China but you can extend it or switch.

Could you provide the basis for the 10 year ban? That sounds like a big risk.

So it would be best to to re-enter China on a family visa in my UK passport and then convert it to another one.

Long term I intend to stay in the UK, it's just that unfortunately at this point I need to be around for pallative care for my parent. Not sure if this is acceptable from HO point-of-view, as the linked thread also seemed to have a similar issue.

It's better not to discuss anything related to China here. The immigration rules of China are imperfect and the enforcement and practice are also different in different cities. Also, xxx and xxx are 2 different things as well.

It's better to find a Chinese forum and ask there if you want to keep both, if not, the only legal way for you is: come back to the UK, attend the ceremony, apply for a British passport, apply for a Chinese visa and cancel your Chinese passport, fly to China, renounce your Chinese citizenship, cancel your xxx

You won't be allowed to leave China at the airport if you don't have the documents to prove that you have cancelled your xxx next time, so make sure you bring it.